Belichick and Parcells - friends?

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by TrueBeliever, Feb 24, 2009.

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  1. TrueBeliever

    TrueBeliever 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    The most recent issue of Patriots Football Weekly has a picture of Bill Belichick and Bill Parcells sitting in the stands together at the Senior Bowl. I guess I'm confused, because I thought they weren't really friendly after BB left the Jets - not only because of how he left, but also because Parcells was a real jackhole to him during their years there.

    So were the rumors of the death of their friendship greatly exaggerated?
  2. Jackson 2

    Jackson 2 Supporter Supporter

    #12 Jersey

    Obviously, there was a very cool, no - cold, period in their relationship, particularly during Parcells' time in Dallas, There have been several accounts since then which have chronicled the thawing of that freeze, which seems to have been initiated by Parcells.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  3. RayClay

    RayClay Hall of Fame Poster

    #75 Jersey

    They were never friends, they were tough boss, ambitious employee. They had mutual respect. Parcells challenged him because he knew he could be great. BB bristled and dumped on him behind his back when with the Giants. He respected him like you would that tough teacher who wouldn't accept less than "A" work.

    I actually don't think they ever became friendly until they coached against each other when Parcells was with Dallas. Kind of became known that the pupil overtook the master.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  4. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #22 Jersey

    "The circle is now complete. When I left you, I was but the learner now I am the master."
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2009
  5. JSn

    JSn Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract


    "Fuh Kue: The Legend Continues"
  6. sg14

    sg14 On the Game Day Roster

    Darth Vader, Star Wars IV???

  7. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    #22 Jersey

    Nice shot kid, but don't get ****y.
  8. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 Supporter Supporter

    Many folks who have worked closely together and/or against each other develop complex relationships that range across a whole gamut of emotions and roles, especially when the relationships transcend years and even decades. Unless they truly can't abide each other, there is much room for friendship and even affection that is still mixed with intense rivalry and anger. And, in some cases, people who at one time couldn't bear to be in the same room with each other become reasonably good friends (think bush41 and clinton).

    There's no evidence that BB and BP cannot abide each other. In fact, they seem to have gotten along in the past. So, I wouldn't be surprised if they developed a close relationship as they get older.

    As for the dynamic of their relationship. We can only speculate. The "Master/Student" thing could well just be a figment of our own imaginations and fantasy after all these years, even tho it was certainly there at the beginning.
  9. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

  10. ScottieC

    ScottieC In the Starting Line-Up

    Read the book, "Education of a Coach".

    Basically, they can't work together.
  11. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

    Maybe they were both just throwing Pioli under the bus.:D
  12. satz

    satz 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    They must have a good relationship.piolli and bill are so close and piolli is parcell`s son in law. what do you think they never met each other or talked any where other than work?.They interact alot at work,personal time and also BB spends his summers in Florida with jimmy and other coaches which does include parcells.
  13. PatsFanSince74

    PatsFanSince74 Supporter Supporter

    Like you, I read the book carefully. If you're just arguing that Halberstam would suggest that "they can't work together" in the sense that they can no longer work under the same roof, i'd agree with you. But, otherwise, i think that Halberstam takes a much more nuanced view of the relationship than that and that it reflects the relationship itself.

    It is, of course, naive to suggest that there weren't major issues between them when they went their separate ways, but the relationship endures in a transformed manner, much as many relationships between powerful people change after periods of rivalry and even intense anger. Parcells has frequently been quoted in recent years as saying that he and bb are in regular contact and that he has taken his advice since he began his Miami gig.

    Here was Halberstam's take on the relationship as he presented it in an interview with Michael Holley after his book appeared. I think that the divorce analogy is apt; these are two people who can no longer live under the same roof but who can still have a relationship that is built on their common interests and past associations, as well as on mutual respect:

    "they came together and it really worked. Parcells knew how to run a team, how to get the emotions, and Belichick was the creator of those great defenses with great players. They stayed together too long. It got harder and harder, I think, the more Belichick got to parity. The more people began to give him credit, I think, the more it grated on Parcells. And they probably should have gotten divorced about two years before they did."
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2009
  14. NoCal Patriot

    NoCal Patriot Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    This is a case of two guys who share a great deal of history,who had a rough patch where both of their goals collided but as both age ,they both find that they have more in common than the things that drive them apart. It happens all of the time in real life.
  15. ScottieC

    ScottieC In the Starting Line-Up

    My take on the book and my comment are mine alone.

    I took their relationship summed up this way:

    Two genius football coaches that recognize that both are in fact so smart and talented that they were mutually drawn to each other - The problem was that as they began to work together each of their coaching styles were as far apart as they could be, while in contrast to coaching styles, their take on the game and what was needed for the team to succeed was virtually the same - So in this respect they were as much a like as they were different.

    So, my view is that when apart they awe in each others individual abilities, while they know that working together is toxic....or at least NOW they know that. ;)
  16. listen.....regardless of anyones impression, these guys aren't fools........

    two of the biggest brains in the sport are smart enough to know that a positive relationship can help much more than a negative one........

    and forget the bill parcells tree...........its the chuck fairbanks tree that pretty much runs the NFL now
  17. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks Supporter Supporter

    Say what???...

    They were mentor and protogee. Parcells always had an eye for talent on and off the field. He also had an ego that would not allow for crediting that talent and a penchaant for keeping it under his thumb - something Belichick has chosen not to do once in a position to because it was done to him. He and Bill had a functional relationship that spanned the Giants and Jets with a HC position for Belichick in Cleveland in between. He tried to keep Belichick in NY as a HC even as he feigned moving to the FO, but Belichick was tired of living in his shadow and knew that was where he would remain unless he cut the cord publicly and quite messily.

    That was the end of the relationship until a couple of years ago when Parcell's was beginning to have his struggles reinventing himself as the genius in Dallas and his brother, who was his only real friend over the years, died of cancer. It was written about fairly extensively at the time... Parcells's began facing his own mortality and questioning a lifelong self-absorbed mindset that had cost him a marriage (wife divorced him after his first retirement on the heels of leaving the Jets once he lost Belichick) and alienated his children (Dallas and Scott went with Belichick when he left Parcells and Scott and Belichick became best friends - their kids didn't see much of grampy as a family as a result) as well as most of his former protogees and left him basically alone save for those who were using him as he used them (like Jerry Jones and his ESPN cronies). That is when he reached out to several former protogees including Belichick and asked if they could revisit the whole relationship thing. I think the only one he hasn't made up with is Charlie...whom he embarassed publicly while with the Giants and who testified against him when Belichick wanted out of that Jets contract.

    One of the things Belichick learned from Parcells's was how not to alienate protogees needlessly while pushing them mercilessly. Even Mangini could have positioned himself to have an enduring relationship with Belichick once he moved on had his ego (much like Parcell's) allowed him to see that Belichick just wanted what was best for him, knew he wasn't ready to be a HC and knew the Jets job was a HCing disaster in waiting. Mangini isn't on Bill's **** list for leaving so much as leaving prematurely before paying his dues and taking a job he was advised to avoid for his own good and probably landing it because he was all too willing to be disloyal to his mentor and tell tales to a division rival that the coaching fraternity mandates remain off limits. Unlike Parcell's Belichick had done a lot to deserve loyalty including being personally financially generous to and supportive of his young protogees and finding ways to credit their contributions and advance their careers (where possible and deserved) even as he maintained the one voice philosophy within his own organization.

    Parcell's seems to have learned that lesson finally as in Miami he is far more inclined to give credit to those he brought in to run the team on the field. He'll still pull some crap like he did over his contract terms this winter, because he still needs to see himself as a big blip on the NFL radar, but he is no longer inclined to grind up his coaching staff to achieve that end.
  18. Clonamery

    Clonamery Supporter Supporter

    Nice sum up, Mo. Good to have you back.
  19. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

    i think weis has more than once in the last couple of yrs mentioned talking to parcells before ND games...
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae Retired Jersey Club Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    Welcome back. The place just hasn't been the same without you.
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