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BB's curious Capers caper

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Tunescribe, Mar 20, 2008.

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  1. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    I find it remarkable that BB brought in Dom Capers to coach the defensive backs, and think development of this area will be the most intriguing story in training camp. BB apparently thinks a different direction in that part of the defense is warranted, yet it's a mystery as to how, and with what players. I wonder if the soft zone philosophy will be revamped somehow, and if the Giants' Super Bowl-winning miracle drive had any bearing on BB's decision to hire Capers. Even more curious is the fact that Capers (so far) has very little to work with, considering the departures of Samuel, Gay and Wilson, Rodney's diminishing cover skills and Hobbs' characteristically average play. This hopefully will be a big year for Meriweather and, hopefully, Sanders will continue to develop and improve. But there is a HUGE amount of work to be done here. If the jags brought in so far plus whatever rookies are drafted end up being all that Capers has to work with, we'd all better hope that coaching makes the difference.
  2. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Remember that in addition to the position players, each Patriots coach has a gameplan role too. A few years ago Pepper did the red zone defense and Mangini did the blitz schemes (probably not ALL of them but those coaches were responsible for those areas). In addition to the actual players in the DB, I bet Capers will have a lot of say in the blitz schemes.
  3. BradyManny

    BradyManny Rookie

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    Co-sign. I think bringing Capers aboard signals a lot of change, and I think he'll have a fair share of responsibility.

    I'd love to see the DBs get more aggressive. Hobbs is built for it. Asante wasn't, and he's gone, so with Hobbs the #1 corner for now, it'd make sense to move to a more aggressive style.

    The fact that Meriweather will be the starting FS is a big improvement. He can cover a whole lot more ground than Sanders or Harrison.

    I know I'm in the minority, but I think the secondary will be stronger against the pass then it was last season.
  4. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    You've got to figure that Capers will be more than just a rank-and-file position coach, given his credentials. He's not even a coordinator; I wonder if it's hard for former head coaches to take "lesser" positions, or if a guy like Capers is simply happy to have a job. How he blends in role-wise with BB and Pees will be interesting.
  5. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    With all the focus on Capers' experience at higher levels: game planning, head coaching, etc., I think what gets lost is that all the top coaches got there because they had tremendous ability to get the most out of individual players. During the season, a dbacks coach has maybe 8 guys. In camp, maybe 14 or so.

    I've always been impressed with how BB sits down with the LBs during a game and coaches them. How he worked one-on-one with AD during camp. I expect Capers was brought in primarily because he's very good (I don't know if he is, this is conjecture) at this one-on-one coaching and maybe Collier didn't meet those basic expectations.

    Hobbs and Sanders are good players. BB may think Collier didn't get the most out of them. The loss of Samuel and Gay is even more reason to have such a coach. All the rest that the media has been assuming -- all those head-coaching intangibles -- that's the gravy.
  6. Rob0729

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    Capers is not just a position coach, but a special assistant. That usually means he is in a consultation role as well as a position coach. I assume he has been brought in to revamp the defense and bring his agressive style.

    All the talk on this board about McDaniels and the theories how Belichick supposably had to talk to him to change up the offense in the AFC Championships and what not, I think Dean Pees has gotten a free pass. I have never seen Belichick as involved with in game strategizing with the starting defense as I have this past season. Not with Mangini as DC and certainly not with Crennel. It seems that every time they flashed to Belichick on the sidelines when the offense was on the field that he had his backed turned to the field and was doing white board work with the defense. I have a feeling that Belichick was not all that happy with Pees' in game adjustments and took over that role himself. Just a theory though.

    I have a feeling that Capers was brought in to be a co-DC with Pees and handle a lot of those in game adjustments that Belichick seemed to handle himself last year. This will allow Belichick to be more involved with the offense and special teams during the game and not just the defense. I can't see that as a head coach that Belichick wants to be too focused on either side of the ball during the games and would rather manage the overall strategy and delegate a lot of the adjustment responsibilities. I think that is one of the biggest reasons Capers was brought in.
  7. WhiZa

    WhiZa Rookie

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    He is the reason we won't be drafting CB at #7.
  8. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    Remember, also, in 1996 Belichick was the Patriots' "Defensive Backs Coach". He may have had some other pseudo title too but there's precedent for a big name coach taking a role like this.
  9. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

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    Depends on what these guys like to do. Some of the best coaches in the league are 'just' a quarterbacks coach. What got them into coaching in the first place was the pleasure of working with the one-on-one with the kids. And at least, with the Pats, you know you won't have to coach a guy like Pacman Jones.
  10. Rob0729

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    Belichick was Assistant Head Coach and DB Coach under Parcells in 1996. Capers couldn't get the Assistant Head Coach title here because Dante Scarnnechia has that title and I doubt they would slap Dante in the face by demoting him to bring in Capers. Each team can only have one Assistant Head Coach. That is is why Caper has a Special Assistant title instead.
  11. NoCal Patriot

    NoCal Patriot Rookie

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    I think We need to look to History a little.There was a time in Patriots History when Bill Belichick was brought in as a Defensive Backfield Coach to work for Bill Parcells under Al Groh who at the time was Defensive Coordinator.I think the parellels are striking.
  12. PatsFan37

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    #37 Jersey

    Don't agree with this at all. The talent was all on the offense, but I thought the defense did a pretty good job this year, especially in pts allowed. BB always does the whiteboard with the LBs, every year. With Mangini at DC, the players called out Mangini to get more aggressive.

    No, I don't think the Capers hire had anything to do with Pees in that sense, only that Pees most likely had everything to do with getting rid of Collier and bringing in Capers.
  13. Rob0729

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    I guess we will have to agree to disagree, but it is hard to argue that Belichick has ever been as involved with the defense as he was towards the end of this year. Yes, he does from time to time work with the defense, but this season he seemed to be working with them all the time. Even in the Super Bowl when the offense was sputtering and the defense played well for three quarters, Belichick spent a large portion of the game with the defense and ignored what was going on when the offense was on the field.

    I think the defense was average to above average at best this year. I thought the defense benefitted in many games from the fact that the offense forced opposing offenses to be one dimensional. If this team had an Achilles Heal this year, it was definitely on the defense especially after Colvin went down.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2008
  14. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

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    It's also possible Capers was brought in, in some part, as an insurance policy in case the Spygate stuff gets BB suspended.
  15. AndyJohnson

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    Capers is a good coach. BB did not decide after 30 years of coaching defense every effectively in the NFL that his principles are wrong and he is going to adopt someone elses.
    Capers will adapt to BB, not the other way around.
    To suggest that things will change and we will abandon BBs defensive philosophy to adopt Capers' is ludicrous. You would have to conclude that BB decided one day that he knows nothing about defense and the guy who failed twice as a HC and some decent success as a coordinator knows more than him, and he has decided his defensive philosophies are stupid.
    Not likely.
  16. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I think it was in part possibly a money thing..special assistant..maybe more reason for money for him..as well as more say in things. But I think all the D coaches get involved on the D collectively as the offensive ones do. So I am sure he will not only coach up the DBs, but help in organizing the defense. Obviously, Collier did not do what was needed..whether that was contributing a lot to the D plan and/or working with the D backs as well as he should. I think there are many things, many reasons not one that he was brought in.
  17. AndyJohnson

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    This is an epic exxageration. BB has ALWAYS been involved with the defense. The fact that once during the SB they showed him talking to the D while the O was on the field does not amount to what you are saying. Please direct me to the points in the SB that showed where he 'ignored what was going on when the offense was on the field'. I think you will find that it was an incident or 2, that he was wearing a headset so knew what was going on, and somehow those isolated seconds have created a misguided memory of BB ignoring the offense.

    I would categorize a defense that was part of being 18-1 ranked in the top few in yardage, and was #1 in points allowed through 15 games, as something more than average or above average at best.
    To be average there would have to be at least 15 defenses that were better. Not even close.
  18. ScottieC

    ScottieC Rookie

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    Yea, He's not going to get suspended.

    Not that this is the thread for it, but what the heck, if Walsh has anything, BB denies ever seeing it. He's clear - there is no law that was broken - no matter what Specter or any other jack ***** wants the public to believe.

    That won't keep the Patriots from being vilified in the media, but BB will coach.
  19. Rob0729

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    I don't think it is an exaggeration at all. Yes, Belichick has always been involved with both sides of the ball. Even the offense he has been on the sidelines working with Brady or the RB or whoever, but not to the extent he worked with the defense this year in particular late this year. I'm sorry, but I have never seen Belichick doing so much white board work with the defense.

    As for the defense ranking, it is funny that when the defense struggled in games like the San Deigo game in 2005 that people blamed to offense for the defense struggles, but when the offense is incredible people don't want to give them credit for affecting the defense. The defense was not all that great last year. Definitely not nearly as good as the number sugguest. All you have to do is look at games where the offense struggled against average to mediocre offenses like the Eagles or Ravens to see that. It is easy for the defense to not allow points when you have a three TD lead going into half time and the opposing team has to abandon their strategy and air out the ball. That has a big reason why our defense gave up so few points.

    By the way, this was a down year for defenses. There were no great defenses this year and few very good ones. So when I say average to above average, I am not talking this year per sea. I am talking about based on what is generally recognized as an average to above average defense. So this 15 teams stuff doesn't matter. To say this defense is anywhere close to the Pats' 2003 or 2004 defense which the points stats argues they are at least close is a falicy.

    The hiring of Capers does suggest that Belichick is not satisfied with Pees' job. Capers did not just mreplace Collier. He is also a special assistant which means he is advising on overall strategy. Just like Belichick wasn't just a DB coach when he basically did most of the strategy work when Al Groh was the DC (the Pats didn't switch to a 3-4 until Belichick came on board).
  20. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    Instead of being knee-jerk, go back and read the original post. I never suggested BB is abandoning his philosophy to adopt Capers', just that a change appears to be in the works that has yet to be revealed. What I AM suggesting is that BB might be planning to alter the scheme and figured Capers would be better suited than Collier to implement it and coach up the players to make it work. I will be surprised if the style of defensive backfield play this coming season is the same as last year; I'm hoping it's in a more aggressive direction. And by the way, BB is well known for incorporating the input of others, so it's not outside the realm of reason that Capers might bring some special insight/wrinkles to the table regarding d-back play that aren't already in the playbook.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2008
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