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Bedard: Aqib Talib trade signals change in Patriots philosophy

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Nov 4, 2012.

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  1. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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  2. denverpatsfan

    denverpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow! A bit harsh I think.
  3. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    .... and Bedard doubles down, again.
  4. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The conscience of the team is gone. Myra Kraft is gone; the franchise lives on and re-invents itself.

    Be serious! Signing Dennard and Talib is much more like the raiders or bengals than like the patriots.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  5. Franchise12

    Franchise12 Rookie

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    We get it Bedard, You are Butt hurt over the Talib Acquisition. why does it mean that we have to throw out the idea that the patriots prefer captains and leaders because we traded for Talib. Perhaps Belichicks drafting of leaders made a trade like this possible. Perhaps if our locker room wasn't as strong as it is due to its leadership, we wouldn't have made this trade.

    Stupid Article.
  6. Modest

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    Hey Bedard................................






    [​IMG]
  7. Shockt327

    Shockt327 Rookie

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    There’s only one thing we do know: The Patriots unquestionably have become a win-at-all-costs organization. They’ll entertain the acquisition of any player, no matter his issues, as long as he is talented.

    Wow, what a douche...
  8. hodgey

    hodgey Rookie

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    Stupid article. People should not hold a football player to higher standards than themselves or their friends & family.
  9. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Awful article. He decided to tell people what they think then tell them they are wrong.
    There is an agenda behind this. I don't know what, but this is written like he is personally offended by someone.
  10. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ty Law's "cousin" says hello. Randy Moss would, too, but he's too busy getting ready for the 49ers game.
  11. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Rookie

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    For non-subscribers, an excerpt:

    I love Bedard's work — it's a pleasure to read the work of an actual adult — and I can see some of what he's saying, but I think this is a bit overwrought. Sounds like something the Globe's whiny children like Gasper or Shaughnessy or Mazzerrotti would write.

    Sure, I raise my eyebrows a bit at the trade (and Bedard does a nice job outlining Talib's past bad decisions); but I can't agree with the idea that it's a shockingly new slippery slope. First, it's the NFL - -these are tough guys, and many come with baggage. The Pats like to kick tires on guys with spotty off-the-field records; it worked with Dillon and Cox and Moss. Not so much with Haynesworth. But Albert didn't stick around long, did he?

    I can live with "if you come here and play well and behave, it helps both of us." My only gripe is that the cost for both Haynesworth and Talib has been pretty high. If Talib helps the Pats win a Super Bowl it will be because he did what he was supposed to do on AND off the field. I can live with that.
  12. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This idiocy that Myra Kraft was the conscience of the franchise is ridiculous. A nice elderly lady was put in front of the camera a few times, so all of a sudden the Patriots only want choir boys?
    Every NFL team has thugs on it. Many of them.
  13. Ian

    Ian Administrator Staff Member

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    He's not from around here and doesn't have the bias we do so he simply calls it as he sees it, hard to fault him for that. I thought the breakdown from his film review on Talib was an interesting and fair assessment. I'm also curious to see how he plays when he's finally on the field.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  14. stelfans

    stelfans Rookie

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    He mad at someone or something..
  15. hodgey

    hodgey Rookie

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    I think Ian needs to ban any patsfan poster who has been in a fight or smoked a joint. Oh yeah ban anybody who's yelled at an official! Oh crap on second thought scrap that!!
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Kevin Faulks jacket, Brandon Spikes medicine cabinet, and David Meggetts character dropped a line as well.
  17. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    I didnt know about this sport back in 2000 so had to google abt Ty law. Blast from the past

    Patriots suspend Law for finale
  18. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I disagree Ian, I think his article is full of bias. I don't know where it comes from, but writing an article to define what fans of a team believe then telling them they are wrong is coming from a point of bias.

    Calling something a change in philosophy by inventing a philosophy you want to believe they had, then discounting every other move that conflicts with your new theory is not an objective approach.
  19. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    More interesting is how he claims Talib plays best with straight up man to man. Curious how the pats play him.
  20. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bryan Cox will, no doubt, be stopping by later, along with Willie McGinest, Brandon Meriweather, Ted Washington and Corey Dillon. They'll all be talking about how drafting Aaron Hernandez was the end of "the Patriots way".
  21. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I look at is as a fundamental misunderstanding of what's meant by "the Patriots way". I see the same thing from posters here, from other media members, and from posters on other forums.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  22. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As you might recall, there was lots of discussion of the double standard applied to stars like Ty Law, a double-stand I strongly agree with. When one of your stars has an issue, that is one thing. When you use draft picks in order to secure a player with known character issues, that is quite another.

    In the end, I get it. We are desperate. We were desperate when we drafted Meriweather. We were desperate when we drafted Dennard (who plays based on a second court decision delaying his trial). We are desperate now.

    There is nothing inherently wrong with winning at all costs. There is nothing inherently wrong with having the philosophy of judging and choosing player only on their Sunday performance, and ignoring the rest. There are teams that succeeded with that approach for years.

    IMHO, the patriots have taken a different approach in the past. I'm fine with the change; I get it. I am even fine with posters jumping all over the raiders, bengals and lions when they make similar decisions. After all, for us, it is patriots right or wrong.

  23. I.M. Fletcher

    I.M. Fletcher Rookie

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    The blind spot in his thinking is that Talib now has free reign to continue down a destructive path. Any and all outburst will result in a very short stay for Talib.

    I understand where Bedard is coming from, but the reason you can trade for a player like Talib is because they keep drafting and keeping players who coaches "would want their daughter to marry" and captains of teams. It creates a situation where Talib isnt infectious to others, but more likely to buy in.

    I think Bedard is the best pats beat writer going, but being new to the scene does diminish his long term narrative of the Pats.
  24. Brady_12

    Brady_12 Rookie

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    Corey Dillon would wave hello but his hands are cuffed.

    EDIT: Oops, missed Deus' post mentioning him...
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  25. Urgent

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    I've been a Pats fan a long time, and am quite familiar with the biases of numerous reporters. "Why can't we get players like that" and "duplicitous pond scum" are quotes familiar to many of us. There are also plenty of gratuitous suck-ups on local radio.

    I don't detect a bias from Bedard, especially just because he wrote an article that is negative about the management of the Patriots. He raises a perfectly valid point. By making this move, the Patriots accept the possibility of this criticism.

    Those that point to the 'conscience' of Myra can, in fact, point to some significant action. Anyone who recalls the Christian Peter situation can use that as evidence of her influence and impact. However, Corey Dillon was acquired during her tenure as well.

    Bedard clearly has a strong opinion on this transaction, and it's his role to share it. Others liked the trade. It makes for good analysis.

    I share the feedback of others - the analysis of Talib's play is more interesting. According to Bedard (and echoed by others) Talib is best head-up on the receiver, and performs worse lined up off the receiver, or to the inside or outside. His strength is not how the Patriots play defense. Bedard also compared him to McCourty, and termed Talib a more instinctual player and McCourty a better athlete.

    The Patriots will not have any contact with Talib until after the bye week, after the Buffalo game. So there's not an opportunity to work him into this defense. This isn't like trading for a lead-off hitter or relief pitcher - dramatically harder to just pencil him into the line-up. Got to be a focus on the play-offs.

    It will be very interesting to see if the defensive secondary adjusts more to Talib's capabilities, or the player tries to adjust to a different system.
  26. Danger Zone

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    Wow.

    A hatchet job on the Patriots if ever I read one.

    ----

    Bedard wrote: This is a reclamation project like no other for the Patriots. The other players who were brought in here with less-than-stellar reputations didn’t have a consistent recent history of violence. Ted Washington, Corey Dillon, Randy Moss, Albert Haynesworth, and Chad Johnson were more malcontents than anything..

    Hayneworth didn't have a recent history of violence? Really?

    -Haynesworth after missing with his first foot stomp, lands with a second on the helmetless face of the defenseless Gurode narrowly missing an eye. Gurode needed 30 stitches and complains of blurred vision and chronic headaches to this day. When a penalty flag was thrown for this stomp, Haynesworth took off his helmet and threw it into the turf.

    -Haynesworth was charged with assault during a road-rage incident.

    -Haynesworth was charged with misdemeanor sexual assault after groping a waitress and sliding his credit card through her cleavage.

    The Patriots bringing in and letting Haynesworth go, if anything, should make you respect the Patriots more.

    It's the behavior WHILE a Patriot that we should be concerned with. The first altercation Haynesworth had with a coach, he was let go.

    As for Talib, I'm sorry, Bedard, but everything I've read about him seems to show that he is a good kid albeit with some anger issues.

    The adderall suspension (though I believe he now has a prescription for it) is a non-issue IMO.

    The only huge red flag for me at first was charges against Talib for firing a pistol at his sisters boyfriend.

    Do a little research like a good reporter should and you find out that the man that Talib shot at was the live-in boyfriend of his sister. It was not his gun that was fired, but the gun he took from his mother at the scene.

    The boyfriend, a registered, repeat sex offender was charged with sexual contact with a child, and in jail with over a quarter of a million dollar bond at the time that Talibs charges were dropped by the DA.

    Frankly Bedard, I'm liking this guy a hell of a lot more than I do you.

    EDIT: And while she might not approve of his methods, I'm guessing Myra would applaud Talib for protecting children from the man that molested them.
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2012
  27. lamafist

    lamafist Rookie

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    It's funny how many times the sports media have taken the Patriots to task for breaking with the media narrative that's been imposed on them.

    It's always seemed to me that when it comes to personnel, Belichick is very interested in a player's "character" -- but only so far as it will affect his ability to contribute to the team.

    I'm generally a big fan of Bedards, but I think he should stick to writing about football, and leave the hand-wringing to the columnists. Though really, while I don't want to go back to the days when sports reporters essentially functioned as flaks, I'd much prefer that the sporting press was less trigger-happy when it comes to petty moralizing, mostly based on limited information.

    I also find it kind of suspect that a kid like Talib gets branded as a bad guy, while Roethlisberger has for the most part been able to get the sports media to turn the page on the whole rape + sexual predation thing.
  28. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's a petulant and sanctimonious article from someone who's normally a very good and balanced writer. I agree that there seems to be a hidden agenda or ax to grind here, though I'm not sure what it is.

    The Pats have always taken chances under BB. Some have worked out, some haven't. Some players who were not particularly considered to be "bad apples" turned out to be locker room cancers, such as Adalius Thomas.

    Talib's a risk. Everyone knows it. He'll be on a short leash. Everyone knows it. Get over it. The Pats have a big need, there aren't a lot of other options, and Talib has a much needed skill set. It's a gamble. If it doesn't work out, he'll be gone PDQ. Who knows? Maybe he'll thrive in a more structured environment around some leaders. By most accounts he's not that bad a kid, mostly mixed up, and he's a hard worker. And he's in a contract year where he's motivated to be on good behavior. I don't think this is a Chris Henry, Pacman Jones, or Albert Haynesworth kind of situation where you can't expect a zebra to change his stripes. But we'll know more in a few months.

    Right or wrong, this seems like too aggressive a shot to take at one of the finer organizations in the NFL.
  29. lamafist

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    Per Bedard:
    Maybe the kid should get a prescription to Adderall or something.
  30. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Its not that he wrote a negative article, its the article that he wrote.
    He attached characteristics and qualities to the organization, essentially called them arrogant for them (note he attached them, they didn't claim them) then called them out for not being what he just said they were.


    Its an urban legend that Myra Kraft was behind releasing Christian Peter, not evidence. Given that there is even less evidence of any other example of impact would suggest the urban legend is fiction.


    Again, giving his opinion is fine, a hatchet job is not.

    The other issue with Bedard; he is a very good reporter and a very bad analyst. His assessment of the tape has little real value.
    What he should be doing as a REPORTER is reporting what the front office, players, teammates from Tampa, Schiano, Morris, etc, etc are saying.


    I think the biggest point is that in a secondary that has struggled, the level of talent just increased.
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