Belichick: Most Important Defensive Stat is Points Allowed

[Ring 6]

so other team has BBs and Pats consistency...not sure how much this talks to great defenses really

Ranked 2nd in the most important defensive category over a period of time certainly speaks to the quality of the defense being played.
You can carve out virtually any timeframe and it is similar.

 

[fightingirish595]

This is probably the most successful run in NFL history.
This teams doesn't have any 'problem for a very long time'.
You seem to not understand that the average NFL team is completing 23 passes every game, and getting sacked less than 3 times, and suddenly expect the Patriots to have a pass rush that never allows the other team to complete a pass. You are looking at the pinnacle of success and complaining because you wish it was something that is totally unrealistic. Cliches like defense wins championships are not an argument, by the way.
Yeah, I guess we agree to disagree because I don't believe you will ever get it.

1st sentence is a fact. for your 2nd sentence, thats an absurd statement. The team lacked a pass rush for multiple years. (mainly from 2009-2011)Thats a long time in a sport. The rest of your post is complete absurdity as your taking what I have said and either twisting it or making assumptions off of it

 

[Ring 6]

1st sentence is a fact. for your 2nd sentence, thats an absurd statement. The team lacked a pass rush for multiple years. (mainly from 2009-2011)Thats a long time in a sport. The rest of your post is complete absurdity as your taking what I have said and either twisting it or making assumptions off of it

Wait. Now you are saying that when you say this team has had a problem for a very long time, you mean 3 seasons, 5-7 years ago, one of which they went to the SB?
By the way they were ranked 14th in sacks in both 2010 and 2011.

 

[fightingirish595]

Wait. Now you are saying that when you say this team has had a problem for a very long time, you mean 3 seasons, 5-7 years ago, one of which they went to the SB?
By the way they were ranked 14th in sacks in both 2010 and 2011.

They went to a superbowl, great, we all love that. they Still had flaws, teams that win it still have flaws, so they try to get better the next year to either stay on top or get to the top. And yes 3 years is a long time in sports. And seriously, Aare you actually trying to tell me that they either had a good pass rush or that it was not a problem in 2010 or 2011

 

[The Brandon Five]

Ah, yes. They lost a game, therefore third-down D is more important than points. I'm sure the loss had nothing to do with Crumpler dropping an easy TD or Brady running for his life. Or the Jets playing out of their minds for a day.

Or unnecessarily benching Welker for the first offensive series.

 

[The Brandon Five]

I like the last point because this reminds me of the 2nd half of the Miami game where people were going crazy because we could not stop Miami. But it was obvious we were just trying to get out of there with a wn. Trading Yards for time. And i Like the poimt you made about the fluke. Turnovers will greatly knock down PPG. At the end of the day I let my eyes form my opinion. And use the stats to back up my argument.

I get your point, but if that were the case we should have been in dime inviting Miami to run, not playing soft zone and giving up 25-yard pass plays.

 

[fnordcircle]

What an idiot. SACKS, BILL. SACKS ARE ALL THAT MATTER

 

[Ring 6]

They went to a superbowl, great, we all love that. they Still had flaws, teams that win it still have flaws, so they try to get better the next year to either stay on top or get to the top. And yes 3 years is a long time in sports. And seriously, Aare you actually trying to tell me that they either had a good pass rush or that it was not a problem in 2010 or 2011

Yes I am seriously telling you that because it was an average pass rush.
Your expectations of a pass rush are grossly unrealistic.

 

[Ring 6]

They went to a superbowl, great, we all love that. they Still had flaws, teams that win it still have flaws, so they try to get better the next year to either stay on top or get to the top. And yes 3 years is a long time in sports. And seriously, Aare you actually trying to tell me that they either had a good pass rush or that it was not a problem in 2010 or 2011

Perhaps we can find a new coach who will be more to your liking and get us stats that make you feel good rather than going to the super bowl.

 

[letekro]

Pts allowed is all that matters at the end of the day, but maybe yards allowed is a better predictor of performance? For example, assume Team A gives up 200 yards/game and 16 ppg while Team B gives up 300 yards/game and 15 ppg, because Team B has better red zone D or causes more turnovers. Wouldn't you rather have Team A's defense in a future game because it is less dependent on getting red zone stops and forcing turnovers? Of course, there are other factors which might color your judgment, including whether Team B gives up most of its yards after it is way ahead.

 

[fightingirish595]

Yes I am seriously telling you that because it was an average pass rush.
Your expectations of a pass rush are grossly unrealistic.

You do not even know what my expectations are. And you can believe what you want based on sack numbers, but based on what I saw those seasons, I wasnt seeing much of one.

Perhaps we can find a new coach who will be more to your liking and get us stats that make you feel good rather than going to the super bowl.

I would rather have the guy who got us 4 rings. Im merely pointing out flaws in teams that came up short because its those flaws that have kept our team and other teams that have had the same flaws from winning. Teams that do not get after the passer usually dont win in january and february. So far their has been an inconsistant pass rush which has led to bad 3rd down numbers. you can talk about the number 1 scoring defense all you want. Neither me or you or anyone else knows if thats going to hold up in the playoffs. You are taking my analysis on something and assuming I have some absurd expectations, It is utterly ridiculous

 

[Ring 6]

You do not even know what my expectations are. And you can believe what you want based on sack numbers, but based on what I saw those seasons, I wasnt seeing much of one.



I would rather have the guy who got us 4 rings. Im merely pointing out flaws in teams that came up short because its those flaws that have kept our team and other teams that have had the same flaws from winning. Teams that do not get after the passer usually dont win in january and february. So far their has been an inconsistant pass rush which has led to bad 3rd down numbers. you can talk about the number 1 scoring defense all you want. Neither me or you or anyone else knows if thats going to hold up in the playoffs. You are taking my analysis on something and assuming I have some absurd expectations, It is utterly ridiculous

OK, so a defense that doesn't allow points can not be expected to keep that up but a defense that rushes the passer better but lets up more points is better and will magically do better in the playoffs. So it doesn't matter if that team can stop the run, or cover, or adapt its gameplan to the opponent, or make a play in the clutch. If your eyes see a pass rush while allowing more points, that is a better defense to you than one that plays a different style and allows fewer points.
Its almost like saying the teams with exciting offenses that lose are better than the ones with dull offenses that win.

 

[BTTA]

You do not even know what my expectations are. And you can believe what you want based on sack numbers, but based on what I saw those seasons, I wasnt seeing much of one.

I would rather have the guy who got us 4 rings. Im merely pointing out flaws in teams that came up short because its those flaws that have kept our team and other teams that have had the same flaws from winning. Teams that do not get after the passer usually dont win in january and february. So far their has been an inconsistant pass rush which has led to bad 3rd down numbers. you can talk about the number 1 scoring defense all you want. Neither me or you or anyone else knows if thats going to hold up in the playoffs. You are taking my analysis on something and assuming I have some absurd expectations, It is utterly ridiculous

Please keep in mind that one SB victory every 32 years is average. E V E R Y 32 Y E A R S.

Going three years without a top 10 pass rush, as measured by a statistic the coach doesn't consider critical, does not define a long term problem. It defines a small issue inside an unprecedented run of success.

 

[fightingirish595]

OK, so a defense that doesn't allow points can not be expected to keep that up but a defense that rushes the passer better but lets up more points is better and will magically do better in the playoffs. So it doesn't matter if that team can stop the run, or cover, or adapt its gameplan to the opponent, or make a play in the clutch. If your eyes see a pass rush while allowing more points, that is a better defense to you than one that plays a different style and allows fewer points.
Its almost like saying the teams with exciting offenses that lose are better than the ones with dull offenses that win.

No they shouldnt be expected to do that against better competition. besides teams get hot and cold all the time. Giants defense in 2011 played way better in the playoffs than regular season. Same with the Colts in 06. They can keep it up, but it shouldnt be expected. And the bold is just another strawman

 

[Ring 6]

No they shouldnt be expected to do that against better competition. besides teams get hot and cold all the time. Giants defense in 2011 played way better in the playoffs than regular season. Same with the Colts in 06. They can keep it up, but it shouldnt be expected. And the bold is just another strawman

So why are you arguing that allowing more points while having a better pass rush is better than allowing fewer points with a weaker pass rush?

You are the one saying that you do not care how many points a team allows, all you care about it your eye test of pass rushing.

 

[fightingirish595]

Please keep in mind that one SB victory every 32 years is average. E V E R Y 32 Y E A R S.

Going three years without a top 10 pass rush, as measured by a statistic the coach doesn't consider critical, does not define a long term problem. It defines a small issue inside an unprecedented run of success.

I point out flaws on teams from the past and people take it as we should win the superbowl every year. These flaws I point out are flaws that keep many good teams from getting to their ultimate goal, because other teams can take advantage of them, and maybe do not have those same flaws

 

[fightingirish595]

So why are you arguing that allowing more points while having a better pass rush is better than allowing fewer points with a weaker pass rush?

You are the one saying that you do not care how many points a team allows, all you care about it your eye test of pass rushing.

Andy, would you consider a pass rush, specifically a 4th quarter pass rush, As a top 3 need of a team that wants to win a championship

And of course i care about points. giving up 40 a game will get us no where

 

[Observer]

Yards allowed is important because it correlates to good field position. If the offense keeps giving up the ball inside field goal range, even a good defense will give up a lot of points so I am not sure if points allowed is the cleanest way to compare defenses.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

points allowed is most important but you can't let teams have a bunch of long drives even if its just fg's

 

[patfanken]

Did anyone say it wasn't? I believe the contention is that points allowed isn't the be-all, end-all measurement of a defense.

No it IS the end all and be all in determining how good your defense is. Otherwise they will have to devise a new method of determining the winner of the game. Should it be best 3rd down efficiency wins? How about best red zone ratio? Or the old stand by, most TO's gets the W. No Kontra, in the end the team with the most points wins the game, and until that changes the fewer points your defense allows the better it is.

That being said, all those other things are just indicators. Things you can use to isolate when you are breaking down the evaluation of your defense. They have some value in helping you pinpoint specific areas you concentrate on in improving your defensive production. But the "end all and be all" goal of the defense is to limit the number of points that are scored by the offense.