Bedard vs. the Stoopids Listening Thread

[mosey threetupu]

Hightower looks faster and in better shape, contributing to his breakout season. He should be in All Pro consideration.

Gymrat anyone?

 

[Rob0729]

I didnt know Mankins was worth 30 points in KC

I don't agree with Bedard either. I think the Pats lose to KC no matter who they had at guard even John Hannah in his prime. I think they lose to the Dolphins too, but at least you can make a case for that game.

 

[Tom meets Kaepernick]

I really love Revis. What he does for this team is outstanding. Last game is what I believe we'll see from Revis from here on out barring injury. Pay him whatever his market dictates. If that is 16 million, so be it. Unless you want to go back to the 2011 Pats defense then by all means go for it.

 

[BradyManny]

I don't agree with Bedard either. I think the Pats lose to KC no matter who they had at guard even John Hannah in his prime. I think they lose to the Dolphins too, but at least you can make a case for that game.

I think you can make a strong case for the Dolphins game given we went scoreless in a whopping seven possessions in the second half.

 

[patfanken]

Some comments on the comments.

1. Bedard went off the rails trying to make the point that the Pats might be undefeated if they hadn't traded Mankins (though he did admit that they are better off right now).

2. If Revis took a 3 year 45MM deal, he could join Tom Brady as a guy who gets a boat full of money, yet gains the perception that he is taking a "home town deal". Think about it. He could get very close to top money, cement his lagacy, and shed the greedy image, all for a couple of million over 3 years that would go to taxes anyhow.

3. Mazz should NOT be allowed to talk footbal, especially contracts. I don't think he's ever discussed a player's contract without demanding that the team pays him at the top of the market.

One one hand. I'm sort of excited about the Red Sox signings, and hope they get Lester as well, but I find these contract so obscene that it's getting increasingly hard to root for any of these guys.

4 I love Jerad Mayo as both a player and leader. Listening to Felger, just proves how under rated he is by most of the mediots and altogether too many fans here. HOWEVER, a $10+MM cap number can't be tolerated for a guy who has missed the bulk of the last 2 years with injuries. I don't think it will be a problem to get that number down to $6MM in some sort of negotiation. Mayo understands how it goes. He had gotten top dollar the last 2 years for just 10 games. He'll understand the fairness of it all. I am not worried that it can be worked out

5. So right off the top of my head, between Amendola, Mayo, and some Herandez dead money alone, the Pats should pick up enough cap space to sign or resign at least one significant body.

 

[Ring 6]

Some comments on the comments.

1. Bedard went off the rails trying to make the point that the Pats might be undefeated if they hadn't traded Mankins (though he did admit that they are better off right now).

2. If Revis took a 3 year 45MM deal, he could join Tom Brady as a guy who gets a boat full of money, yet gains the perception that he is taking a "home town deal". Think about it. He could get very close to top money, cement his lagacy, and shed the greedy image, all for a couple of million over 3 years that would go to taxes anyhow.

3. Mazz should NOT be allowed to talk footbal, especially contracts. I don't think he's ever discussed a player's contract without demanding that the team pays him at the top of the market.

One one hand. I'm sort of excited about the Red Sox signings, and hope they get Lester as well, but I find these contract so obscene that it's getting increasingly hard to root for any of these guys.

4 I love Jerad Mayo as both a player and leader. Listening to Felger, just proves how under rated he is by most of the mediots and altogether too many fans here. HOWEVER, a $10+MM cap number can't be tolerated for a guy who has missed the bulk of the last 2 years with injuries. I don't think it will be a problem to get that number down to $6MM in some sort of negotiation. Mayo understands how it goes. He had gotten top dollar the last 2 years for just 10 games. He'll understand the fairness of it all. I am not worries

5. So right off the top of my head, between Amendola, Mayo, and some Herandez dead money alone, the Pats should pick up enough cap space to sign or resign at least one significant body.

1) yeah
2) I'm sure 'being labelled greedy' means nothing to Revis
3) Yup
4) Since 4 mill is amortized bonus, you would be asking him to give up 2/3s of his contract, cutting from 6 mill salary to 2mill to get there. Surely Jerod Mayo could get more than 2 mill on the open market.
5) Amendola and Mayo may cost the Pats millions to be playing for someone else.

 

[patfanken]

1) 6 mill salary to 2mill to get there. Surely Jerod Mayo could get more than 2 mill on the open market.
5) Amendola and Mayo may cost the Pats millions to be playing for someone else.

I think much like Mankins, its going to be less about Mayo's salary and more about his cap number. IIRC he'd due "only about $6MM in cash, though his cap number is $10MM. Without specuulating too much, way too early, I'm pretty sure there are ways to drop that cap number significantly (lets say $4MM) without cruushing Jerad financially.

As for Amendola I plead ignorance to what would be necessary to drop that $6MM number down to the $2MM that would better reflect his potential contribution in 2015. Nor am I sure bout what the cap consequence would be to cut his contract or release him. That's what Miguel is for.

 

[Miguel]

FYI - when I update my blog post that looks at Revis' comparables I will include J.J Watt's contract

 

[shmessy]

Funny how we are down to giving out "duds" for 4 and 3 QB pressures compared to how we started the season. I really, really like the trajectory of this years team.

OK, I'm having a bit of a tough time with 2 of the 3 duds being OL's.

Especially against the Detroit Freakin' Lions front line????????

They will not play another defense that good the rest of the way.

Brady was not sacked once in 53 pass attempts!!!!!!

The running game averaged 4.5 yards per carry!!!!!!

How 'bout a little context, Greg?

He DID say it was hard to find duds, but why make it up if there weren't any?

 

[Oswlek]

Doesn't feel great with the o-line if Stork goes down. Thinks Kline is showing some stuff, but the rest of the back ups inside suck.

Hmmmm.... what is Bedard basing this on, the first few games? I ask because everyone stunk then, even several of the current starters, so it certainly seems possible that the issues weren't solely about talent. This seems to be supported by Kline, who was right there in the suck brigade, now looking like a competent backup.

 

[Galeb]

I think much like Mankins, its going to be less about Mayo's salary and more about his cap number. IIRC he'd due "only about $6MM in cash, though his cap number is $10MM. Without specuulating too much, way too early, I'm pretty sure there are ways to drop that cap number significantly (lets say $4MM) without cruushing Jerad financially.

GMs look at dead money as something already spent. Too look at it differently completely undermines the ability to judge a players worth. I expect BB and Mayo to take a hard look at his rehab and prognosis before renegotiating a contract or extension.

 

[Oswlek]

GMs look at dead money as something already spent. Too look at it differently completely undermines the ability to judge a players worth. I expect BB and Mayo to take a hard look at his rehab and prognosis before renegotiating a contract or extension.

I would contest this. If a player has $7mm in dead money and $3mm in cash outlay, the team is absolutely going to consider the $10mm cap hit just as much as they are the cash spent. Particularly if they can do a post June 1 release and get the dead money spread over two seasons.

Dead money is a perfect sunk cost example because it has an impact on your ability to sign players today. Even more so when you can still manipulate the bookkeeping of that cost.

 

[Ring 6]

I think much like Mankins, its going to be less about Mayo's salary and more about his cap number.

Not to Mayo.

IIRC he'd due "only about $6MM in cash, though his cap number is $10MM. Without specuulating too much, way too early, I'm pretty sure there are ways to drop that cap number significantly (lets say $4MM) without cruushing Jerad financially.

No because the 4 mill of amortized bonus cannot change.
Mayo will cost 4mill plus his salary of 6mil. The only cap relief you get is a dollar for dollar reduction in his salary. In other words to save 4 mill he has to agree to play for 2 mill. He wont.

As for Amendola I plead ignorance to what would be necessary to drop that $6MM number down to the $2MM that would better reflect his potential contribution in 2015. Nor am I sure bout what the cap consequence would be to cut his contract or release him. That's what Miguel is for.

Again, you can't really use cap number because part is buried.

 

[Oswlek]

No because the 4 mill of amortized bonus cannot change.
Mayo will cost 4mill plus his salary of 6mil. The only cap relief you get is a dollar for dollar reduction in his salary. In other words to save 4 mill he has to agree to play for 2 mill. He wont.

Or you could ask him to convert his $6mm to a $2mm salary with $250,000 weekly roster bonuses. You'd get an immediate $2+mm of relief due to the NLTBE nature of most of those with both parties being protected.

 

[Ring 6]

Of you could ask him to convert his $6mm to a $2mm salary with $250,000 weekly roster bonuses. You'd get an immediate $2+mm of relief due to the NLTBE nature of most of those with both parties being protected.

Do you think Mayo is going to accept getting cut from 6 mill to 2mill?
That doesnt save 4 mill unless he never plays.

 

[Sciz]

I think you can make a strong case for the Dolphins game given we went scoreless in a whopping seven possessions in the second half.

Depends which Mankins you would have gotten. Everything said about Cannon and Devey week 1 could have also described Mankins in the first Dolphins game last year. Mankins' average 2013 level would have absolutely helped the Pats in week 1 this year, but the Dolphins are one opponent in particular who he was legitimately awful against for that game last year.

I also don't know how much people want to project his Bucs performance to predict how he'd have helped out the Pats, but I do know that he didn't contribute to much of anything for the Bucs in week 1. He only played 10 snaps before he got hurt and missed the rest of the game.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Branch is much better than Chris Jones and should start over bim.

I agree that Branch is a premium DT. But he is not what Chris Jones is. Branch is a Run Stuffer and pushes the upper pocket closed, by walking his man backwards.

Chris J is a penetrating DT with the size I wish Easley had. In a sense he is a pair with Easley, like Branch is a pair with Wilfork. Easley and Jones pass rush by getting around their man, on the way to the QB.

Different strokes for different folks and different jobs. Glad we have a pair of both types.

 

[VrabelJr]

I loved Barron, Hightower and Kirkpatrick that year. I was a Hightower advocate pre-draft that year so I'm thrilled to see what we are seeing now.

I've always felt that Hightower got snubbed in the BCS championship for best defensive player. Upshaw didn't deserve it.

 

[VrabelJr]

I agree that Branch is a premium DT. But he is not what Chris Jones is. Branch is a Run Stuffer and pushes the upper pocket closed, by walking his man backwards.

Chris J is a penetrating DT with the size I wish Easley had. In a sense he is a pair with Easley, like Branch is a pair with Wilfork. Easley and Jones pass rush by getting around their man, on the way to the QB.

Different strokes for different folks and different jobs. Glad we have a pair of both types.

I actually like the type of pressure Branch creates. When you drive your man back it allows LBs/DEs to loop inside and surprise the QB right in his face. Almost any QB is going to see a pass rusher like Chris Jones or Easley coming from a mile away.

 

[manxman2601]

I've always felt that Hightower got snubbed in the BCS championship for best defensive player. Upshaw didn't deserve it.

I absolutely agree with this. Hightower was outstanding in that game.