Beating "The Blueprint": Brady on the go?

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

Nope I don't remember any. I haven't seen their usual bubble screen in a while either.

There was one play where they looked like they were running the bubble screen to Welker, but it looked like Polamalu jumped the route so Brady re****ed his arm.

Polamalu had a great game helping on Welker.

Regards,
Chris

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

You are making up that those teams defended us the same way. The similarity is that we had bad games, not the way they defended us.
The Jets dropped 8 into zone coverage last year, the Steelers played man. How is that 'learning from what the Jets did'? If everyone learned from what the Jets did why can't the Jets do it?

The Jets didn't spend the whole game in zone coverage. They mixed it up. Often they locked down the outside receivers in man-coverage and bracketed Welker when he was in the slot. This year, the Pats did what they should have done (particularly against the weaker-than-last-January Jets front): Ran BJGE down their throats.

They have. How did they do vs the Ravens in the game after the playoff game? How did they do vs the Jets this year?

In 2010, the Pats stuggled *mightily* for 3 quarters at home vs. Baltimore. Pats were 2 for 8 on 3rd down to that point with 10 points scored in total. In the 4th quarter, the TD drive to pull within 3 featured some balanced offense highlighted by two huge back-to-back runs by Woodhead. The game-tying FG drive was saved by a sick throw by Brady to Gronk while being pulled down by Suggs. Let's also give the D credit for forcing a 3-and-out between scoring drives. In OT, the Pats went 3-and-out TWICE. Fortunately the D forced the Ravens to punt *three* times and the Pats were able to pull it out on their 3rd OT drive.

I already covered the Jets game above.

The only similarity is that in those 2 games (the Bmore game was about the defense and Welker being out not scheme) is that those teams did something they had never done before.
If you think that is anything but lightning in a bottle I don't know what to tell you.

Add in Ravens 2007 (I remember everyone *****ing about Welker being held all game while being manned up), the Jets games in NY in both 2009 and 2010 and the playoff games and I've got enough bottles of lightning to power my neighborhood.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Triumph]

There isnt a team in the league that doesnt have games where it struggles vs a good game plan by a good team.
The fact that good defenses have to abandon what they do and create a gameplan against us to hope that maybe they can trick us by doing something they don't normally do or do best is proof that while every offense ever is susceptible to bad games if teams must try to beat us with smoke and mirrors we should recognize that it rarely works rather than whine about the few times it does.
Its like we are talking about the .380 hitter and saying he only hit .360 against AllStar pitchers who break their tendencies and throw pitches no one expects them to, so he is figured out.

Whine about the few times the Pats get jobbed by a better game plan. Really?

First off, its not a few times anymore. Since the 2005 Denver playoff game to be more precise.The Steelers last Sunday and Jets last post season did not abandon what they do best. Its called playing defense.

The Pats used to be the ones tailoring custom game plans week to week so no team could figure out what was coming next.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Anecdote = Run the frikin ball!

Yes and you also dink and dunk up and down the field. Down in Foxborough they (including Brady) seem to have forgotten how that offensive combo won them SB's.
Btw, no defense can stop 6'6" Gronk if Brady goes vertical when passing to him. Gronk is horribly underutilized in critical 3rd down short yardage situations. The Patriots do not exploit his height the way they should in key situations.
The main reason this D blueprint works is because the Patriots do not adjust to what the D is doing.
No better example than last years Jets playoff game. The run was there all day long and they refused to exploit it. Too much in love with Peyton Brady's arm.

 

[BradyManny]

We have the best offense in football. If defenses play us honest, they have no chance other than the dumb luck of bad bounces or just catching us on a bad day.

Andy, I respect your posts and enjoy reading them. But this is just sugarcoating. Plain & simple.

The Patriots haven't won a playoff game since January 2008. Meaning, if we manage this upcoming postseason - about half a decade would've passed since we last won a do or die game.

If we have the best offense in football, we have to start showing it against the best teams in the league in the highest leverage situations.

We might have the best QB in football, though at the moment Aaron Rodgers is giving him a run for his money, but none of it matters if our offensive line can't protect against an elite 4 man rush, and they haven't been able to do that in years. Years.

That's why the Ravens, Jets, Giants and the Steelers last weekend have given us problems. If you can get pressure without sacrificing coverage, you are going to cause problems for ANY offense, no matter how good.

 

[jal]

The offense has been sagging since opening day. Yards / play (by week): 8.8, 7.5, 7.0, 6.7, 6.2, 5.4, 4.3.

We have to get big plays back into the gameplan. That means more TE down the seams, more play action (establishing the running game), more Taylor Price and less Branch / Ochocinco. Big plays help tremendously to balance out negative plays (i.e., sacks).

A major part of the problem with beating more physical defenses is that we don't have pure athletes on the outside - we have specialists that fit the system well. The tight ends and Taylor Price are the only players on the roster that can create athletic mismatches against physical coverage. Getting them more involved, particularly down the field, would be long-run productive.

Another method is being more dedicated to establishing the power running game to set up play action passes deep. This should particularly be the case when they cover our tight ends with defensive backs. We have given up on the run (admittedly after poor early success) in back to back games against Dallas and Pitt. Against Dallas, I think it made some sense in that they could cover our tight ends with linebackers (Sean Lee in particular), so there was no advantage for us. But against Pitt, they were putting nickel and dime packages out there against our base 2 TE set. We HAVE to run on that. Moving forward, none of the other elite teams can cover our tight ends with linebackers so we have to show we are perfectly willing and effective in running the ball on a nickel defense.

 

[Betterthanmost]

Talented and well-coached defenses like NYJ, Baltimore and (now, after Sunday's showing) Pittsburgh seem to have the "blueprint" on making Brady struggle: Disguise where the rush is coming from, don't blitz, play man-coverage and hope the confusion causes Brady to hold the ball longer and the rush to get to him, or have him rush his throws into coverage before the receivers can get separation. Teams need to have the talent to pull it off (the Jets might drop off this list as the Pats will counter by rushing the ball down their throats...opening up play-action), but I think this D is effective due to two Pats shortcomings:

1. The receivers don't have the talent to beat their defenders one-on-one in enough time for Brady to get an open throw off. Welker comes closest as he's shifty as heck, but if he's doubled (like Polamalu spent plenty of time doing) then the rest of the guys can be single-covered.

2. Brady is zero threat to run. Brady is disciplined to a fault in that he will move around in the pocket and wait...and wait...and wait...for someone to get open, or the blocking will finally break down and he'll have to hurry the throw or even get sacked. Sometimes he's facing only a 3-man rush, but the 8 guys in coverage are just giving him nowhere to throw. He doesn't require anyone to stay in a short zone to spy on him. The Jets, Ravens and Steelers use this to their advantage.

Since I'm not going to wait around for a set of receivers who can get separation within 2-3 seconds after the snap, I think the Pats should look at addressing the latter issue. I think Brady needs to start taking off downfield more to start pulling in those defenders who otherwise can focus on only the receivers. He doesn't need to turn into Mike Vick. He needs to do it just enough to keep the D honest, which should open up the passing game.

The Pats can even design plays to do this. Actually, they already had in 2008 when Cassel was thrust into the starting role. The Pats used to send Faulk on a pattern up the gut right to the MLB in coverage, then he'd veer off to the side and take the coverage with him. Once the LB moved out of the way, Cassel would sprint up the gut for good yardage. Brady and the Pats should give this play a shot.

The Pats are going to have to get past at least one of these teams in January and are going to have trouble unless they come up with something new to break that stifling man coverage scheme. This would be something new.

Regards,
Chris

I think BOB read this and added it to the game plan. 5.6 per carry. I loved it, but don't want to see that shiete again. Go tell em to quit running Brady, he is slower than cold molasses.

 

[Jangles]

You are making up that those teams defended us the same way. The similarity is that we had bad games, not the way they defended us.

So when the Pats lose it's because they played bad. They've never been beat by anyone but themselves?

It says patsfans.com in my address bar, but I swear I'm on Jetsinsider.

 

[TheComeback]

the way to beat it. without receivers who can't get much separation, is to have a good running game. unfortunately, the pats didn't have much of a running game against the ravens (laurence maroney) or jets, and the steelers are great at stopping the run. it worked against dallas because the cowboys aren't a great run stopping team like the steelers were. the giants are near the bottom of the league in this category as well.

you can also beat a team that plays good man-to-man coverage by employing the use of certain routes - crossing routes, etc. that will confuse the DBs. BOB should have adjusted right away to to this, but as we know from last year, he's only really good when the team has the lead.

The Cowboys were the #1 run defense in the NFL when we faced them. We also ran all over the Steelers last year when they were the #1 run defense.

We can definitely do it. The Ravens would be tougher.

As for your second point, we were down by 10 points early today before scoring three touchdowns in a row.

EDIT: Wow, just realized this thread was necro'd from three weeks ago. Really?

 

[fgssand]

So when the Pats lose it's because they played bad. They've never been beat by anyone but themselves?

It says patsfans.com in my address bar, but I swear I'm on Jetsinsider.

That is 100% correct, these Patriots never are beat by anyone but themselves.

Also, don't forget, when the Jets win, they are lucky - some day their luck might actually hold on through a superbowl like it did in 1967.

 

[BlueThunder]

Go tell em to quit running Brady, he is slower than cold molasses.

Disagree...Let him take off if he has open field...slide in for a few yards gain rather than an INC pass or INT.....One more weapon in his offensive arsenal....It's not a designed play...but if the opposing D is going to give you that much room, for God's sake TAKE IT ! :rocker:

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I think from 2001-07, Brady wasn't at all reluctant to put the ball under his arm and run, if not downfield that at least in a forward direction while looking for a receiver. He was never a running QB, but he'd get the 5 yard gain vs. waiting too long and risking a sack. Remember the snowbowl TD run? or the deke on Urlacher? I think he took fewer sacks back then because he'd decide more quickly to run.

That all went away after the knee injury in 2008 - you could even argue that he stopped doing it in 2007 because that offense was so dominant. Only this year am I seeing him regain that as part of his game.

I think it's great - not that we need him to get positive running yards, but we DO need him to avoid taking losses, and/or fumbling as he's attempting to throw. The later he hesitates on that decision, the more likely there's trouble. Yesterday he not only put it under his arm and ran on a couple of occasions, he also scrambled forward on the big play to Deion. A year or 2 ago those might all have been sacks.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Chris my man, I thought of your thread while watching TB Sunday. Seriously he NEEDS to do this to keep defenses from cheating. He can always slide...and break his knee brace.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

All's I knows is that when his knee hit the turf on his second "slide" yesterday (the one where he took a divot larger than John Daly's butt), I helds my breaths.

I'm probably a minority in this thread, but I don't want to see the lad running on purpose unless its for one yard that we really need on third or fourth down in a critical situation and a sneak will catch the other guys by surprise.

If the middle is wide open in front of him and he just can't resist the temptation, then I want to see him start his slide when the nearest defender is about 20 yards away. And, before he does even that again, I want him to get one of his buddies from the Sawx to help him work on that "slide," which yesterday was more like a "nosedive."

 

[RobertWeathers]

All's I knows is that when his knee hit the turf on his second "slide" yesterday (the one where he took a divot larger than John Daly's butt), I helds my breaths.

I'm probably a minority in this thread, but I don't want to see the lad running on purpose unless its for one yard that we really need on third or fourth down in a critical situation and a sneak will catch the other guys by surprise.

If the middle is wide open in front of him and he just can't resist the temptation, then I want to see him start his slide when the nearest defender is about 20 yards away. And, before he does even that again, I want him to get one of his buddies from the Sawx to help him work on that "slide," which yesterday was more like a "nosedive."

Agree. At the end of the game, I want TB's uniform cleaner than when he put it on after it came out of the wash.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

All's I knows is that when his knee hit the turf on his second "slide" yesterday (the one where he took a divot larger than John Daly's butt), I helds my breaths.

I'm probably a minority in this thread, but I don't want to see the lad running on purpose unless its for one yard that we really need on third or fourth down in a critical situation and a sneak will catch the other guys by surprise.

If the middle is wide open in front of him and he just can't resist the temptation, then I want to see him start his slide when the nearest defender is about 20 yards away. And, before he does even that again, I want him to get one of his buddies from the Sawx to help him work on that "slide," which yesterday was more like a "nosedive."

Without taking advantage of open middles Brady lets the DL load up one side on a pass rush and lets the LBs on D double cover the edges. If the other team exposes its throat you HAVE to rip it out otherwise they have a 12th+ man advantage. Seriously. I think TFB and BOB saw game film where defenses were cheating on them and they were not taking advantage.

 

[Leave No Doubt]

Disagree...Let him take off if he has open field...slide in for a few yards gain rather than an INC pass or INT.....One more weapon in his offensive arsenal....It's not a designed play...but if the opposing D is going to give you that much room, for God's sake TAKE IT ! :rocker:

This. And that's Brady's attitude too I'm sure. He'll do what it takes, he doesn't play to avoid injury or protect himself, that's for sure lol. Yesterday's game was killer until the OL got it together, or at least that's how it seemed to me but UGH! His slide was the least of MY worries in that particular game.

As far as figuring out Brady I don't know, but I think this injury related roster movement is working to his advantage right now and when the injured DO return I'd expect BB to mix it up on both sides of the ball. Plus they've got a few versatile players who could do almost anything at anytime; some of the Pats' best years had players like that.

It's not just about the gameplan anyway, it's also about the players playing heads up, smart ball and not just seeing the opportunities but also being willing to lay it all out there and go for it. Edes' sack was a perfect example of that. Unexpected too

 

[The Brandon Five]

Without taking advantage of open middles Brady lets the DL load up one side on a pass rush and lets the LBs on D double cover the edges. If the other team exposes its throat you HAVE to rip it out otherwise they have a 12th+ man advantage. Seriously. I think TFB and BOB saw game film where defenses were cheating on them and they were not taking advantage.

I swear the Jets must have known that Brady was hurting in the divisional game b/c he never ran despite them completely abandoning the space in front of him. He should get up and fake a limp every once in awhile to goad defenses into doing the same.

 

[BradyManny]

I agree completely with the premise of this thread. As much as it pains me to see Brady out of the pocket and on-the-run, he has to keep the defense honest. If he can run and pick up between 3-5 yards in those situations in which everyone is covered, it's better than an incompletion.

IF he can do this without hurting himself. Of course.

I would compare Brady running when everyone is covered to Ortiz laying down a bunt when the shift is on. It's not pretty. It makes you nervous, especially re: Brady, but if it has to be done, it has to be done.

 

[Funktopus]

I liked the runs. I hated the slides. Prediction: TB refines sliding technique in practice this week and we see an improvement during the next game.