Belichick says Jackson is day-to-day

[Urgent]

With the very limited success of our WRs, (think of the number we've brought in that have tanked) I'm starting to think that WR coaching might be part of the problem.

Blame the coaches?

Point to the receivers the Patriots brought in through free agency, paid as average starters, who under-performed.

Donald Hayes? Marginal guy, $500K salary. Pats got what they paid for.
Patten came in and performed well as a vet free agent. At $600K salary, he outperformed his contract.
Shawn Jefferson probably outperformed his contract.
David Terrell was a cast-off the Pats tried a no-risk veteran min deal on. Got what they paid for.
JJ Stokes was the same thing, an in-season vet min guy.
Dwight certainly performed up to his contract.
Andre Davis contributed about what you'd expect from a guy at his salary level.

Rookie development?
Two recent examples of Day One rookies: Branch and Johnson. Hitting on 50% is very good for the second round. Getting a top 20 receiver and a decent special teams guy developed out of two second rounders is an example of good coaching and selection.
Then you have Givens, who far exceeded his draft ranking.
PK Sam is no surprise for a late round guy.
Getting one starter out of two six/seven round picks is excellent.

There are two problems.
One is that the Patriots place their value on a player, and don't budge. Good strategy overall. However, it's not obvious that the Patriots adjusted those values to the new cap.
Second is that the Patriots place no obvious value on continuity and relationship with the QB. Apparently, one 5-11, 4.5 speed, 60 catch-a-year guy is as good as the next. They are fungible commodities. However, the guy who knows your QB and your system clearly has more value to you. You wouldn't turn over five of six receivers unless you thought this way. If your #2 leaves seven minutes into free agency, and your #1 is holding out, you might want to hold on to your #4 and #5 just for some continuity.

 

[soxpatsbscs]

He better play or we're screwed.

 

[Born_a_Patriot]

During his press briefing, I think Mr Jackson has taken Bethal's place this yr in the doggie house..

Funny you should say that

Until proven otherwise Chad Jackson = Bethel Johnson

 

[Pat_Nasty]

I agree with a lot of your posts, BF80, but here I have to disagree. The position is prone to failure, the personalities involved are me-first, and the organization has misfired several times on good signings (Mason and Stallworth come to mind).

It's early to be blaming Daboll or Brady for a problem that takes time to solve. I do blame the FO for not planning ahead and better understanding Deion's state of mind. But if WR is still suspect this week, I'd give it a pass for a few more weeks.

I agree that the WR position is a tricky one, both in terms of drafting and FA acquistions. I disagree, however, that the Pats "misfired" on both Mason and Stallworth. The Pats made a very competitve offer for Mason, and actually thought they had landed him -- Baltimore beat us out because they were, frankly, more desperate for a WR.

As for Stallworth -- the Pats had made an offer to New Orleans, but couldn't really compete with Philly, who had a starting-calibur LB (Simoneau) to spare.

As for the position coaching: we've wrung our hands a bit about duds like B. Johnson and P.K. Sam, a 2nd and 5th rounder, but remember we also had hits on Branch and Givens, a 2nd and 7th rounder.

Overall, our coaches have seemingly done a good job with the kids.

And you can't fault them for our modest returns on FA WRs -- they fall primarily in the "limited risk, limited reward" category. When you're signing mostly scrap-heep guys, you can't expect to hit on more than 1 out of 6.

 

[Brownfan80]

Blame the coaches?

Point to the receivers the Patriots brought in through free agency, paid as average starters, who under-performed.

Donald Hayes? Marginal guy, $500K salary. Pats got what they paid for.
Patten came in and performed well as a vet free agent. At $600K salary, he outperformed his contract.
Shawn Jefferson probably outperformed his contract.
David Terrell was a cast-off the Pats tried a no-risk veteran min deal on. Got what they paid for.
JJ Stokes was the same thing, an in-season vet min guy.
Dwight certainly performed up to his contract.
Andre Davis contributed about what you'd expect from a guy at his salary level.

Rookie development?
Two recent examples of Day One rookies: Branch and Johnson. Hitting on 50% is very good for the second round. Getting a top 20 receiver and a decent special teams guy developed out of two second rounders is an example of good coaching and selection.
Then you have Givens, who far exceeded his draft ranking.
PK Sam is no surprise for a late round guy.
Getting one starter out of two six/seven round picks is excellent.

There are two problems.
One is that the Patriots place their value on a player, and don't budge. Good strategy overall. However, it's not obvious that the Patriots adjusted those values to the new cap.
Second is that the Patriots place no obvious value on continuity and relationship with the QB. Apparently, one 5-11, 4.5 speed, 60 catch-a-year guy is as good as the next. They are fungible commodities. However, the guy who knows your QB and your system clearly has more value to you. You wouldn't turn over five of six receivers unless you thought this way. If your #2 leaves seven minutes into free agency, and your #1 is holding out, you might want to hold on to your #4 and #5 just for some continuity.

Patsfan37 already put me in my place about that post, but I do appreciate the further expansion of the explaination as to why I was off base. Very interesting information.

 

[SVN]

peter king was on WEEI and was asked about jackson, he felt from other team sources who talked with jackson during the draft that he was down in their draft because of some readiness to play in the nfl mentally...paraphrasing here but he got the gist of him being mentally immature yet from talking to a few people - FWIW

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

It is day to day when the Pats will get a legit reciever in their offense.

 

[DESERTPAT]

2010? Dang!

Yeah I haven't seen that Ad since I don't have NFL Network. Bummer for me.

I've seen the NFL Replay Ad with him in it over and over though, but I can't get sick of that one: The blonde chick to the right of Johnson during his part is too hot for me to get sick of.

Oh Yeah, i'm eyeing her also to bad i'm old enough to be her grand pappy!

 

[soxpatsbscs]

I totally agree that the Pats system of evaluating a player is dated, much like the minimum wage. I still have faith, but they seem to lose out on players to teams like Denver all the time and have suffered because of it. When you have a Tom Brady the future is now. Spend the god damn money.

 

[captain stone]

There are two problems.
One is that the Patriots place their value on a player, and don't budge. Good strategy overall. However, it's not obvious that the Patriots adjusted those values to the new cap.
Second is that the Patriots place no obvious value on continuity and relationship with the QB. Apparently, one 5-11, 4.5 speed, 60 catch-a-year guy is as good as the next. They are fungible commodities. However, the guy who knows your QB and your system clearly has more value to you. You wouldn't turn over five of six receivers unless you thought this way. If your #2 leaves seven minutes into free agency, and your #1 is holding out, you might want to hold on to your #4 and #5 just for some continuity.

You are correct, sir. The FO should have secured a legitimate #2 WR during the FA period; it is uncertain, however, if the FO upwardly adjusted, by the required 20%, their value placement for a #2 WR. And, if for no other reason than for the sake of some semblance of continuity, Tim Dwight and, to a lesser degree, Andre Davis should have been re-signed. Dwight especially is a slam-dunk no-brainer; that his re-signing did not occur still dismays me. I know that he and Davis are not playing much for the Jest and Bills, but I don't care.

 

[captain stone]

I totally agree that the Pats system of evaluating a player is dated, much like the minimum wage. I still have faith, but they seem to lose out on players to teams like Denver all the time and have suffered because of it. When you have a Tom Brady the future is now. Spend the god damn money.

Amen, brother.

Unfortunately, the future has to be next year. Lesson learned, hopefully.

 

[zippo59]

Amen, brother.

Unfortunately, the future has to be next year. Lesson learned, hopefully.

So that's it?

Our season is over and we should just pack it in now?

 

[soxpatsbscs]

Season is not over, but the team has serious holes that could've been fixed if the FO was a bit more flexible. Also, the media is all over the Pats for the Branch situation and Brady's struggles, saying basically the Patriots are cheap and are finally suffering because of it. That can be used against the Pats by any team trying to negotiate with a player that might go to the Pats. Just say "Well, we all know how the Patriots treat their players monetarily," and the player will know their reputation and think twice. And why woulnd't a player go for more money in a league where contracts get voided when you get injured? If I were a pro, I certainly would play elsewhere. It's my body getting crushed out there and if you want to lowball me, well f you. They even lowballed Brady for god's sake. Brady could've got 20mill per season by another team. This combined with the highest ticket prices, which IMO has killed their fan base at games, and you've got a damn good reason to be angry. If Brady ever got hurt, God forbid, this team would become a 6-10 team at best and no one would want any part of them. When you're on top you do whatever the hell it takes to stay there. Have they done that?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Season is not over, but the team has serious holes that could've been fixed if the FO was a bit more flexible. Also, the media is all over the Pats for the Branch situation and Brady's struggles, When you're on top you do whatever the hell it takes to stay there. Have they done that?

Let me be the first to tell you that you should stick to opining on the 'Desperate Housewives' Sox.

 

[zippo59]

I don't see how not making Brady grossly overpaid is "lowballing" him.

 

[soxpatsbscs]

Overpaying Brady? I'd say his fair market value is at least 15 mill per season, which almost any team would've given him. I think what Brady did was honorable but the FO has not done much in return. I in no way think that they've done this on purpose to save money, but I think they have not modified their evaluation process enough to stay competitive in the FA market.

 

[soxpatsbscs]

WickedPissah, the Sox thing is tired. And I still love the Pats and fully realize that this FO has done great things and given us all 3 years of glory, which is an unbelievable rarity especially in the cap era. That being said, I still think the Pats have made some errors in judgement.

 

[TheBostonStraggler]

Isn't it a bit presumptuous to be labeling Jackson the next Bethel Johnson?

Ummm, you obviously have not been around the average fan. I mean come on, our season is over and BB and co. have no idea what they are doing. Didn't you see last Sunday's week 3 game??

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

WickedPissah, the Sox thing is tired. And I still love the Pats and fully realize that this FO has done great things and given us all 3 years of glory, which is an unbelievable rarity especially in the cap era. That being said, I still think the Pats have made some errors in judgement.

Tired, yet oh so true.

 

[T-ShirtDynasty]

Cripes Pissah... don't feed it!