Welcome to PatsFans.com

Beisel Revisited

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by arrellbee, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    I know a lot of folks are expecting Beisel to be the starting ILB with Bruschi.

    I thought I would take in look in slo-mo at his plays in the Jacksonville to see what me might expect. After all, this game was a playoff game which should mean players are putting out their best effort. And Beisel at that point had a full season of coaching and practice reps as well as a reasonable amount of game reps, so this game should provide a pretty good indication.

    1st - 13:23 - OK
    Beisel was Will. Run was right to his gap. Beisel stood up the RG and the runner cut to the LG slot
    1st - 12:39 - Poor
    QB 1 step drop. Quick pass to left WR at LOS (line of scrimmage). Beisel was Will. Didn't react to pass by heading toward receiver. Just stood there and then was pushed back by RT coming thru. Beisel just took block and didn't try to disengage. After Hobbs had made the tackle and 5 other Patriots had closed to the site of the tackle, Beisel finally arrived and patted Hobbs on the helmet.
    1st - 11:57 - Can't tell anything
    Beisel was Will. (I'm not going to repeat that anymore. As far as I could tell, he was always playing the weak side Will position while Vrabel played the strong side Mike.)
    Shotgun. Pass play. Coudn't tell if Beisel was covering anybody out of the backfield.
    1st - 7:59 - Poor
    I'll analyze this in a separate post.
    1st - 7:21 - Very Poor
    Run over LG (RB may have made a mistake because blocking was to open up RG slot which would have been Beisel's gap).
    Beisel lined up 4 yards off of LOS. At snap he moved up 2 yards to spot directly behind Wilfork's down position and stopped. The OC and OLG double teamed Wilfork toward LG side. Meanwhile, Beisel, after he stopped, backed up a yard ?? and waited for the double team to push Wilfork backwards to him. He then got blocked by the OLG who wasn't even trying to block him. Beisel ignored filling the gap over RG that was left by the double team on Wilfork. As mentioned, the RB actually cut to try to hit over the LG position which is where the double team blocked Wilfork to. Beisel meanwhile ended up pushing under the OLG and went to the ground on his knees without even making a move to the runner.
    1st - 6:40 - Beisel out - 4-3 defense (as far as I could tell, Vrabel played ALL 4-3 sets as ILB.
    1st - 1:41 - A Gimme
    Beisel blitzed off his right side. Bad snap out to defensive right. RB fell on the ball in front of Beisel. Beisel fell on top of RB without ever being blocked or even having to swerve. A total gimme based on his blitz assignment.
    1st - :57 - OK
    Beisel blitzing up the middle. He was basically unblocked. He got to QB just after the throw. Didn't appear to affect the throw.
    1st - :38 - Beisel out. Dime defense.
    2nd - 15:00 - couldn't see Beisel
    2nd - 12:02 - Couldn't see Beisel until play was over when he came in to celebrate
    2nd - 11:28 - Couldn't tell
    Beiel rushed forward on snap to meet OL and then stopped and dropped back. Don't know what his assignment might have been but he ended up in the middle of the field with no receiver near him.
    2nd - 10:47 - Not involved
    Beisel as Will on right side of Defense. Play went to left side of defense.
    2nd - 10:02 - delay of game
    2nd - 9:42 - couldn't see Beisel
    2nd - 9:04 - Beisel out. 4-3 defense
    2nd - 6:50 - Couldn't tell
    Screen to Beisel's side but he wasn't there. Couldn't see where he was and no way to know what his assignment was.
    2nd - 6:08 - Couldn't tell
    Beisel rushed up to LOS and stopped. Don't know what kind of assignment that could have been.
    2nd - 5:02 - Couldn't tell
    Beisel dropped back into short coverage but there were no receivers in his area. No way to know if he was supposed to be in a zone or if he should have been in a man-on-man.
    2nd - 4:45 - Chad Brown was Will
    2nd - 4:08 - Chad Brown was Will
    2nd - 3:51 - couldn't see ILB
    2nd - 3:32 - Poor (Beisel back in)
    Run into Beisel's weak side gap. He got pushed outside of his gap and was pushed down as runner came thru his gap. ALL 3 other LBs got to the runner at the same time pursuing all the way from their original positions to tackle runner for 1 yard gain.
    2nd - 3rd - Chad Brown was weak ILB on 9 more plays that I could tell.
    4th - Was entirely 4-3 defense with Vrabel playing ILB.

    So the summary of plays where Beisel was in and you could tell something definite summarizes as:
    1 play - Gimme
    2 plays - OK
    3 plays - Poor
    1 play - Very Poor
    The problem is that the 2 OK plays were nothing special, while the 3 Poors and the Very Poor were what ILB is all about.
  2. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    If you have the tape or a DVD of the Jacksonville playoff game, there is one play in the game that would be really interesting to watch in real slo-mo detail.

    The play was in the 1st at 7:59.

    Certainly one play would never even come close to defining what a LB is all about. But this play, for whatever one play is worth, raised some serious questions for me.

    On the face of it, Beisel pursued down the line and tackled the RB cutting outside for a 4 yard gain and got credit for a solo tackle, although Samuel came up and hit the RB head on at the same time.

    Play is lone RB intending to hit the ORG slot which was Beisel's gap. Beisel stands up ORG and RB bounces it to the outside. Beisel disengages and slides down the line to make the tackle, 4 yard gain.

    So what's concerning?

    Vrabel had released from his block on the far strong side and had been able to take 5 full strides pursuing while Beisel had managed to take two small sideways steps trying to disengage his block. Colvin had come all of the way from the opposite end of the LOS. The result was that by the time Beisel got disengaged to pursue, both Colvin and Vrabel had managed to get down the line to within less than a step of Beisel. The concern is how long it took Beisel to disengage compared to Vrabel, for example.

    In the time it took Beisel to reach the RB, Samuel had been able to come all of the way up and get there at the same time.

    Even earlier in the play, as the ORG came off the LOS, there was a gap between him and the ORT. The RB could have continued on into the that gap, which was Beisel's responsibility. But the RB apparently thought that Warren was beginning to move into the gap and planted at the LOS and then cut it outside. It is pure speculation, but you have to wonder why Beisel just allowed the ORG to engage him in a stand-up block instead of trying to shed the block enough to penetrate the open gap to meet the runner. If he had been able to slide down the side of the ORG he may well have also been able to reach the RB as he was planting his foot to make the cut and could possibly have tackled the RB behind the LOS before he could get into his cut.

    So, I rated this play as poor. If you look at the play, you might rate it differently, who knows.
  3. PatriotsFanMatt

    PatriotsFanMatt Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2006
    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Nice analysis and breakdown there,lets hope he can be a bit more of a playmaker this year for us.with tedy back in there lets home Beisel can play with a bit more confidence and fire this year.
  4. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    TC begins the new season for Beisel.
  5. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,148
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Keep up this kind of dogged pursuit of the facts, a-bee.

    Even if you're not entirely correct, your readers will end up knowing more than we started with.
    If you are correct ... we might surmise why
    Mincey and Roach make the 53 ... ahead of Beisel.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2005
  6. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Sometimes (frequently ?? ?? naaah) you come up with some really great questions NEM.

    I was absolutely certain that Belichick and Pioli had pulled off another huge coup. Early in the season, I didn't really look at Beisel in any game tapes in detail and was more or less figuring it was what I had heard a lot of other folks say - he was having trouble picking up the Patriots complex system and learning how to make the reads. However, I figured with more experience he would be a solid member of the LB corps for some years.

    In the Jets game and the Jaguars game, I began to get a different impression watching the games real time than other folks seemed to. So I went back and took a first cut at the Jets and Jaguars games and came away with a dismaying impression that what Beisel doesn't have isn't really much to do with understanding how to effectively play within the system, but was much more just plain poor fundamental LB play.

    So I went back today and did a complete play by play of the Jaguars game and that is what I posted.

    I don't have a very good feeling at all at this point. He may well make the roster because the LB list is so thin and inexperienced. But I think one or more of the 'no names' better not have a great preseason or he could really be on the bubble. And Chad Brown may have just taken another one of those slots.

    By the way, dismayingly, the Jets tape showed play that was signficantly worse LB play than the Jaguars game. I hope to have time over the next couple days to break down the Jets tape also and provide what info I can.

    Cheers.
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2006
  7. captain stone

    captain stone Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2004
    Messages:
    8,341
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0

    Monty Beisel is nothing more than a STer and backup OLB.
    He does not have the intelligence, toughness, strength or heart to play ILB.
    Memo to FO: you get what you pay for, so stop shopping at walmart.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2005
  8. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,494
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #37 Jersey

    Excellent post, Arrellbee. I do love these analyses.

    At the moment, Beisel appears to be the first-team Will and I think it will take a lot to displace him before the first real game. One thing going in his favor is his determination to improve, as shown by gaining weight and strength. Likely, he'll do better this year and may be good enough that with the stellar LB's and DL's around him, he'll be able to make plays.

    Last year, in TC, we were all raving about him and it wasn't until the regular season, against starting offenses at game speed, that he got lost. Once again, I think we won't know if he's improved until September.

    We can only hope, since I don't think there's anyone in front of him or even close to him right now, at his position, without taking Vrabel out of the OLB spot.

    Which means that signing Chad Brown might have been intended to provide depth at ILB given Vrabel's versatility.
  9. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    It's going to be interesting. I am inclined to think that they will keep Vrabel inside since he has proven that he can be a VERY effective ILB and that they will try to fill the OLB slot with Banta-Cain, Mincey, Gardner, and now Chad Brown as possibilities. It would be an interesting possibility that Chad Brown would return to OLB which is by far his main strength and success over the years. Just my inclination.

    Which do you suppose gets the higher emphasis - stronger ILB combination or slightly weaker ILB combination and stronger OLB. It seems to me that they might lean toward the stronger ILB, especially since Bruschi has proven to be very mobile in getting to the outside which can make up for some lack of production there. And in watching Vrabel at ILB in the last games of last season, I was totally impressed with his range and pursuit from the ILB position so if he ends up on the left side of the defense instead of Bruschi, he also could provide some compensation for a lesser strength on the outside. In that scenario, the more important capability for the OLB would be to be strong against the run and be able to seal the corner. Who knows if Chad Brown makes it to the 53 man roster. And if he does, I have no knowledge if his pro-bowl caliber play at OLB included solid run defense. He is a very intriguing signing but there may not be any real possibility that he makes the roster.

    Another thing to consider is that the depth chart at ILB is really short with Claridge gone. And if Beisel isn't a viable option or gets cut, who else besides Vrabel could they plug in there ??

    My guess is that Beisel will see a lot of snaps with the 1st team in camp and in the first couple preseason games. If we still see him in preseason games 3 and 4, maybe he's hacking it. If not, we'll probably know before finals cuts that Belichick has written him off.
  10. Alk

    Alk Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    2,061
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    I agree, a full season under his belt should do wonders. Not to mention the fact that he was nicked up pretty bad last season. Broken fingers I believe.
  11. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +18 / 1 / -0

    BB's June 14 Press Conference

    Q: What do you think of Monty Beisel as a football player? What do you like about him?

    BB: He’s a smart kid. He works hard and is in good condition. I think he has a lot of positives and a lot of good traits and a lot of things going for him.

    I share your scepticism, Arrellbee. What BB didn't say: he's tough, committed and has excellent technique.

    I hope that we're proved wrong.
  12. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,494
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #37 Jersey

    BB may switch these guys around right into the reg season. If Chad Brown looks good at OLB, it gives them a chance to put Vrabel at ILB against strong running teams. But if Beisel's increased bulk means he can stop a big RB with a full head of steam, BB can leave Vrabel at OLB.

    It's all about putting the best four LBs on the field and, in this case, I think Beisel has to be better at ILB than Brown is at OLB, since Vrabel can play either position. It's also situational. Against a good passing offense, you want Vrabel rushing the QB. Against a good running offense, you want Vrabel stopping the inside run (but who seals the edge -- can Brown do it?).

    My bet, after 1 day of TC, is that Beisel starts at ILB for most of the reg season and the rotation includes Brown with some regularity.
  13. State

    State Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Messages:
    2,507
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Past performance is the best indicator of future success. I no longer give much credence to "ready to break out" hype, esp. concerning Beisel. He might be the weak link in the defense, assuming no major injuries in the defensive backfield.

    His major problem seems to be overpursuing. He's a cut or two behind Bruschi at taking the proper angle, even if he may be bigger, stonger, and just as fast.

    Putting himself into position to ALMOST make a play is not good enough. His instincts just aren't good enough to be a consistent force, although physically he looks the part of an NFL middle linebacker.

    I hope this season proves me wrong. I do, though, believe the hype of Ben Watson.
  14. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    1,078
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Beisel is synonymous with the word "Bust". It's not "strength", "knowledge" or anything else...it's a lack of aggressiveness almost a fear of making a tackle. How this guy even played college ball is a mystery. Why BB wanted him is an even bigger mystery.

    No aggressiveness, no instincts, gone. He can life all the weights in the world, but it won't matter.
  15. belichickaholic

    belichickaholic Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2006
    Messages:
    396
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Is it "fear" or is it "indecisiveness"?

    To me, he looked like he wasn't quick enough to read and react. Always arriving late and often being in the wrong place. In the beginning, the poor kid looked like a chicken with it's head cut off! But IMO as the season went along he started to, at least, be where he was supposed to be.

    Linebackers have to be able to read and react simultaneously. If it takes them even one second between reading and reacting, they're usually going to get beaten.

    Tedy took some 5 years to learn that. It would be interesting to know how long it took Phifer to learn it. Both had the benefit of learning from Ted Johnson and Bryan Cox.(wish we still had HIM!) Beisel and Brown didn't have that luxury.

    We may be asking this kid to learn too quickly, but to judge him by only one game is unfair IMO, even if that one game came at the end of the season.

    Maybe it is fear, but let's see how he does through camp and preseason.
  16. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2005
    Messages:
    15,133
    Likes Received:
    27
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0 / -0

    #75 Jersey

    I agree with you NEM. That's right, there is nothing wrong with your computer, I agree with you.

    According to Curran, Biesel was playing most of last season with three badly mangled fingers on one hand. Try playing LB one handed.

    Last year was last year. If he was a wash out, BB would have sent him packing. BB has no problem doing that.

    I think that Mr. Biesel will be a good player for us this year.

    Besides, have you ever seen his wife?
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  17. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    19,975
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +28 / 1 / -0

    I add my support for Beisel. He came into the system and played next to the rock Chad Brown as the other ILB (Chad first time at ILB?), with a decimated defensive backfield, and was injured a good part of the year. For most here, these are a bunch of excuses for this useless backup.

    Some here disagree. More importantly, bb disagrees. BB apparently had little need to make any major moves (draft or free agency) at linebacker. BB HAS a starting ILB that he has confidence in. He did pick up a veteran backup in Gardner and could keep Alexander. Also, he could Vrabel inside if OLB's Banta-Cain or Mincey or Chad Brown really step up.

    I think bb now has what he signed up last year, two veterans who can start as needed. Beisel has moved up to be the starter in bb's eyes. Who am I to disagree? BTW, Chad Brown stayed in great shape and waited for Scotty's call.


  18. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I agree with you PatsNutme and mgteich. Monday Morning LB is all nice, but the facts remains that:

    (1) People had unrealistic expectations for Beisel...
    (2) Beisel looked bad because it was his first year and he was over his head with the play calling...
    (3) What's worse was that Chad Brown was even worse than Beisel at play calling...
    (4) Beisel looked bad because he was underweight. The first statement BB said when he signed was that Beisel needed to put some weight on. 23-something was not going to cut it.
    (5) Beisel had three broken fingers. Because he is underweight (compared to Ted Johnson) he need hand-technique to disengage. Being a practically one-armed LB means you will be slow to the ball and will not disengage from blocks.
    (6) At the beginning of the season, he had a tendency to overpursue and get out of position....
    (7) At the end of the season, he was probably was told by BB not to overpursue, was playing hurt and so wasn't selling out full-bolt on plays (so what? he his hand was broken... and he was still out there... that tells me something good about his toughness.)
    (8) People like a "name" to blame the bad defense on. Wilfork NT play and Sey's absence, the revolving door at SS, CB breakdowns had just as much to do with it as the ILB play. The whole thing was "effed" up last year. New year, new season, injuries will be healed.

    Listen to what Vrabel (a vet) learned last year by playing inside....
    http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/PatsBlog/archives/2006/07/postpractice_ch.html
    "When there's a good edge outside it allows the inside guys to slow down; I learned that. I went inside and noticed that with Rosey (Colvin) and Willie (McGinest) you can slow down. It's not like you have to fly outside because the ball will eventually come back in. I said that to Tedy (Bruschi) and he said, 'That's what i think when you're out there.' When i moved inside I realized how important that is to the defense."

    Read this article from last year to realize what we were up against:
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  19. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    I truly believe that the last paragraph of my post is the reason that both players on the team. Chad is moved outside because that is his strength. Bruschi will impeccably play Mike, so all Beisel has to do is listen, learn, and man his one complimentary spot.

    The Miami game seems to be a game that peers into '06. Matt Cassell, Bam Childress (playing CB and WR), Eric Alexander, and didn't Chad play OLB in that game?
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  20. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,329
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    I think this is key. BB ought to be able to evaluate LBs. He's worked with them before.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2005
  21. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    All of the points made, which certainly are excellent ones for what is important for the ILB, just simply miss the point.

    Certainly, it seems as though folks feel as though Beisel has been lacking in these and I would agree. And the things you mention CAN be improved on with experience and coaching.

    However, none of these excellent points are what is critically wrong with Beisel.

    One of the things that is critically wrong is that he doesn't TRY to disengage from a block, or at least try all that hard. If you don't disengage, you are playing exactly what the X's and O's offensive guy needs to have happen - a block that stays a block and doesn't let the LB loose to pursue and tackle. Simple. Even when he tries, it takes him forever to get away from the blocker. Note the play I mentioned in the 2nd post where Vrabel had been able to disengage his guy and take almost 5 strides before Beisel got loose and Colvin was able to come across from the totally opposite side of the LOS and still get there a half step behind Beisel.

    The other critical flaw is that this guy just does not try to get to the runner in traffic, even when the runner is in front of him !! I'll do the Jets game as soon as I get a couple hours. There are at least a couple plays (actually I think at least 3) that show this dramatically. Even if you read my comments on the Jags game, you will see that, even in this game, in two plays where the runner was coming right by the position he was in, he never laid a hand on the runner or even managed to push toward the runner.

    Do you think that these flaws can be coached ? I have serious doubts. I would certainly agree that most if not all of the other comments were about issues that can get significantly better with coaching and experience, but these don't seem to fit into that category.

    As Mike the Brit said: "What BB didn't say: he's tough, committed and has excellent technique."

    And McBee: "No aggressiveness, no instincts, gone. He can lift all the weights in the world, but it won't matter."

    One thing seems like a complete consensus. Belichick IS the master talent judge and we'll know by final cuts or the first few games of the season what his evaluation of Beisel is !! Soooooo hard to wait, but at least camp is here !!

    /Cheers
  22. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    1,786
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    What can be interpreted as lack of instincts could also be lack of understanding of where to be in position in the play. Picking it up is not easy. 2nd year in the season should help.

    Everyone agreed that Vrabel did a better job last year, but Vrabel weighs 266, Beisel 238. That difference cannot be discounted. Vrabel can use sheer size to disengage. Bruschi uses technique. And Beisel must use technique because of size. But you cannot use technique with one arm.

    What can be interpreted as not trying to disengage could also be being vastly overpowered, one-armed because of broken fingers, and just plain old not able to disengage. Sure Beisel wasn't effective, no argues that he was. He took his lumps. He had a lot to learn and the only reason he was out there was because of Bruschi's stroke, not because BB wanted him out there. This is about as unfair as Brady going down last year, a young QB stepping up in a new and difficult system over many weeks with a injuries at OL and WR and then criticizing him for throwing picks. He's bigger, healthier and has Bruschi next to him (who helps everybody know where to line-up as the signal-caller at the LOS). Its a new season, new TC. Last year was all "effed up" right down the line. We had no real running game, and it was our undoing in the Denver game. John Lynch said they didn't respect our running game, so they went after Brady, and we didn't have balance.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  23. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,494
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    #37 Jersey

    See Tom Curran's blog for this afternoon's practice. He says, "Bill Belichick spent a long time working with linebackers Monty Beisel and Eric Alexander on a block-shedding drill."

    Apparently someone things block shedding can be coached. Count me as one of the guys who is looking for Beisel to address these flaws.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2005
  24. RayClay

    RayClay Rookie

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2005
    Messages:
    17,518
    Likes Received:
    40
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0 / -1

    #75 Jersey

    There's another forum?:confused:
  25. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    Messages:
    2,753
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Interesting thread, Arrellbee. Nice break down of the Jags game.

    I think that the injury made a difference last year, when you consider that Beisel had to go to the hospital for a serious infection in his hand right before the Denver game.

    But he will need to improve if he is going to be counted on this year.
  26. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,727
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +5 / 1 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    As I've posted many times, I am not a fan of Beisel's. I think he lacks intensity, instincts and functional football strength.

    However, just to be fair, I do want to add a couple of things. In one of the Q&A sessions with the writers, one of the writers said that Beisel had a bad shoulder at the end of last season. A bad shoulder would negatively affect his ability to shed a blocker. Also an infaction on the hand would also negatively affect a player's ability to grasp and control, prior to shedding.

    I believe just as someone said earlier, that BB has brought in Brown as an OLB so he can find that compliment to Colvin, which would allow him to move Vrabel back inside. I don't see TBC as an OLB in the base defense. And I can't see Mincy or Woods making any contribution to the base defense this year.
  27. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    I mentioned in the posts at the top of the thread that I would try to take a look at Beisel in the Jets game. I've been able to get thru the 1st quarter, so here that is:

    Miami Game - Week 17

    1st Quarter

    1st - 11:14, 11:08, 10:25, 10:20 - didn't record
    1st - 9:13 - Very Bad
    Pass. Colvin rushes. Beisel is Mike. Beisel sets up 6 1/2 yards back from LOS. WR is out on strong side. At snap, TE releases and Beisel rushes straight ahead (blitzing ??) and totally ignores TE release. The TE HAS to be Beisel's responsibility as Mike (no safety up or rushing). TE gets 9 yard pick up.
    1st - 9:00 - Poor
    pass. Beisel is Mike blitzing up the middle. Gets thru LOS clean. RB (not FB) cut blocks him and Beisel goes down.
    1st - 8:57 - OK
    2 TE set. 3rd and 1. FB and RB go over OLG which is Vrabel's gap. Vrabel trips RB. Beisel blocks over ORG and then thrusts across toward RB. Doesn't make contact as far as I can tell. RB falls forward for 3 yard gain and first down.
    1st - 8:24 - Poor to Very Poor
    Beisel is Will covering OLG gap. No pass responsibility - RB is offset to Vrabel's side, not Beisel's. So Beisel has pure run assignment. He sets up 5 yards from LOS. At snap, Beisel takes a couple stutter steps for about 1 1/2 yards toward LOS and stops as he sees ORG coming off LOS toward him. You kind of have to see it, but basically, he pulls up and stops as the ORG hits him so ORG just drives him back a couple of yards totally out of play. Vrabel ends up making tackle for 1 yard gain
    1st - 7:50 - OK
    shotgun. 4 WR package. Beisel blitzes on his side and he is unblocked to the QB, but the ball is released before he gets close.
    1st - 7:10 - Couldn't tell
    3rd and 1. QB sneak for 2 yards and 1st down. Couldn't tell which ILB was which
    1st - 6:34 - Beisel out - 4-3 defense
    1st - 6:18 - Bad to Very Bad
    Beisel is Will on right side of defense. RB heads for OLG gap on Beisel's side. OLT and OLG double team Seymour. Now you'll have to explain this one to me. Instead of rushing into the OLG gap to meet the runner, Beisel heads toward Seymour's back putting him on the outside of the OLG double teaming Seymour. Doesn't make sense ?? Consequently, as Seymour goes to his knees, the OLG continues on and pushes Beisel away to the outside completely away from the RB. Inexplicable.
    1st - 5:44 - Bad
    Beisel is Will. Blitzes. Gets thru LOS clean. Ricky Williams blocks him and stops him dead. Ferotte steps up into the pocket and Beisel starts to turn towards him and Ricky Williams just reaches out and shoves Beisel 2 yards away from Ferotte. Ferotte cuts back behind Williams going to the outside. Beisel turns to pursue and Williams cut blocks him to stop him dead again as Ferotte takes off on the outside which is Beisel's contain assignment. Ferotte gets 5 yards before he goes into slide.
    1st - 4:58 - OK
    2 TE set. Beisel blitzes - gets stopped at LOS. He didn't get thru but that's not unusual.
    1st - 4:34 - Can't tell - Beisel drops into coverage - can't tell what his assignment would be
    1st - 4:02 - Terrible
    First and goal from the 2. Ball is snapped and Beisel rushes forward directly behind Warren. As Ricky Williams crosses the 5 yard line, Beisel is standing facing towards the middle of the line totally unblocked. Instead of launching forward towards the middle where Williams is headed, Beisel hops sideways toward the goal line essentially paralleling Williams. He never even makes a move in the slightest toward the middle where Williams is coming thru.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2006
  28. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    5,377
    Likes Received:
    16
    Ratings:
    +18 / 1 / -0

    Frerotte, Ricky Williams, Jets ???
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2005
  29. shakadave

    shakadave Rookie

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2005
    Messages:
    2,232
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    One of the best reads of the year --- thanks!
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2005
  30. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rookie

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,094
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Arrrgh. Make that Miami. Thanks.

Share This Page