Belichick desired OLB measurables and the draft

[bucky]

The "MoveTheSticks" guy actually had a podcast on this. He specified height, weight and 40 times for all positions that would be considered "clean" prospects (i.e. no issues with measurables). His defensive baseline was the 34 defense of Baltimore (under Rex Ryan) and Cleveland ( under Romeo). His minimal requirements for OLBs was as follows:

6'026" (that's 6 ft, 2 and 3/4 inches)
245 lbs
4.75 40.

Now, if you consider this to be a blend of Baltimore and Cleveland, and assume Cleveland to be the same as BB, then I'd say BB would be thrilled with the following:

6.3"
250 lbs
4.7 40

The only guys who have any experience playing LB that would qualify as OLBs are:

AJ Edds
Sergio Kindle
Ricky Sapp

Beyond that, you're talking projection from DE like Teo-Nesheim, Griffen, Morgan, etc.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

The "MoveTheSticks" guy actually had a podcast on this. He specified height, weight and 40 times for all positions that would be considered "clean" prospects (i.e. no issues with measurables). His defensive baseline was the 34 defense of Baltimore (under Rex Ryan) and Cleveland ( under Romeo). His minimal requirements for OLBs was as follows:

6'026" (that's 6 ft, 2 and 3/4 inches)
245 lbs
4.75 40.

Now, if you consider this to be a blend of Baltimore and Cleveland, and assume Cleveland to be the same as BB, then I'd say BB would be thrilled with the following:

6.3"
250 lbs
4.7 40

The only guys who have any experience playing LB that would qualify as OLBs are:

AJ Edds
Sergio Kindle
Ricky Sapp

Beyond that, you're talking projection from DE like Teo-Nesheim, Griffen, Morgan, etc.

Yep, those projection lads have a transition to go through, but you can also say the same about the other three in terms of trench warfare skills, even though Kindle and Sapp have played DE, they were primarily run around the big dude ends whose hand-fighting skills will need to be improved for NE-style slugfests. No perfect answers in drafting.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

So, what if we could acquire a player with the following measureables in the late second round:

Height: 6062
Weight: 260
40 Yrd Dash: 4.53
20 Yrd Dash: 2.61
10 Yrd Dash: 1.53
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 15 (coming off pectoral injury; number should go up drastically with rehab)
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.39
3-Cone Drill: 6.90

Anyone interested? I mean, he's raw and would have a lot of work ahead of him to learn the position, but it could pay off down the road. If none of the other available players have the prerequisite size, speed, and agility, then why not take a gamble on, ahem, a "conversion" project?

Points to the poster who solves the identity of the mystery prospect--it shouldn't be too hard.

 

[Taxed in Maine]

The "MoveTheSticks" guy actually had a podcast on this. He specified height, weight and 40 times for all positions that would be considered "clean" prospects (i.e. no issues with measurables). His defensive baseline was the 34 defense of Baltimore (under Rex Ryan) and Cleveland ( under Romeo). His minimal requirements for OLBs was as follows:

6'026" (that's 6 ft, 2 and 3/4 inches)
245 lbs
4.75 40.

Now, if you consider this to be a blend of Baltimore and Cleveland, and assume Cleveland to be the same as BB, then I'd say BB would be thrilled with the following:

6.3"
250 lbs
4.7 40

The only guys who have any experience playing LB that would qualify as OLBs are:

AJ Edds
Sergio Kindle
Ricky Sapp

Beyond that, you're talking projection from DE like Teo-Nesheim, Griffen, Morgan, etc.

Having watched a bunch of Iowa games this past season, I love the way Edds plays. But he would project to ILB for the Patriots. He rarely rushed the passer, and is one of the best coverage LB.
Not a viable option as an OLB for us.

 

[SeauOUCH]

I would argue that shorter and/or weaker LBs are a liability as 3-4 OLBs on run downs, i.e. TBC.

Shorter doesn't = weaker, Graham is very very strong in the run game yet ideal 6'4 Sapp can't set the edge at all.

The best LB of all time was only 6'2.

OLB is one of the most important positions in a 3-4. We need to bring in talented OLB's regardless of height. Willie Mac type guys come along like once per ten years & go top 5. Even if we wait for this ideal freak there is a 99.999% chance he gets drafted before our pick.

The tall lanky guys ( Sapp, Crable etc ) tend to have chicken legs, are injury prone & cant hold up against the run.

 

[StraightCashHomey81]

Shorter doesn't = weaker, Graham is very very strong in the run game yet ideal 6'4 Sapp can't set the edge at all.

The best LB of all time was only 6'2.

OLB is one of the most important positions in a 3-4. We need to bring in talented OLB's regardless of height. Willie Mac type guys come along like once per ten years & go top 5. Even if we wait for this ideal freak there is a 99.999% chance he gets drafted before our pick.

The tall lanky guys ( Sapp, Crable etc ) tend to have chicken legs, are injury prone & cant hold up against the run.

I wouldn't include Graham as being weak and in a 4-3 one-gap scheme, his strength would allow him to be a good run player, because he could use his strength to push back/get by blockers to penetrate. But he would not be a good run player here. He doesn't have the length/lateral agility to set the edge in the Patriots scheme.

Sapp is not weak, although he could get stronger. His occasional troubles against the run may be due in part to the injured knee he played through last year. Sapp is also by all accounts a very hard worker. You can add strength. Graham can't become taller, grow longer arms, or get much quicker.

 

[Nonentity]

Points to the poster who solves the identity of the mystery prospect--it shouldn't be too hard.

Connor Barwin, and I claim my five dollars.

 

[patchick]

Connor Barwin, and I claim my five dollars.

:nooo:

I'm guessing this "conversion" project is converting from another sport altogether, via offense. (But given that he doesn't seem big on contact, OLB isn't in the cards!)

 

[StraightCashHomey81]

So, what if we could acquire a player with the following measureables in the late second round:

Height: 6062
Weight: 260
40 Yrd Dash: 4.53
20 Yrd Dash: 2.61
10 Yrd Dash: 1.53
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 15 (coming off pectoral injury; number should go up drastically with rehab)
Vertical Jump: 38 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'00"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.39
3-Cone Drill: 6.90

Anyone interested? I mean, he's raw and would have a lot of work ahead of him to learn the position, but it could pay off down the road. If none of the other available players have the prerequisite size, speed, and agility, then why not take a gamble on, ahem, a "conversion" project?

Points to the poster who solves the identity of the mystery prospect--it shouldn't be too hard.

Miami TE Jimmy Graham?

 

[borg]

Miami TE Jimmy Graham?

I'm going with Graham also...15 reps is troubling

 

[WaterfallJumper]

Miami TE Jimmy Graham?

Bingo.

Obviously, I'm not entirely serious. But there's some small part of me that wonders what would happen if we tried it. I mean, if we spent the #78 overall pick on an OLB who hasn't even made it onto the field in two years, then why not take a guy with the exact measurables we're looking for, and give him a year or two to develop?

Oh, and I just realized that Patchick also had the right idea. I'm a little slow this morning. She's always got things figured out!

I do wonder about the "doesn't like contact" label, though. He was pretty physical on the basketball court, and said he enjoys mixing it up on the gridiron, too. If Barwin could make the switch effectively, why can't Graham? *shrug*

 

[bucky]

Having watched a bunch of Iowa games this past season, I love the way Edds plays. But he would project to ILB for the Patriots. He rarely rushed the passer, and is one of the best coverage LB.
Not a viable option as an OLB for us.

You're probably right. But he's being projected as a 43 SAM and if he can do that, he should be able to play 34 OLB here. As long as he can set the edge, play coverage, and blitz, he can play on 1st and 2nd downs. On 3rd down, he'll either go off the field or become a coverage LB. Not bad for a 3rd-4th round pick.

 

[bucky]

Yep, those projection lads have a transition to go through, but you can also say the same about the other three in terms of trench warfare skills, even though Kindle and Sapp have played DE, they were primarily run around the big dude ends whose hand-fighting skills will need to be improved for NE-style slugfests. No perfect answers in drafting.

No question all the draftees are projects in their own way. In order to be a 1st round pick though, you have to have clean measurables and a track record of productivity in that position. IMO, the only guy who fits that mold even somewhat is Kindle. Sapp has experience and measurables, but not the productivity. Morgan, Teo and Griffin have the measurables and productivity, but not the experience playing up and in space. Graham and Hughes lack the experience and measurables. And so it goes. IMO, Kindle's off-field issues are somewhat of a concern. If he was totally clean off the field, he'd probably be a lock for Parcells at 12. As is, he might still end up there. I'm going to go our on a limb here and say that we won't see an OLB prospect drafted in the 1st this year yet again.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

No question all the draftees are projects in their own way. In order to be a 1st round pick though, you have to have clean measurables and a track record of productivity in that position. IMO, the only guy who fits that mold even somewhat is Kindle. Sapp has experience and measurables, but not the productivity. Morgan, Teo and Griffin have the measurables and productivity, but not the experience playing up and in space. Graham and Hughes lack the experience and measurables. And so it goes. IMO, Kindle's off-field issues are somewhat of a concern. If he was totally clean off the field, he'd probably be a lock for Parcells at 12. As is, he might still end up there. I'm going to go our on a limb here and say that we won't see an OLB prospect drafted in the 1st this year yet again.

The trouble with Kindle is the couple times I watched games in which he played I came away wondering why the fuss?

 

[Marqui]

The trouble with Kindle is the couple times I watched games in which he played I came away wondering why the fuss?

It's the Vernon Gholston effect. People see guy that had a great combine and has solid stats so they assume he's going to be amazing in the NFL.

 

[condon84]

I don't care about measurables, I just want an OLB that can not only do his job, but also make some impact plays.

Based on "measurables", Dumervil and James Harrison wouldn't fit in our scheme. Hell, we passed on Clay Matthews for the same dumb reason and picked up a fat @ss Brace for the same stupid he fits our "measurables" reasoning.

 

[bucky]

I don't care about measurables, I just want an OLB that can not only do his job, but also make some impact plays.

Based on "measurables", Dumervil and James Harrison wouldn't fit in our scheme. Hell, we passed on Clay Matthews for the same dumb reason and picked up a fat @ss Brace for the same stupid he fits our "measurables" reasoning.

1) I agree with the premise of your statement.

2) It's not that the Pats don't take guys without measurables. It's just that they don't take them in the 1st round. Dumervil is a prefect example - he went at the end of the 4th round.

3) There's no guarantee that Matthews would have worked out here. The scheme is a little different.

4) For every Dumervil and James Harrison there are a dozen or more guys who never make it in the league because they're too small or too slow. So taking these guys as examples is no so different from taking Brady and Cassell and using them as an example of QBs who aren't full time starters in college, but make it in the NFL.

 

[patchick]

I don't care about measurables, I just want an OLB that can not only do his job, but also make some impact plays.

Based on "measurables", Dumervil and James Harrison wouldn't fit in our scheme. Hell, we passed on Clay Matthews for the same dumb reason and picked up a fat @ss Brace for the same stupid he fits our "measurables" reasoning.

Clay Matthews had awesome measurables and a very weak on-field resume. :confused2:

 

[Nonentity]

Clay Matthews had awesome measurables and a very weak on-field resume. :confused2:

Matthews had also bulked up massively in college and there were questions about whether or not he could put on much more weight to take on linemen every snap. Obviously he has done well for Green Bay but it was by no means guaranteed.

 

[Marqui]

Been watching a lot of Corey Wooton lately. He started to look very healthy in the last 4 games of the season. Considering his measurables and skill sets, I wouldn't be surprised if he's one of the highest rated DE/OLBs on the Pats draft board.