BB's Trade Gambles and the 2015 Draft

[mayoclinic]

Going into training camp, 3 of my major areas of long term need for the Pats looking towards 2015 included:

1. Another quality TE, especially a move TE. I have not been particularly impressed with the 2015 class, though Jesse James looks like a potential athletic freak. Move TE/WR David Funchess has been a popular early mock candidate for the Patriots.

2. Another quality young DT to groom opposite Dominique Easley, given Wilfork's age. This could possibly be an NT, but given the evolving nature of the game a player who can play both the 0/1 and 3 techniques would be an appealing alternative. The 2015 DT class looks pretty ordinary at this point.

3. A successor at LG to Logan Mankins, who I assumed would be a potential cap casualty in 2015. There are a ton of intriguing guys in the 2015 draft who could possibly play this role, including Brandon Scherff, La'el Collins, and Spencer Drango.

In the past 2 weeks, BB has made 2 significant trades, affecting all 3 of these positions:

- Jerel Worthy is an intriguing talent who was mis-used as a 5-tech in Green Bay, who has struggled with injuries, and who has underperformed. He has some motor and technical issues, but he has the raw talent and skill set to play a number of DL roles. It's by no means a given, but if the light goes on and Worthy finally realizes his potential, he and Dominique Easley could be a very intriguing long-term tackle combo.

- The trade of Logan Mankins to TB affects 2 positions. The Pats have moved on from Mankins a year earlier than I expected, and have an extra 4th round pick to deal, plus some cap space. They could make a play for Alex Boone, and certainly have the draft capital to go after one of top prospects for next year. The cap space saved may also allow them to keep Marcus Cannon, who could be an important long-term cog on the OL, either inside or out. Meanwhile, Tim Wright is an intriguing move TE/WR player, with much of the same skill set as Funchess.

The bottom line is that IF Worthy and Wright pan out, the Pats could solve 2 of these 3 needs this year (possibly all 3 if they trade for Alex Boone), and have the draft capital to go after a top LG for 2015.

Thoughts?

 

[manxman2601]

Was watching Florida State's LG Josue Matias. There's a bit of Greg Robinson too him, although not as dominant. 6-6, 330lbs and surprisingly agile when getting to the second level.

 

[mayoclinic]

Was watching Florida State's LG Josue Matias. There's a bit of Greg Robinson too him, although not as dominant. 6-6, 330lbs and surprisingly agile when getting to the second level.

Matias is on my short list - probably the most interesting college guard prospect to me. He gets overshadowed by his teammate Tre Jackson, who is more of a RG road grader, but to me Matias is more interested. Kind of a "poor man's Mike Iupati". I've assumed the Pats would be more interested in a college tackle with guard ability like Brandon Scherff, La'el Collins, or Spencer Drango, but Matias is certainly someone to keep an eye on.

 

[manxman2601]

Matias is on my short list - probably the most interesting college guard prospect to me. He gets overshadowed by his teammate Tre Jackson, who is more of a RG road grader, but to me Matias is more interested. Kind of a "poor man's Mike Iupati". I've assumed the Pats would be more interested in a college tackle with guard ability like Brandon Scherff, La'el Collins, or Spencer Drango, but Matias is certainly someone to keep an eye on.

I would have thought that too but perhaps the post Dante era requires a bit of resetting of what BB might do. Also, it's worth bearing in mind that BB really doesn't value interior OL that highly, Mankins being the only exception.

 

[mayoclinic]

I would have thought that too but perhaps the post Dante era requires a bit of resetting of what BB might do. Also, it's worth bearing in mind that BB really doesn't value interior OL that highly, Mankins being the only exception.

Another option that really hasn't been looked at would be Marcus Cannon moving to LEFT guard. Cannon has played RT, LT, and RG is pre-season. I can't recall if he has played any left guard as well. That could be an interesting twist. Mike Reiss has suggested that the Pats value Cannon quite a bit, and he is in a contract year. This certainly frees up the money to extend him.

 

[Luxusdk]

Wonder if the pressure up the middle have forced them to move toward "Bigger" types of Gaurds - Cannon / Halapio would add that.

 

[mayoclinic]

Wonder if the pressure up the middle have forced them to move toward "Bigger" types of Gaurds - Cannon / Halapio would add that.

I had thought of that. I don't know if Halapio is ready, but a line of Solder - Cannon - Connolly/Stork - Halapio/Connolly - Vollmer would have a bit more beef inside that what we've had recently.

 

[manxman2601]

Another option that really hasn't been looked at would be Marcus Cannon moving to LEFT guard. Cannon has played RT, LT, and RG is pre-season. I can't recall if he has played any left guard as well. That could be an interesting twist. Mike Reiss has suggested that the Pats value Cannon quite a bit, and he is in a contract year. This certainly frees up the money to extend him.

I speculated about Brennan Williams in the Mankins thread. He's apparently drawing interest again from NFL teams following his injury and we know the Pats were high on him. Signing him could certainly make a permanent Cannon move inside a real possibility....although Cameron Fleming probably already does that. I wonder if Williams could play LG?

 

[manxman2601]

In terms of needs for next year following today's activity, I see it thus.

1. Pass rush. Whether it's a long-term Nink replacement or a quality backup, I think getting some pass rush help beyond what Nink and Jones offer is the biggest priority. Although...

2. If Revis isn't re-signed longer-term, CB1 becomes, by far and away, our biggest need.

3. OL. We'll have to see how the likes of Devey, Kline, Halapaio, Fleming and Stork play before we can really talk about the needs on the OL.

4. In terms of DT2 to play alongside Easley, it will be interesting to see how Siliga performs this year. He showed some ability to penetrate last year. Was that a flash in the pan or can he be the disruptive NT that Wilfork has been. That would be huge in that I think a big bodied disruptive player like Wilfork or Lotulelei is the perfect accompaniment to a penetrator like Easley.

5. A Ridley replacement. I don't think he's getting re-signed. This could either come through the draft or FA.

6. Safety. I think this depends on any Ryan/Arrington experiment along with any development by Wilson and Harmon who have both looked serviceable in pre-season.

7. Aside from the CB thing above (no Revis), I don't think there's a definite first round need right now. Some of you will say LG and you might be right but bear in mind that aside from Mankins who BB is calling the best OL he's ever coached, BB has never made significant investments in the interior OL. So I'm liking the idea of a luxury pick and right now, someone like Shaq Thompson or an edge bending speed rusher that can drop in coverage too would suit the notion of a high upside luxury pick.

 

[mayoclinic]

In terms of needs for next year following today's activity, I see it thus.

1. Pass rush. Whether it's a long-term Nink replacement or a quality backup, I think getting some pass rush help beyond what Nink and Jones offer is the biggest priority. Although...

2. If Revis isn't re-signed longer-term, CB1 becomes, by far and away, our biggest need.

3. OL. We'll have to see how the likes of Devey, Kline, Halapaio, Fleming and Stork play before we can really talk about the needs on the OL.

4. In terms of DT2 to play alongside Easley, it will be interesting to see how Siliga performs this year. He showed some ability to penetrate last year. Was that a flash in the pan or can he be the disruptive NT that Wilfork has been. That would be huge in that I think a big bodied disruptive player like Wilfork or Lotulelei is the perfect accompaniment to a penetrator like Easley.

5. A Ridley replacement. I don't think he's getting re-signed. This could either come through the draft or FA.

6. Safety. I think this depends on any Ryan/Arrington experiment along with any development by Wilson and Harmon who have both looked serviceable in pre-season.

7. Aside from the CB thing above (no Revis), I don't think there's a definite first round need right now. Some of you will say LG and you might be right but bear in mind that aside from Mankins who BB is calling the best OL he's ever coached, BB has never made significant investments in the interior OL. So I'm liking the idea of a luxury pick and right now, someone like Shaq Thompson or an edge bending speed rusher that can drop in coverage too would suit the notion of a high upside luxury pick.

We'll have to see how the new guys - especially Worthy and Wright - work out. Hopefully they will lessen the need at the DT and TE positions. I'm counting on Revis being extended long term, and I think the odds are in favor of Cannon staying at this point. My very preliminary short list right now:

1. DE. A LDE opposite Chandler Jones would be a huge asset. The 2015 draft could be loaded with guys like Shawn Oakman, Shilique Calhoun, Dante Fowler and Bud Dupree.

2. OL. Depends on what happens with the youngsters, as you note, but I would like to see a top 100 pick spent here.

3. LB/S. Again, a lot depends on how the youngsters sort out this year, but I could see getting a mobile LB/thumper safety as a great opportunity. Again, 2015 could be quite strong in this area with guys like Shaq Thomson, Cody Prewitt, Durrell Eskridge and Eric Striker.

As for RB, don't forget that Tyler Gaffney is stashed away for 2015, so the Ridley replacement could already be in house.

 

[BobDigital]

Next year my highest priorities are in no order...

DE - Nink is 30 now i think. We a guy who can take over soon
LB - We got starters but depth is still an issue here.
SS - Be nice to get a true starter
OL - Any position be helpful. Depends on how the kids develop though

OL could be a position we might not need depending on how Stork and Kline/Cannon work out.

RB is always something to look for but as long as we keep Vereen I think we can plug in someon to run between the tackles for the most part.

 

[manxman2601]

We'll have to see how the new guys - especially Worthy and Wright - work out. Hopefully they will lessen the need at the DT and TE positions. I'm counting on Revis being extended long term, and I think the odds are in favor of Cannon staying at this point. My very preliminary short list right now:

1. DE. A LDE opposite Chandler Jones would be a huge asset. The 2015 draft could be loaded with guys like Shawn Oakman, Shilique Calhoun, Dante Fowler and Bud Dupree.

2. OL. Depends on what happens with the youngsters, as you note, but I would like to see a top 100 pick spent here.

3. LB/S. Again, a lot depends on how the youngsters sort out this year, but I could see getting a mobile LB/thumper safety as a great opportunity. Again, 2015 could be quite strong in this area with guys like Shaq Thomson, Cody Prewitt, Durrell Eskridge and Eric Striker.

As for RB, don't forget that Tyler Gaffney is stashed away for 2015, so the Ridley replacement could already be in house.

I keep forgetting about Gaffney. No way Ridley's coming back if Gaffney's injury is just a one year thing and not something more serious.

I'm not going to bank on anything regarding Revis until it's signed on the bottom line - he's pretty darn mercenary. I'm certainly hopeful but I do think the alternative needs to be considered and to my mind, that means no1 need.

As for LB/S, I was all in on Shazier or KPL in that role last year so I have no problem looking in that direction again.

BTW, have you watched Oregon's LT Tyler Johnstone? He's Nate Solder MKII. Also, OC is looking strong this year. I'm an early fan of Grasu and Reese Dismukis.

 

[mayoclinic]

As an aside, as of right now I believe that our only players over 30 are:

- QB Tom Brady, 37
- DT Vince Wilfork, 32 (turns 33 in December)
- OL Dan Connolly, 31 (turns 32 in September, not a lock to make the team)
- DE Rob Ninkovich, 30
- K Stephen Gostkowski, 30
- CB Brandon Browner, 30

 

[mayoclinic]

I keep forgetting about Gaffney. No way Ridley's coming back if Gaffney's injury is just a one year thing and not something more serious.

I don't see Ridley being cut this year, though anything's possible. But I think he's most likely gone after 2014. Gaffney will be younger, faster, cheaper, and a better receiver. BB loves cheap talent at the RB position. At the very least, Gaffney in the pipeline gives the Pats some room to wait in terms of picking up a RB.

BTW, have you watched Oregon's LT Tyler Johnstone? He's Nate Solder MKII. Also, OC is looking strong this year. I'm an early fan of Grasu and Reese Dismukis.

Agreed, though I'm still thinking more OG than tackle or center right now. Time will tell.

 

[manxman2601]

As an aside, as of right now I believe that our only players over 30 are:

- QB Tom Brady, 37
- DT Vince Wilfork, 32 (turns 33 in December)
- OL Dan Connolly, 31 (turns 32 in September, not a lock to make the team)
- DE Rob Ninkovich, 30
- K Stephen Gostkowski, 30
- CB Brandon Browner, 30

If they can sort out Revis, MCourty, Gostkowski, Solder and Vereen long-term this becomes a very strong team for the next few years. I had a go at the Pats Picker and aside from the OL and backup pass rush, this really is a strong team at every level. And if Vereen and Gronk and stay healthy, we have an offense that could match the 2007 one.

 

[manxman2601]

I don't see Ridley being cut this year, though anything's possible. But I think he's most likely gone after 2014. Gaffney will be younger, faster, cheaper, and a better receiver. BB loves cheap talent at the RB position. At the very least, Gaffney in the pipeline gives the Pats some room to wait in terms of picking up a RB.



Agreed, though I'm still thinking more OG than tackle or center right now. Time will tell.

I'm just looking at exciting talent right now. It's too early to focus too much on needs when it comes to scouting. at least, that's my approach.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm just looking at exciting talent right now. It's too early to focus too much on needs when it comes to scouting. at least, that's my approach.

That's definitely the right approach. I'm personally not a huge fan of "needs" even close to the draft, favoring adding key talent that fits your system to trying to plug holes with draft picks. I didn't mean to give the impression that I'm looking at filling needs - just thinking about where some of the holes may be.

 

[ATippett56]

2015 New England Patriots Draft Priorities:

1. Offensive Left Guard (collegiate offensive tackle)
2. Defensive Nose Tackle (Vince Wilfork will be 33 years old next season)
3. Offensive Center (Dan Connolly will be an unrestricted free agent)
4. Running Back (Stevan Ridley and Shane Vereen will be both unrestricted free agents)
5. Tight End
6. Defensive End (depends on the development of Buchanan and Moore)
7. Safety

As for the offensive center position, Ryan Wendell is underwhelming and Bryan Stork is an overrated prospect. As for the running back position, Brandon Bolden will also be a restricted free agent.

2015 New England Patriots Offensive Line:

LT: Solder, Devey
LG: xxxxx, Kline
OC: xxxxx, Stork
RG: xxxxx
RT: Vollmer, Fleming

 

[captain stone]

Completely agree with the above, though I would flip NT with DE. A Mankins replacement must be
Job #1 next off-season.

**** $eeMore brings us a 1st-rounder, yet Mankins brings us a feckin 4th + some unranked UDFA
WR-to-TE convert? I would've told Licht & Robinson in TB to suck it until they upped the offer to
at least a 2nd, or ASJ + a 3rd.

I hope Brady's health insurance is up-to-date, because we now have The Worst Interior OL in football (while our Tackles are just injury-prone).
Thanks a lot, Genius.

 

[ATippett56]

Completely agree with the above, though I would flip NT with DE. A Mankins replacement must be
Job #1 next off-season.

**** $eeMore brings us a 1st-rounder, yet Mankins brings us a feckin 4th + some unranked UDFA
WR-to-TE convert? I would've told Licht & Robinson in TB to suck it until they upped the offer to
at least a 2nd, or ASJ + a 3rd.

I hope Brady's health insurance is up-to-date, because we now have The Worst Interior OL in football (while our Tackles are just injury-prone).
Thanks a lot, Genius.

In addition, Cannon and Connolly will be unrestricted free agents in 2015.