BELICHICK IS TO BLAME.

[IllegalContact]

Just to follow this up....

These numbers are happening despite the Patriots making every possible attempt to limit the hits on Brady, even to the point of playing 6 OL for large portions of games. There's no equivalency between this year and last on this point.

There is the game plan.....

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

We have heard the extremes:

Pats are broken!

Pats just have a hiccup.

I tend to think it's in between - not a rebuild, but a refurbishing.

It may take a couple of season to build the depth and the coaching staff to adjust.

Bob Kraft does not seem like the type to walk BB on a short plank - that's what Oakland did this week for the 7th time in 12 years.

 

[PATS16N0]

Josh is to blame? Ridiculous! You're trying really hard to find a scapegoat.

Bill Belichick is to blame for ignoring the interior of the offensive line thru the NFL Draft from 2008 to 2013 with QUALITY picks:

http://www.pro-football-reference.c...os=ALL&college_id=all&conference=any&show=all

Meanwhile Bill Belichick pissed away draft picks on busts such Wheatley, Crable, O'Connell, Wilhite, Brace, Butler, Tate, McKenzie, Cunningham, Price, Dowling, Mallett, Wilson, Bequette.

Re-read thread title.

 

[Brady6]

Yea, I mean how would the Patriots have survived after Bledsoe if they hadn't drafted his replacement #1?

Did I say #1? I meant #199. Future great QBs are hard to predict. Garoppolo has shown a lot of upside, it's not "offensive" to Brady to make that observation.

Bledsoe was not a HOF QB and the likelihood of catching lightening in a bottle consecutively are very slim; actually it would be the first time that 2 QBs drafted outside of the first round were HOF back to back.

It is offensive to suggest that it would not take a top draft choice to replace Tom Brady; you do realize Tavon Wilson was a higher draft choice than Garopollo right?

 

[Brady6]

Brady may never be replaced, however they may find a qb who can more than adequately fill his shoes..

I have contended all along that Garapolo is their first attempt to get this right, and if he is not the heir apparent they have one or two more drafts to find the heir...

FYI... your argument about draft location..

Kapernick #36 2011 draft
Wilson #75 2012 draft
Drew Brees #35 2001

There are many high draft QB picks that have proven to be busts in the NFL...

You named 3 QBs, only one of them was selected later than #62. The odds are so slim that Garopollo develops into a franchise QB it is ridiculous, I am talking 5% or less.

 

[BSR]

Bledsoe was not a HOF QB and the likelihood of catching lightening in a bottle consecutively are very slim; actually it would be the first time that 2 QBs drafted outside of the first round were HOF back to back.

It is offensive to suggest that it would not take a top draft choice to replace Tom Brady; you do realize Tavon Wilson was a higher draft choice than Garopollo right?

I know I am going to regret going down this mad hatter rabbit hole but...

What happens if we don't have a #1 pick the year after Brady retires? Are we going QB-less?

 

[Marinlik]

Matt Patricia man....

Why ain't he fired yet?

Because he is Belichicks yes man on defense.

 

[Brady6]

I know I am going to regret going down this mad hatter rabbit hole but...

What happens if we don't have a #1 pick the year after Brady retires? Are we going QB-less?

No, we just will not have a franchise QB.

For those who are not aware Brady is signed through 2017 and Garopollo is signed through 2017, unless you want to give Garopollo a second contract before he even becomes a starter he is not likely to be here if Brady plays out his contract.

 

[Brady6]

The correlation vs. causation debate is one that will always enter my mind with Belichick. How much of his coaching success is he the cause of, and how much of it is the correlation of him having a top 5 QB for over a decade? 2008 is what posters hang their hats on but in reality the team won 16 games with Brady in 2007 and then won just 11 without him; a 5 game variance in wins/losses is significant.

Most years Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, and Roethlisberger and other top 5-6 QBs are in the Super Bowl, in fact over the past 10 years Brady is the only one in that group who has not won a Super Bowl. I look forward to the day I can see Belichick without Brady, I do not think he will be able to get away with trading the Mankins, and cutting the Kelly’s when it happens though.

 

[Marinlik]

You named 3 QBs, only one of them was selected later than #62. The odds are so slim that Garopollo develops into a franchise QB it is ridiculous, I am talking 5% or less.

The problem is that you only look at draft position. And not in any way on his play.

 

[Zeus]

...the team won 16 games with Brady in 2007 and then won just 11 without him; a 5 game variance in wins/losses is significant.

How many did they win when Brady came back in 2009?

 

[Brady6]

The problem is that you only look at draft position. And not in any way on his play.

I look at his play, I see passes that if not for the Chiefs being in a prevent would have been intercepted and 60% of his passing yards coming on pass behind the line of scrimmage that LaFell broke off for almost 40 yards. He is a gunslinger who is undersized and has a questionable arm; his draft position is an indication of that, and although he has shown promise, it very unlikely he develops into a franchise QB, as I said under 5%. I know many like to believe that the Patriots are significantly smarter than every other team, but that is not always true especially in terms of drafting. If Garopollo was actually a player who showed the ability to step in for Tom Brady I do not think 61 teams would have passed on him for the like of Bridgewater, Carr, Manziel, Bortles, etc. I would have a lot more confidence if we could develop our #59 overall selection Aaron Dobson into a WR capable of being active on game day.

 

[PATS16N0]

How many did they win when Brady came back in 2009?

The 2007 16-0 team played a gauntlet of the toughest defenses in the league. Cassel played weak divisions with a Superbowl cast around him and did nothing.

Brady > Belichick

 

[Brady6]

How many did they win when Brady came back in 2009?

Brady was returning from a major knee injury with multiple operations to clear infections, he was not playing at his highest level in 2009, and the team was much different then 2007 and 2008, it had a different OC, etc. In 2010, the team won 14 games. It usually takes until the second season for players to recover from knee surgery as we are seeing with Gronkowski right now.

 

[Zeus]

Brady was returning from a major knee injury with multiple operations to clear infections, he was not playing at his highest level in 2009, and the team was much different then 2007 and 2008, it had a different OC, etc. In 2010, the team won 14 games. It usually takes until the second season for players to recover from knee surgery as we are seeing with Gronkowski right now.

Sorry - I'm not trying to incite a riot here.

I think Belichick is a better coach for having Tom Brady as QB and Brady is a better player for having BB as coach. That's all I need to know.

My point was that there's more to the year to year variation in records than just the QBs. It's pretty unlikely that NE would have won 16 games in 2008 with a healthy Brady so I wouldn't say that the 5 game drop is all him. And I really don't believe the problem in 2009 was Brady's health (or Brady at all for that matter). I think that team had serious internal problems and ranks near the bottom of the teams in the TB/BB era.

Anyway, as I noted earlier, it's pretty unlikely that the next QB will be as good as Brady. I'm encouraged by Garappollo but recognize we have next to nothing to go on. I hope he develops into a fine player. Why wouldn't I?

 

[Marinlik]

I look at his play, I see passes that if not for the Chiefs being in a prevent would have been intercepted and 60% of his passing yards coming on pass behind the line of scrimmage that LaFell broke off for almost 40 yards. He is a gunslinger who is undersized and has a questionable arm; his draft position is an indication of that, and although he has shown promise, it very unlikely he develops into a franchise QB, as I said under 5%. I know many like to believe that the Patriots are significantly smarter than every other team, but that is not always true especially in terms of drafting. If Garopollo was actually a player who showed the ability to step in for Tom Brady I do not think 61 teams would have passed on him for the like of Bridgewater, Carr, Manziel, Bortles, etc. I would have a lot more confidence if we could develop our #59 overall selection Aaron Dobson into a WR capable of being active on game day.

It's fun that the biggest Brady fanboy is so focused on draft position.

The problem with discussing with people like you and Pats16no is that you aren't football or Patriots fans. You are Brady fans. So to get something even close to an objective discussion with you about Brady, or someone that is competing with Brady is impossible. You don't care about a team after Brady. For people like you there isn't a team after Brady.


No Garoppolo didn't complete all passes because they played in prevent. The first pass to Edelman for example was tight man coverage. He threw a very good pass to LaFell on a post route that should have been a complete pass. But LaFell droped it in the tackle.

No this is not me saying that Garoppolo is our definitive franchise QB that will bring us all the Super Bowl. Just that the Patriots is a team. Not Brady and his entourage.

 

[Brady6]

Sorry - I'm not trying to incite a riot here.

I think Belichick is a better coach for having Tom Brady as QB and Brady is a better player for having BB as coach. That's all I need to know.

My point was that there's more to the year to year variation in records than just the QBs. It's pretty unlikely that NE would have won 16 games in 2008 with a healthy Brady so I wouldn't say that the 5 game drop is all him. And I really don't believe the problem in 2009 was Brady's health (or Brady at all for that matter). I think that team had serious internal problems and ranks near the bottom of the teams in the TB/BB era.

Anyway, as I noted earlier, it's pretty unlikely that the next QB will be as good as Brady. I'm encouraged by Garappollo but recognize we have next to nothing to go on. I hope he develops into a fine player. Why wouldn't I?

I agree with you. I am just trying to focus on the time we have left with Brady for now. I find all the talk about Garopollo to be disrespectful to Brady when he is still under contract for 3 3/4 seasons he deserves more from us a fans given all he has done for this team.

 

[Brady6]

It's fun that the biggest Brady fanboy is so focused on draft position.

The problem with discussing with people like you and Pats16no is that you aren't football or Patriots fans. You are Brady fans. So to get something even close to an objective discussion with you about Brady, or someone that is competing with Brady is impossible. You don't care about a team after Brady. For people like you there isn't a team after Brady.


No Garoppolo didn't complete all passes because they played in prevent. The first pass to Edelman for example was tight man coverage. He threw a very good pass to LaFell on a post route that should have been a complete pass. But LaFell droped it in the tackle.

No this is not me saying that Garoppolo is our definitive franchise QB that will bring us all the Super Bowl. Just that the Patriots is a team. Not Brady and his entourage.

I'm actually a football fan first, a Patriots fan second, and a Brady fan third. I'm not sure what makes you think otherwise, I seldom talk about Brady on here in fact. I just think that discuss Jimmy Garopollo is the least relevant thing we could discuss on this team right now. Brady is under contract for 3 3/4 seasons, posters are talking about Garopollo like he is slated to take the helm next season.

As far as the plays go it was garbage time and his playing well against a defense in prevent mode is not anything to be overly excited about, it is encouraging yes but right now this board has completely overblown it.

I would caution you on make assumptions on what type of a fan a poster is just because you do not like what he or she is saying. Your assertion here was completely off base. I love Brady as a player but I was a fan before him and I will be a fan long after him. For the record my focus is more on defense than offense.

 

[Zeus]

I agree with you. I am just trying to focus on the time we have left with Brady for now. I find all the talk about Garopollo to be disrespectful to Brady when he is still under contract for 3 3/4 seasons he deserves more from us a fans given all he has done for this team.

Just fans being fans. People are frustrated. It comes with the territory.

 

[Marinlik]

I'm actually a football fan first, a Patriots fan second, and a Brady fan third. I'm not sure what makes you think otherwise, I seldom talk about Brady on here in fact. I just think that discuss Jimmy Garopollo is the least relevant thing we could discuss on this team right now. Brady is under contract for 3 3/4 seasons, posters are talking about Garopollo like he is slated to take the helm next season.

As far as the plays go it was garbage time and his playing well against a defense in prevent mode is not anything to be overly excited about, it is encouraging yes but right now this board has completely overblown it.

I would caution you on make assumptions on what type of a fan a poster is just because you do not like what he or she is saying. Your assertion here was completely off base. I love Brady as a player but I was a fan before him and I will be a fan long after him.

Actually. It's more like Brady is under contract this year, with an option(starting week 17 this year) for three more years. So it's not completely irrelevant.

I do not think Brady is toast yet. I will certainly give him more than 4 games of the season before even coming close to ringing a bell for us to move on .

With that said I actually think Garoppolo short term might be our better QB(no does not mean start him!) because our OL is so crappy and Garoppolo is faster than Brady. Brady's biggest weakness is pressure up the middle, and our middle sucks.