Beisel Revisited

Discussion in ' - Patriots Fan Forum' started by arrellbee, Jul 28, 2006.

  1. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    I know a lot of folks are expecting Beisel to be the starting ILB with Bruschi.

    I thought I would take in look in slo-mo at his plays in the Jacksonville to see what me might expect. After all, this game was a playoff game which should mean players are putting out their best effort. And Beisel at that point had a full season of coaching and practice reps as well as a reasonable amount of game reps, so this game should provide a pretty good indication.

    1st - 13:23 - OK
    Beisel was Will. Run was right to his gap. Beisel stood up the RG and the runner cut to the LG slot
    1st - 12:39 - Poor
    QB 1 step drop. Quick pass to left WR at LOS (line of scrimmage). Beisel was Will. Didn't react to pass by heading toward receiver. Just stood there and then was pushed back by RT coming thru. Beisel just took block and didn't try to disengage. After Hobbs had made the tackle and 5 other Patriots had closed to the site of the tackle, Beisel finally arrived and patted Hobbs on the helmet.
    1st - 11:57 - Can't tell anything
    Beisel was Will. (I'm not going to repeat that anymore. As far as I could tell, he was always playing the weak side Will position while Vrabel played the strong side Mike.)
    Shotgun. Pass play. Coudn't tell if Beisel was covering anybody out of the backfield.
    1st - 7:59 - Poor
    I'll analyze this in a separate post.
    1st - 7:21 - Very Poor
    Run over LG (RB may have made a mistake because blocking was to open up RG slot which would have been Beisel's gap).
    Beisel lined up 4 yards off of LOS. At snap he moved up 2 yards to spot directly behind Wilfork's down position and stopped. The OC and OLG double teamed Wilfork toward LG side. Meanwhile, Beisel, after he stopped, backed up a yard ?? and waited for the double team to push Wilfork backwards to him. He then got blocked by the OLG who wasn't even trying to block him. Beisel ignored filling the gap over RG that was left by the double team on Wilfork. As mentioned, the RB actually cut to try to hit over the LG position which is where the double team blocked Wilfork to. Beisel meanwhile ended up pushing under the OLG and went to the ground on his knees without even making a move to the runner.
    1st - 6:40 - Beisel out - 4-3 defense (as far as I could tell, Vrabel played ALL 4-3 sets as ILB.
    1st - 1:41 - A Gimme
    Beisel blitzed off his right side. Bad snap out to defensive right. RB fell on the ball in front of Beisel. Beisel fell on top of RB without ever being blocked or even having to swerve. A total gimme based on his blitz assignment.
    1st - :57 - OK
    Beisel blitzing up the middle. He was basically unblocked. He got to QB just after the throw. Didn't appear to affect the throw.
    1st - :38 - Beisel out. Dime defense.
    2nd - 15:00 - couldn't see Beisel
    2nd - 12:02 - Couldn't see Beisel until play was over when he came in to celebrate
    2nd - 11:28 - Couldn't tell
    Beiel rushed forward on snap to meet OL and then stopped and dropped back. Don't know what his assignment might have been but he ended up in the middle of the field with no receiver near him.
    2nd - 10:47 - Not involved
    Beisel as Will on right side of Defense. Play went to left side of defense.
    2nd - 10:02 - delay of game
    2nd - 9:42 - couldn't see Beisel
    2nd - 9:04 - Beisel out. 4-3 defense
    2nd - 6:50 - Couldn't tell
    Screen to Beisel's side but he wasn't there. Couldn't see where he was and no way to know what his assignment was.
    2nd - 6:08 - Couldn't tell
    Beisel rushed up to LOS and stopped. Don't know what kind of assignment that could have been.
    2nd - 5:02 - Couldn't tell
    Beisel dropped back into short coverage but there were no receivers in his area. No way to know if he was supposed to be in a zone or if he should have been in a man-on-man.
    2nd - 4:45 - Chad Brown was Will
    2nd - 4:08 - Chad Brown was Will
    2nd - 3:51 - couldn't see ILB
    2nd - 3:32 - Poor (Beisel back in)
    Run into Beisel's weak side gap. He got pushed outside of his gap and was pushed down as runner came thru his gap. ALL 3 other LBs got to the runner at the same time pursuing all the way from their original positions to tackle runner for 1 yard gain.
    2nd - 3rd - Chad Brown was weak ILB on 9 more plays that I could tell.
    4th - Was entirely 4-3 defense with Vrabel playing ILB.

    So the summary of plays where Beisel was in and you could tell something definite summarizes as:
    1 play - Gimme
    2 plays - OK
    3 plays - Poor
    1 play - Very Poor
    The problem is that the 2 OK plays were nothing special, while the 3 Poors and the Very Poor were what ILB is all about.
  2. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    If you have the tape or a DVD of the Jacksonville playoff game, there is one play in the game that would be really interesting to watch in real slo-mo detail.

    The play was in the 1st at 7:59.

    Certainly one play would never even come close to defining what a LB is all about. But this play, for whatever one play is worth, raised some serious questions for me.

    On the face of it, Beisel pursued down the line and tackled the RB cutting outside for a 4 yard gain and got credit for a solo tackle, although Samuel came up and hit the RB head on at the same time.

    Play is lone RB intending to hit the ORG slot which was Beisel's gap. Beisel stands up ORG and RB bounces it to the outside. Beisel disengages and slides down the line to make the tackle, 4 yard gain.

    So what's concerning?

    Vrabel had released from his block on the far strong side and had been able to take 5 full strides pursuing while Beisel had managed to take two small sideways steps trying to disengage his block. Colvin had come all of the way from the opposite end of the LOS. The result was that by the time Beisel got disengaged to pursue, both Colvin and Vrabel had managed to get down the line to within less than a step of Beisel. The concern is how long it took Beisel to disengage compared to Vrabel, for example.

    In the time it took Beisel to reach the RB, Samuel had been able to come all of the way up and get there at the same time.

    Even earlier in the play, as the ORG came off the LOS, there was a gap between him and the ORT. The RB could have continued on into the that gap, which was Beisel's responsibility. But the RB apparently thought that Warren was beginning to move into the gap and planted at the LOS and then cut it outside. It is pure speculation, but you have to wonder why Beisel just allowed the ORG to engage him in a stand-up block instead of trying to shed the block enough to penetrate the open gap to meet the runner. If he had been able to slide down the side of the ORG he may well have also been able to reach the RB as he was planting his foot to make the cut and could possibly have tackled the RB behind the LOS before he could get into his cut.

    So, I rated this play as poor. If you look at the play, you might rate it differently, who knows.
  3. Nice analysis and breakdown there,lets hope he can be a bit more of a playmaker this year for us.with tedy back in there lets home Beisel can play with a bit more confidence and fire this year.
  4. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    TC begins the new season for Beisel.
  5. flutie2phelan

    flutie2phelan Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Keep up this kind of dogged pursuit of the facts, a-bee.

    Even if you're not entirely correct, your readers will end up knowing more than we started with.
    If you are correct ... we might surmise why
    Mincey and Roach make the 53 ... ahead of Beisel.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2005
  6. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    Sometimes (frequently ?? ?? naaah) you come up with some really great questions NEM.

    I was absolutely certain that Belichick and Pioli had pulled off another huge coup. Early in the season, I didn't really look at Beisel in any game tapes in detail and was more or less figuring it was what I had heard a lot of other folks say - he was having trouble picking up the Patriots complex system and learning how to make the reads. However, I figured with more experience he would be a solid member of the LB corps for some years.

    In the Jets game and the Jaguars game, I began to get a different impression watching the games real time than other folks seemed to. So I went back and took a first cut at the Jets and Jaguars games and came away with a dismaying impression that what Beisel doesn't have isn't really much to do with understanding how to effectively play within the system, but was much more just plain poor fundamental LB play.

    So I went back today and did a complete play by play of the Jaguars game and that is what I posted.

    I don't have a very good feeling at all at this point. He may well make the roster because the LB list is so thin and inexperienced. But I think one or more of the 'no names' better not have a great preseason or he could really be on the bubble. And Chad Brown may have just taken another one of those slots.

    By the way, dismayingly, the Jets tape showed play that was signficantly worse LB play than the Jaguars game. I hope to have time over the next couple days to break down the Jets tape also and provide what info I can.

    Last edited: Jul 28, 2006
  7. captain stone

    captain stone Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    No Jersey Selected

    Monty Beisel is nothing more than a STer and backup OLB.
    He does not have the intelligence, toughness, strength or heart to play ILB.
    Memo to FO: you get what you pay for, so stop shopping at walmart.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2005
  8. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #37 Jersey

    Excellent post, Arrellbee. I do love these analyses.

    At the moment, Beisel appears to be the first-team Will and I think it will take a lot to displace him before the first real game. One thing going in his favor is his determination to improve, as shown by gaining weight and strength. Likely, he'll do better this year and may be good enough that with the stellar LB's and DL's around him, he'll be able to make plays.

    Last year, in TC, we were all raving about him and it wasn't until the regular season, against starting offenses at game speed, that he got lost. Once again, I think we won't know if he's improved until September.

    We can only hope, since I don't think there's anyone in front of him or even close to him right now, at his position, without taking Vrabel out of the OLB spot.

    Which means that signing Chad Brown might have been intended to provide depth at ILB given Vrabel's versatility.
  9. arrellbee

    arrellbee Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

    It's going to be interesting. I am inclined to think that they will keep Vrabel inside since he has proven that he can be a VERY effective ILB and that they will try to fill the OLB slot with Banta-Cain, Mincey, Gardner, and now Chad Brown as possibilities. It would be an interesting possibility that Chad Brown would return to OLB which is by far his main strength and success over the years. Just my inclination.

    Which do you suppose gets the higher emphasis - stronger ILB combination or slightly weaker ILB combination and stronger OLB. It seems to me that they might lean toward the stronger ILB, especially since Bruschi has proven to be very mobile in getting to the outside which can make up for some lack of production there. And in watching Vrabel at ILB in the last games of last season, I was totally impressed with his range and pursuit from the ILB position so if he ends up on the left side of the defense instead of Bruschi, he also could provide some compensation for a lesser strength on the outside. In that scenario, the more important capability for the OLB would be to be strong against the run and be able to seal the corner. Who knows if Chad Brown makes it to the 53 man roster. And if he does, I have no knowledge if his pro-bowl caliber play at OLB included solid run defense. He is a very intriguing signing but there may not be any real possibility that he makes the roster.

    Another thing to consider is that the depth chart at ILB is really short with Claridge gone. And if Beisel isn't a viable option or gets cut, who else besides Vrabel could they plug in there ??

    My guess is that Beisel will see a lot of snaps with the 1st team in camp and in the first couple preseason games. If we still see him in preseason games 3 and 4, maybe he's hacking it. If not, we'll probably know before finals cuts that Belichick has written him off.
  10. Alk

    Alk In the Starting Line-Up

    I agree, a full season under his belt should do wonders. Not to mention the fact that he was nicked up pretty bad last season. Broken fingers I believe.
  11. Mike the Brit

    Mike the Brit Minuteman Target Supporter

    Disable Jersey

    BB's June 14 Press Conference

    Q: What do you think of Monty Beisel as a football player? What do you like about him?

    BB: He’s a smart kid. He works hard and is in good condition. I think he has a lot of positives and a lot of good traits and a lot of things going for him.

    I share your scepticism, Arrellbee. What BB didn't say: he's tough, committed and has excellent technique.

    I hope that we're proved wrong.
  12. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    #37 Jersey

    BB may switch these guys around right into the reg season. If Chad Brown looks good at OLB, it gives them a chance to put Vrabel at ILB against strong running teams. But if Beisel's increased bulk means he can stop a big RB with a full head of steam, BB can leave Vrabel at OLB.

    It's all about putting the best four LBs on the field and, in this case, I think Beisel has to be better at ILB than Brown is at OLB, since Vrabel can play either position. It's also situational. Against a good passing offense, you want Vrabel rushing the QB. Against a good running offense, you want Vrabel stopping the inside run (but who seals the edge -- can Brown do it?).

    My bet, after 1 day of TC, is that Beisel starts at ILB for most of the reg season and the rotation includes Brown with some regularity.
  13. State

    State In the Starting Line-Up

    #17 Jersey

    Past performance is the best indicator of future success. I no longer give much credence to "ready to break out" hype, esp. concerning Beisel. He might be the weak link in the defense, assuming no major injuries in the defensive backfield.

    His major problem seems to be overpursuing. He's a cut or two behind Bruschi at taking the proper angle, even if he may be bigger, stonger, and just as fast.

    Putting himself into position to ALMOST make a play is not good enough. His instincts just aren't good enough to be a consistent force, although physically he looks the part of an NFL middle linebacker.

    I hope this season proves me wrong. I do, though, believe the hype of Ben Watson.
  14. mcbee

    mcbee Banned

    Beisel is synonymous with the word "Bust". It's not "strength", "knowledge" or anything's a lack of aggressiveness almost a fear of making a tackle. How this guy even played college ball is a mystery. Why BB wanted him is an even bigger mystery.

    No aggressiveness, no instincts, gone. He can life all the weights in the world, but it won't matter.
  15. belichickaholic

    belichickaholic On the Game Day Roster

    Is it "fear" or is it "indecisiveness"?

    To me, he looked like he wasn't quick enough to read and react. Always arriving late and often being in the wrong place. In the beginning, the poor kid looked like a chicken with it's head cut off! But IMO as the season went along he started to, at least, be where he was supposed to be.

    Linebackers have to be able to read and react simultaneously. If it takes them even one second between reading and reacting, they're usually going to get beaten.

    Tedy took some 5 years to learn that. It would be interesting to know how long it took Phifer to learn it. Both had the benefit of learning from Ted Johnson and Bryan Cox.(wish we still had HIM!) Beisel and Brown didn't have that luxury.

    We may be asking this kid to learn too quickly, but to judge him by only one game is unfair IMO, even if that one game came at the end of the season.

    Maybe it is fear, but let's see how he does through camp and preseason.
  16. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member Supporter

    #75 Jersey

    I agree with you NEM. That's right, there is nothing wrong with your computer, I agree with you.

    According to Curran, Biesel was playing most of last season with three badly mangled fingers on one hand. Try playing LB one handed.

    Last year was last year. If he was a wash out, BB would have sent him packing. BB has no problem doing that.

    I think that Mr. Biesel will be a good player for us this year.

    Besides, have you ever seen his wife?
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  17. mgteich

    mgteich Veteran Supporter

    I add my support for Beisel. He came into the system and played next to the rock Chad Brown as the other ILB (Chad first time at ILB?), with a decimated defensive backfield, and was injured a good part of the year. For most here, these are a bunch of excuses for this useless backup.

    Some here disagree. More importantly, bb disagrees. BB apparently had little need to make any major moves (draft or free agency) at linebacker. BB HAS a starting ILB that he has confidence in. He did pick up a veteran backup in Gardner and could keep Alexander. Also, he could Vrabel inside if OLB's Banta-Cain or Mincey or Chad Brown really step up.

    I think bb now has what he signed up last year, two veterans who can start as needed. Beisel has moved up to be the starter in bb's eyes. Who am I to disagree? BTW, Chad Brown stayed in great shape and waited for Scotty's call.

  18. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    I agree with you PatsNutme and mgteich. Monday Morning LB is all nice, but the facts remains that:

    (1) People had unrealistic expectations for Beisel...
    (2) Beisel looked bad because it was his first year and he was over his head with the play calling...
    (3) What's worse was that Chad Brown was even worse than Beisel at play calling...
    (4) Beisel looked bad because he was underweight. The first statement BB said when he signed was that Beisel needed to put some weight on. 23-something was not going to cut it.
    (5) Beisel had three broken fingers. Because he is underweight (compared to Ted Johnson) he need hand-technique to disengage. Being a practically one-armed LB means you will be slow to the ball and will not disengage from blocks.
    (6) At the beginning of the season, he had a tendency to overpursue and get out of position....
    (7) At the end of the season, he was probably was told by BB not to overpursue, was playing hurt and so wasn't selling out full-bolt on plays (so what? he his hand was broken... and he was still out there... that tells me something good about his toughness.)
    (8) People like a "name" to blame the bad defense on. Wilfork NT play and Sey's absence, the revolving door at SS, CB breakdowns had just as much to do with it as the ILB play. The whole thing was "effed" up last year. New year, new season, injuries will be healed.

    Listen to what Vrabel (a vet) learned last year by playing inside....
    "When there's a good edge outside it allows the inside guys to slow down; I learned that. I went inside and noticed that with Rosey (Colvin) and Willie (McGinest) you can slow down. It's not like you have to fly outside because the ball will eventually come back in. I said that to Tedy (Bruschi) and he said, 'That's what i think when you're out there.' When i moved inside I realized how important that is to the defense."

    Read this article from last year to realize what we were up against:
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  19. PATRIOTS-80

    PATRIOTS-80 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

    I truly believe that the last paragraph of my post is the reason that both players on the team. Chad is moved outside because that is his strength. Bruschi will impeccably play Mike, so all Beisel has to do is listen, learn, and man his one complimentary spot.

    The Miami game seems to be a game that peers into '06. Matt Cassell, Bam Childress (playing CB and WR), Eric Alexander, and didn't Chad play OLB in that game?
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2006
  20. spacecrime

    spacecrime Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

    I think this is key. BB ought to be able to evaluate LBs. He's worked with them before.
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 3, 2005

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