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Belichick is a scouting genius!

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  1. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Once again Bill Belichick has demonstrated that he is a draft guru, "par excellance". He picked up a forgotten and overlooked QB who had a mediocre college career,while playing on a poor team, and found the spark of a NFL caliber QB.

    He has now found what appear to be three NFL QBs. For the grand total of a 6th, 7th round and now an UDFA, no pick at all. Meanwhile other teams bust consistently on First Round "Can't Miss", rookie phenoms, who nevertheless... do.:(

    Brian Hoyer goes 18 for 25, and 242 yards, 1 TD and 0 INTs in his FIRST start. I'm glad to see him succeed, but with the cutting of Kevin O'Connell, a third round pick last week, that caused a stir throughout the league, and this performance, I fear it will be impossible to hide Brian Hoyer on the Practice Squad now. What a pleasant problem to have.:p

    I was very impressed with Brian Hoyers POISE and composure when he played in the tail end of th Bengals game. He didn't produce gaudy stats; but he piloted and led the team from the moment he set foot on the field, in a totally unflappable way, a long time veteran would. Now this performance!:eek:

    Do you think the perennial Belichick bashers like the capt and company will stop yelling about a wasted draft pick and or giving up on a guy too soon, for KOC? Probably not. But the second guessing by everyone else surely will.:D

    Comments?
  2. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let's not go overboard. Hoyer played well in the last preseason game. This is the game where they play a lot of players for long stretches that are struggling to make the roster to showcase them. He performed well tonight, but there is no guarantee this guy will even make the team nevermind that he is a new diamond in the rough.

    Didn't people talk this way about Matt Guiteriez too?
  3. wdkantro2

    wdkantro2 Rookie

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    There have been countless guys who have played great in the 4th preseason game only to be a cut a few days later. Relax.
  4. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    It was a good game, and a good showing. I agree that he was head and shoulders above OC, but there is still a number of levels between Hoyer and Brady.

    Still and all, it was a great game, and I have a higher confort level now. :)
  5. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If you watched them both play you would know there is a clear difference. Gutz never had the poise.

    This kid won't make the PS. I almost think BB left him in all game to send a big FU to all the KOC hysterics...
  6. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    have we forgotten about Kevin O'Connell already
  7. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have seen Hoyer play one game in the fourth game. I think Belichick threw Hoyer in there to determine whether he needs to desperately scramble to find another veteran QB for a back up.

    People said Gutz wouldn't make the practice squad last year and he was a street free agent the first week of the season. Did you see how well some other scrub QBs did tonight? John Beck had 232 yards, 2 TDs, and no INTs. Erik Ainge had 160 yards, 2 TDs, and no INTs. Great performance in the last game doesn't mean much of anything.

    Everyone needs to calm down a bit.
  8. PatsChamp88

    PatsChamp88 Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    You make a valid point, I think everyone is just happy to see a QB move the ball down the field thats not Brady especially after watching the KOC performances this preseason.
  9. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    No way Hoyer makes the practice sqaud after tonight. Yeah, it's game 4, but he did face starters in this game. Can't hide him now. I suspect he'll be on the Patriots. If we go for a legit #2 in a trade, then Walter will go first. Walter is a JAG, Hoyer has a huge upside to him, no sense dumping him. He needs time and he'll likely develop well. Looked great tonight. Very comfortable for a rook.
  10. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    No there is a major difference. When Gutierrez was running about like headless chicken and sometimes completing passes,and sometimes INTs, and "making something happen", that meant nothing.

    In Belichick's eyes, it showed a raw rookie, not a leader calmly in charge. Despite being put into a 3 TD hole, Hoyer didn't panic. He just unflappably and methodically tried to use the talent on the Team, that he was provided with, and move the ball. It took a while against the Giant first stringers who played for a series or two, while the Pats obviously didn't.

    For the first half he looked like a fellow, Matt Cassel, or rather a spindly weaker-armed Brady in 2000. While today the Team only compiled a net total of 37 yards of Offense through almost the whole first half. But they had a TD to show for it, and the Giants hadn't scored since the opening minutes as he led the Pats into a game that he guided into a punting duel.

    There is no similarity between Hoyer and Gutierrez. Brian needs another preseason under Woicik, and a camp or two under Belichick before he would be any where near qualified as a backup QB. Sort of like that Brady fellow in 2000, once again.
  11. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Apt !!:eek:
  12. Rob0729

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    Maybe he can go to Home Depot next week where the guys he did it against tonight will be working and recreate those magic moments.

    Are we in the Twilight Zone? Was tonight the last preseason game where teams give bubble players extended looks or did we just play a 16 game season? Seriously, people need to calm down.

    People are making too much of one game. Based on the preseason last year, Cassel was a deer in the headlight. Heck in the regular season in 2007, the guy had to be pulled in garbage time because he screwed up. He looked great last year during the regular season.

    We are starting to sound like the Jets fans overrating talent based on preseason play.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Only if we don't know what we're looking for, or at...

    Cassel was not a deer in the headlights last season. Far from it. But if you missed that all I can assume is I guess you just don't have a clue how they evaluate QB's within this system.
  14. PatsDeb

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    Hoyer did fine, but he didn't look so hot against the Giants 1st team defense. Admittedly the O-line didn't help him out, and he kept at it without falling apart. He made a nice showing tonight and hopefully will keep getting better. I don't think we can annoint him the next coming of TB just yet.
  15. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Who said last season? I said last PRESEASON. And he most certainly did look that way. In hindsight, it wasn't his fault that he was that way, but most everyone thought he would be cut because he was getting creamed so much and looking like he couldn't handle the starting role.

    Early in the regular season, his decision making was still too slow and so were his checkdowns.

    Maybe before you throw insults around, you should work on your reading comprehension. How exactly can you judge my QB evaluation skills when you can't even read my posts.

    BTW, Cassel was 19 for 34 for 165 yards, no TDs, and 1 INT for the preseason last year. He was not far from a deer in the headlights last preseason.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would second that. People are making grande judgements based on one preseason game. Tony Eason looked like he was going to be a good QB based on his first few seasons. Drew Bledsoe looked like the was on his way to be the second coming of Dan Marino his second season. Neither remotely lived up to those expectations. Now people are claiming that Hoyer is the next Cassel or even possibly Brady after one preseason game.

    People are falling into the trap of preseason. When a player you like has a bad preseason game, it is only preseason. When they have a good preseason game, it is the player is awesome and he is the next so and so.

    Sorry, preseason and is preseason and what you see is not always what you get. I never fall in love or out of love with anyone during the preseason because you can be very wrong in your assessment.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  17. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Rookie

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    Those are hardly Deer in the Headlight stats. Casssel completed 56% of his passes at an 8.68 ypc pace. Not great, but not bad considering there was no starting offensive line nor any first string WRs last preseason. As Neal and Moss were both injured; and they were auditioning walk-on RTs from all the veteran FAs in the League, so there was no continuity either.

    Discerning fans and more importantly, Bill Belichick can tell the difference.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  18. MoLewisrocks

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    His stats have nothing to do with deer in the headlights. Cassel was poised and disciplined even as those around him were playing like crap. IN THE PRESEASON. Even Bill recalled that a few weeks ago. There was a reason he remained the undisputed (except by kneejerk fans and media) #2 throughout the preseason. Some of us saw that while many more did not. Gutierrez and O'Connell found ways to move the chains against 3rd and 4th stringers. In O'Connell's case that was fine, he was a rookie working with a limited play book. Gutierrez on the other hand moved the chains so well he got cut. Because he wasn't running the offense, he was pulling plays out of his ass to impress people who could care less about winning pre season games... KOC went backwards in his second season and that is unacceptable. Situational football matters to BB. O'Connell couldn't even take a damn knee right in year 2. Maybe getting the job by default went to his head, or maybe there was never much going on in there to begin with. He had the physical tools. Lacked the temperment and intangibles to make the most of them.

    BB said tonight he left Hoyer in because he felt he had earned the right to bring the team back. And he did. For a rookie that's quite a testament even in a pre season game. None of them come out of the gate fully developed and polished. The ones with a future continue to progress and they don't make the same mistakes over and over because they learn from them and get better. Cassel got better and more consistent as a prospect from season to season and as a starter from game to game. Same as that Brady guy. Judging by what Hoyer did two weeks ago and then tonight, he's that kind of upside prospect.
  19. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    This is the thing people forget, when talking about Cassel, and last preseason :rolleyes:
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I doubt if Brady would have looked great against the Giants 1st team defense tonight seeing as none of the rest of the NE 1st team offense were facing them either.
  21. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    I agree that Hoyer is a keeper. But let's not forget about O'Connell, Kinsbugry, and Rohan Davey - all were drafted by BB. Plus he's brought in several UDFA QBs who never panned out. So I'm not sure he's as much of a genius as you claim. And of course having Bledsoe and then Brady makes it easy to not spend 1st and 2nd round picks on QBs.
  22. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    KOC is one thing, but NObody thought much of Rohan. lol.
  23. cubedoggy

    cubedoggy Rookie

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    Not at all. I believe he's right behind Brooks Bollinger on the Lions' depth chart.
  24. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    My take on it is that O'Connell was cut early to give Hoyer and Walter substantially more practice time, i.e. that BB planned early last week that Hoyer, not O'Connell was going to play Week 4.
  25. denverpatsfan

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    If BB could draft well the Pats would have another 2 championships. Drafting is his only shortcoming. The Steelers make him look foolish EVERY season.
  26. BradyFTW!

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    #12 Jersey

    QBs with huge upside usually get drafted. Guys like Brady (and even he got drafted) are once-in-a-generation finds. I agree that Hoyer showcased some nice skills tonight, and may develop into a good NFL QB, but 'huge upside' is stretching it.
  27. ctpatsfan77

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    Ummm, I don't think drafting was the issue in either of those years. . . .
  28. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Drafting is his shortcoming? For evidence that you're insane, I'd point to Mayo, Wilhite, Meriweather, Slater, LeKevin Smith, Gostkowski, Mankins, Kaczur, Hobbs, Sanders, Wright.... you know what, screw it. I only made it back to 200 and I've already proven my point. If you think that drafting is Belichick's weakness, feel free to check out the other 31 teams' track records sometime. Pats are easily one of the 5 best drafting teams in the NFL.
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2009
  29. nashvillepatsfan

    nashvillepatsfan Rookie

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    I think the guy from denver was just joking around. I mean c'mon, no one is that dumb :D
  30. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    BS, Huge upside................... as in displays poise and comfort in his first "game" (so to speak), he is a Rook (very young) and is cerebral and is learning in a system that appears to suit him. That makes his upside on this team IMO, much greater than Walter, who is really a JAG (until he shows us otherwise), with some NFL exp. Hoyer will be a tough cut. It's more then about this year and Hoyer won't survive waivers.

    If you don't think his upside is greater then fine, but don't ignore the fact that it's there. I think in 2-3 years, he could be a really effective QB in the right system.

    Be realistic too, I never compaired him to Brady either, and it's unfair to say I did. There are some intangibles and he seems to have shown "some" of them. They need exploiting and work, but is certainly there.
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