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Beating "The Blueprint": Brady on the go?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by chris_in_sunnyvale, Nov 1, 2011.

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  1. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Talented and well-coached defenses like NYJ, Baltimore and (now, after Sunday's showing) Pittsburgh seem to have the "blueprint" on making Brady struggle: Disguise where the rush is coming from, don't blitz, play man-coverage and hope the confusion causes Brady to hold the ball longer and the rush to get to him, or have him rush his throws into coverage before the receivers can get separation. Teams need to have the talent to pull it off (the Jets might drop off this list as the Pats will counter by rushing the ball down their throats...opening up play-action), but I think this D is effective due to two Pats shortcomings:

    1. The receivers don't have the talent to beat their defenders one-on-one in enough time for Brady to get an open throw off. Welker comes closest as he's shifty as heck, but if he's doubled (like Polamalu spent plenty of time doing) then the rest of the guys can be single-covered.

    2. Brady is zero threat to run. Brady is disciplined to a fault in that he will move around in the pocket and wait...and wait...and wait...for someone to get open, or the blocking will finally break down and he'll have to hurry the throw or even get sacked. Sometimes he's facing only a 3-man rush, but the 8 guys in coverage are just giving him nowhere to throw. He doesn't require anyone to stay in a short zone to spy on him. The Jets, Ravens and Steelers use this to their advantage.

    Since I'm not going to wait around for a set of receivers who can get separation within 2-3 seconds after the snap, I think the Pats should look at addressing the latter issue. I think Brady needs to start taking off downfield more to start pulling in those defenders who otherwise can focus on only the receivers. He doesn't need to turn into Mike Vick. He needs to do it just enough to keep the D honest, which should open up the passing game.

    The Pats can even design plays to do this. Actually, they already had in 2008 when Cassel was thrust into the starting role. The Pats used to send Faulk on a pattern up the gut right to the MLB in coverage, then he'd veer off to the side and take the coverage with him. Once the LB moved out of the way, Cassel would sprint up the gut for good yardage. Brady and the Pats should give this play a shot.

    The Pats are going to have to get past at least one of these teams in January and are going to have trouble unless they come up with something new to break that stifling man coverage scheme. This would be something new.

    Regards,
    Chris
  2. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    Anecdote = Run the frikin ball!
  3. Ron Sellers

    Ron Sellers Rookie

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    I don't know, I'm a bit leery of the idea of Brady running with the ball.
  4. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    I'm a big advocate of the liberal use of sliding feet-first.

    Regards,
    Chris
  5. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Rookie

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    the way to beat it. without receivers who can't get much separation, is to have a good running game. unfortunately, the pats didn't have much of a running game against the ravens (laurence maroney) or jets, and the steelers are great at stopping the run. it worked against dallas because the cowboys aren't a great run stopping team like the steelers were. the giants are near the bottom of the league in this category as well.

    you can also beat a team that plays good man-to-man coverage by employing the use of certain routes - crossing routes, etc. that will confuse the DBs. BOB should have adjusted right away to to this, but as we know from last year, he's only really good when the team has the lead.
  6. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    Pittsburgh hasn't been as adept at stopping the run this year. They have been better against the pass oddly enough. We Choseto run the ball only 11 times so go figure. I chock it up to organizational arrogance!
  7. Brady_to_Moss

    Brady_to_Moss Revis Island is here PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The way to beat it? Get 5+ yards per rush. The have to start to back off if you do this
  8. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    I think the Pats can run on the Jets this year. This is why I said the Jets might drop off the list of Ds that can shut down the Pats. The Ravens and Steelers are another issue, though. I'm confident the Pats will face one or both of these teams in January so they better have an answer other than "good running game"...although "enough of a running game" to use formations (RB behind Brady) to keep defenses honest would definitely help.

    Do we have proof that they don't do this? I thought it's one of the tricks they do to get Welker open...not always obviously, but quite a bit. I'm curious how else they could better utilize this strategy.

    Regards,
    Chris
  9. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    Let's assume vs. Baltimore and Pittsburgh you can't. Then what?

    Regards,
    Chris
  10. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I will never understand why after we own the Steelers who are a dominant football team, then lose once to them we 'struggle with teams like them'.
    Do we really need to create threads discussing and lamenting the horrendous state of affairs where good teams play us tougher than bad teams?
    Frankly, I don't understand why people waste the time.
    It is very simple.
    We have the best offense in football. If defenses play us honest, they have no chance other than the dumb luck of bad bounces or just catching us on a bad day.
    So what happens? Teams create exotic, risky gameplans hoping to catch lightning in a bottle and give us something we never expected. A couple of times a year it works.
    Do you really expect this team to never struggle when a team breaks every tendency against us and risks getting blown out (see Pitt last year, Jets 45-3) in order to gamble on it?

    What follows is Patsfans crying and whining that they figured us out, then BB and Brady go out and prepare for that approach and beat it.

    In 2007 supposedly the Giants had the blueprint. Since that game we have scored the 2nd most points in the NFL, (most if you dont count the year Brady missed) and won the most games.
    In 2009 the Ravens figured us out, and we were done. Since then, we have scored the most points in the NFL and won the most games.
    Last year the Jets had the blueprint. This year we lit them up.

    It is a stupid standard to expect that the best offense in the NFL, the one DCs spent all offseason trying to figure out how to attack will never have a bad game when defenses create a gameplan that doesnt resemble anything they have done before, will never be caught by that and have a poor game.
    Its also a stupid standard that every time it happens it last one game, but thats what is really happening.
  11. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The proof is that we beat everything anyone tries to do with us, just not always the first time we see it.
  12. chris_in_sunnyvale

    chris_in_sunnyvale Rookie

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    90% of the teams the Pats play don't have the personnel and/or coaching to give the Pats fits. This post isn't about them. The Steelers historically...and stubbornly...stuck to their zone blitz that Brady picked apart. They obviously learned from what the Ravens and Jets have done successfully in the past...and even going back as far as what Miami did to make Brady struggle in the 2001-2003 timeframe with the man coverage and Jason Taylor providing the pressure.

    If you think the recent successes of the Jets, Ravens and Steelers is "lightning in a bottle", I think you're not paying attention. These teams, due to their talent and coaching philosophy, *match up well* vs. the Pats' passing game. The Pats need to do something to address this.

    Regards,
    Chris
  13. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    When that happens in the playoffs it spells No Super Bowl. The Pats dont seem to adjust very well on the fly. That used to be one of the teams strengths when Weis was around.

    The only silver lining about this loss is that the Pats get to play this Sunday.
  14. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    Did the Pats use any bunch WR formations? I dont recall seeing any.
  15. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You are making up that those teams defended us the same way. The similarity is that we had bad games, not the way they defended us.
    The Jets dropped 8 into zone coverage last year, the Steelers played man. How is that 'learning from what the Jets did'? If everyone learned from what the Jets did why can't the Jets do it?



    No thats the point I AM paying attention and you are not.

    They have. How did they do vs the Ravens in the game after the playoff game? How did they do vs the Jets this year?

    The only similarity is that in those 2 games (the Bmore game was about the defense and Welker being out not scheme) is that those teams did something they had never done before.
    If you think that is anything but lightning in a bottle I don't know what to tell you.
  16. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There isnt a team in the league that doesnt have games where it struggles vs a good game plan by a good team.
    The fact that good defenses have to abandon what they do and create a gameplan against us to hope that maybe they can trick us by doing something they don't normally do or do best is proof that while every offense ever is susceptible to bad games if teams must try to beat us with smoke and mirrors we should recognize that it rarely works rather than whine about the few times it does.
    Its like we are talking about the .380 hitter and saying he only hit .360 against AllStar pitchers who break their tendencies and throw pitches no one expects them to, so he is figured out.
  17. juny

    juny Rookie

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    No Jersey Selected

    Nope I don't remember any. I haven't seen their usual bubble screen in a while either.
  18. AndyJohnson

    AndyJohnson PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You can't do a WR screen when dbs are jamming the receivers.
  19. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    I think our defense being on the field so much we get one offensive series a quarter is more the problem. As has been said, our offense annihilates teams most weeks and given a chance to study an opponents successful game plan on defense, will again.

    I bet if Brady had the ball enough to get in a rhythm, the results would have been familiar.
  20. SVN

    SVN Rookie

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    A lot of these games esp on the road have a few plays which can define the game. This steelers game, the first drive when they went 3 and out and didnt see the ball effected them running the ball. Not to mention the oline protection wasnt very good at all on critical downs. Sometimes the solution is as simple as win 1-1 battles. That was the problem in jet game last yr with the oline and same here in the last game and in the cowboys game.
    They convert the first 3rd down in the first quarter , they wouldve been more balanced and couldve helped the game further.
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