BB replaced by Dungy on NFL presentation commercial??

[Pujo]

I happen to vehemicly disagree with Dungy on the issue above, but I see him as misguided, not bad. His work with prisoners and devotion to charity are well documented.

 

[workhorse]

Religions are defacto cults - therefore Dungy is a cult member. Muslims, Hindus, Christians, etc. - are all cult members.

However, back to the main point. You still haven't answered the question...why is Dungy an "impressive human being"? Telling me that "other people also call him an "impressive human being" doesn't answer that question. Please provide the BASIS for the claim because I certainly don't see it from ANYTHING that is publicly known about Tony Dungy. All I see is an average guy who happens to be a devoted cult member, who is well liked by football players and those traits do not amount to "impressive human being". Let me know if I'm missing something

I'm not going to get into a religious debate, a football forum isn't the place for that.

You say you have to see something publicly before you have proof. By that standard, you have little proof for most abtributes with most people. Besides that, all the public comments from the people that know him best isn't enough?

 

[dryheat44]

Religions are defacto cults - therefore Dungy is a cult member. Muslims, Hindus, Christians, etc. - are all cult members.

However, back to the main point. You still haven't answered the question...why is Dungy an "impressive human being"? Telling me that "other people also call him an "impressive human being" doesn't answer that question. Please provide the BASIS for the claim because I certainly don't see it from ANYTHING that is publicly known about Tony Dungy. All I see is an average guy who happens to be a devoted cult member, who is well liked by football players and those traits do not amount to "impressive human being". Let me know if I'm missing something

Never having lost a child, I'm not sure how I would handle it, but I have never seen someone who has lost a child that age or younger, and I know several, handle it with such grace, strength, and courage. I think by definition that this makes him more than "average".

Don't get me wrong, I don't care much for the public proselytizing (probably not spelled correctly), but my definition of impressive as it pertains to people includes being able to handle these situations thusly. I see no reason to knock him because his politics and/or faith don't match up with my own.

Back to the NFLN's decision, you can feature on the commercial a man who has triumphed over great personal tragedy (and social milestone. Even though I don't think it's at all important that a black coach has won the Super Bowl, there are plenty who think it's significant, or want people to think that they think it's significant) to win the game's ultimate prize, or you can feature a man who has won that prize multiple times yet is at least peripherally, and perhaps centrally, involved in a nasty public divorce.

There are many people who care about such things.

 

[PF1996]

Never having lost a child, I'm not sure how I would handle it, but I have never seen someone who has lost a child that age or younger, and I know several, handle it with such grace, strength, and courage. I think by definition that this makes him more than "average".

Don't get me wrong, I don't care much for the public proselytizing (probably not spelled correctly), but my definition of impressive as it pertains to people includes being able to handle these situations thusly. I see no reason to knock him because his politics and/or faith don't match up with my own.

Back to the NFLN's decision, you can feature on the commercial a man who has triumphed over great personal tragedy (and social milestone. Even though I don't think it's at all important that a black coach has won the Super Bowl, there are plenty who think it's significant, or want people to think that they think it's significant) to win the game's ultimate prize, or you can feature a man who has won that prize multiple times yet is at least peripherally, and perhaps centrally, involved in a nasty public divorce.

There are many people who care about such things.

"Grace, strength and courage"? Huh??? I don't know where you hang out but the way he "handled losing a child" is generally the way it's handled by the average person. They have funerals, grieve privately and go on with their lives.

I don't really care about Dungy's cult membership, anti-gay stance or that he replaced Belichick in an NFLN commercial (although it's ironic that wining a SB suddenly makes someone whom people were speculating could get fired, a "great coach"). However, I reserve the word "impressive" for people who actually accomplish "impressive" things. You, (and apparently a large number of people) don't, which is unfortunate for those who actually are "impressive human beings".

 

[PF1996]

I'm not going to get into a religious debate, a football forum isn't the place for that.

You say you have to see something publicly before you have proof. By that standard, you have little proof for most abtributes with most people. Besides that, all the public comments from the people that know him best isn't enough?

I don't want to get into a religious debate since there is nothing about that subject to "debate". I only want you to answer the question: what makes Dungy an "impressive human being". Since you have now posted two replies without an answer to the question, I think it's fair to assume that you have no knowledge of anything that makes Dungy an "impressive human being". The fact that football players "like him" doesn't make him an "impressive human being". There are serial killers who were also "very well liked" - being "lovable" doesn't make one an "impressive human being".

 

[workhorse]

I don't want to get into a religious debate since there is nothing about that subject to "debate". I only want you to answer the question: what makes Dungy an "impressive human being". Since you have now posted two replies without an answer to the question, I think it's fair to assume that you have no knowledge of anything that makes Dungy an "impressive human being". The fact that football players "like him" doesn't make him an "impressive human being". There are serial killers who were also "very well liked" - being "lovable" doesn't make one an "impressive human being".

What makes a person impressive is a different standard to each person. It's obvious that you don't hold him in high regard. It seems you need proof for everything a person does to hold them in high regard.

Tony has many things to his credit, but you may not value his efforts. His charity efforts and prison work were mentioned earlier. Tony has considered leaving coaching to take up prison ministry. He started a mentoring program and a program to aid kids in an Indy childrens hospital. Not to mention his work with groups like Big Brothers/Big Sisters and the Boys and Girls Club. He also is a role model to many. Those who speak well of him are not just saying nice things about him most speak of how highly they value his influence on their lives. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, racism exist in the NFL when it comes to coaches and management. It is not nearly as bad as it was and a lot of that has to do with Tony and what he was able to accomplish in Tampa. He has opened the door for many possiblities to minorites.

But I suppose it really won't matter what anyone states about Tony, you seem to have already formed your opinion about him.

 

[Hoodie]

What makes a person impressive is a different standard to each person. It's obvious that you don't hold him in high regard. It seems you need proof for everything a person does to hold them in high regard.

Dungy is a hypocrite and I think that's one of the WORST things a person can be. He professes to be a good christian but condones hate. It makes you wonder whether it might have been a contributing factor in the tragic loss of his son.

 

[Hoodie]

What makes a person impressive is a different standard to each person. It's obvious that you don't hold him in high regard. It seems you need proof for everything a person does to hold them in high regard.

Dungy is a hypocrite and I think that's one of the WORST things a person can be. He professes to be a good christian but condones hate. It makes you wonder whether it might have been a contributing factor in the tragic loss of his son.

 

[reflexblue]

If they replace Belichick with Dungy (because he won the SB) then it should be a rotational thing. Who ever wins the SB, the next year they replace the coach that won it the year before.

 

[patsox23]

WOW. So Dungy has his own personal religious beliefs and he's speaks to ACCEPT an award from a Christian Group and somehow he's pushing hate? You have got to be kidding me. Show me one sentence where Dungy says he "hates" gays. Infact show me ANYTHING where he said anything remotely close to that. Can't find anything? Because i can personally guarantee Dungy has never said anything like that.

It's funny how someone can be persecuted for sticking to their own values and beliefs, who has the right to tell Dungy who and who he can't speak for???

You have completely missed the point in a way only someone insensitive to equal rights for ALL can. I'm not saying he can't think that way. I'm saying that the attitude put forth by Dungy and that so-called "Christian" organization is distinctly UNCHRISTIAN. And it is. Definitely, and without question. You can't possibly be arguing this.

 

[patsox23]

Tony Dungy has clearly been a big help to a lot of young men, and IMO did handle his son's suicide with grace. He is also an enormous homophobe who doesn't understand the most basic tenets of a religion he claims rules his life. These points are not mutually exclusive.

Congratulations to the homophobe who handled his son's death well.

 

[PF1996]

What makes a person impressive is a different standard to each person. It's obvious that you don't hold him in high regard. It seems you need proof for everything a person does to hold them in high regard.

Tony has many things to his credit, but you may not value his efforts. His charity efforts and prison work were mentioned earlier. Tony has considered leaving coaching to take up prison ministry. He started a mentoring program and a program to aid kids in an Indy childrens hospital. Not to mention his work with groups like Big Brothers/Big Sisters and the Boys and Girls Club. He also is a role model to many. Those who speak well of him are not just saying nice things about him most speak of how highly they value his influence on their lives. Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, racism exist in the NFL when it comes to coaches and management. It is not nearly as bad as it was and a lot of that has to do with Tony and what he was able to accomplish in Tampa. He has opened the door for many possiblities to minorites.

But I suppose it really won't matter what anyone states about Tony, you seem to have already formed your opinion about him.

Actually, there are objective standards that most people can agree upon. Your basis for claiming Dungy is an "impressive human being" would apply to the AVERAGE person in society. Many people do charity work of some kind. Many people are influential to others in their lives. Many public figures are held as "role models". There's absolutely nothing impressive (i.e. unique, rare, difficult, extraordinary) about what Dungy has done. The only opinion I have of Dungy is that he's a regular guy. Thus I was curious to know why this regular guy was being called "impressive". I see now that it's for no reason whatsoever except for the fact that some people in society are prone to exaggeration and hero worship. Quite irrelevant to me but I just wanted to verify that my presumption was correct. Thanks.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

All of this is very interesting... but I think we have to ask ourselves, what is the point of the 3-coach montage?

Is it...

1. Flavor-of-the-year, plus 2 all-time greats, or is it...
2. a collage of all-time greats?

I would say the initial concept was (2), a collage of all-time greats.

The question becomes, what led the NFL to pull the switch? Is it

1. Belichick should be pulled from the commercial, or
2. Dungy should be plugged into it?

If (1), you have to think it has to do with his being dragged into that divorce thing (both his, and the divorce of his um, lady friend in which a number of allegations were made.) After all, the NFL like a squeeky clean image.

If (2), you have to ask, does the NFL want Dungy in the collage, to attract:

1. African Americans, or
2. Self-proclaimed "Christians" (As opposed to the far larger group of mainline protestants and catholics, who fit the definition prior to late in the last century.)

Both (1) and (2) are large demographics not served by the retention of Belichick.

So, what we have here is either 1) purging of the scarlet-letter-laden Belichick image; 2) pandering on the basis of race, or 3) pandering on the basis of confessional group.

The Cowher omission establishes that the "flavor of the year" hypothesis is a weak one.

PFnV

 

[363839]

All of this is very interesting... but I think we have to ask ourselves, what is the point of the 3-coach montage?

Is it...

1. Flavor-of-the-year, plus 2 all-time greats, or is it...
2. a collage of all-time greats?

I would say the initial concept was (2), a collage of all-time greats.

The question becomes, what led the NFL to pull the switch? Is it

1. Belichick should be pulled from the commercial, or
2. Dungy should be plugged into it?

If (1), you have to think it has to do with his being dragged into that divorce thing (both his, and the divorce of his um, lady friend in which a number of allegations were made.) After all, the NFL like a squeeky clean image.

If (2), you have to ask, does the NFL want Dungy in the collage, to attract:

1. African Americans, or
2. Self-proclaimed "Christians" (As opposed to the far larger group of mainline protestants and catholics, who fit the definition prior to late in the last century.)

Both (1) and (2) are large demographics not served by the retention of Belichick.

So, what we have here is either 1) purging of the scarlet-letter-laden Belichick image; 2) pandering on the basis of race, or 3) pandering on the basis of confessional group.

The Cowher omission establishes that the "flavor of the year" hypothesis is a weak one.

PFnV

Good break down. pfiv.
I choose all of the above.

 

[Bo0MeR]

You have completely missed the point in a way only someone insensitive to equal rights for ALL can. I'm not saying he can't think that way. I'm saying that the attitude put forth by Dungy and that so-called "Christian" organization is distinctly UNCHRISTIAN. And it is. Definitely, and without question. You can't possibly be arguing this.

Why can't I? it seems to me like you are challenging Dungy for being a convicted Christian and standing behind his beliefs. So tell me how you (who are obviously not a Christian) get the authority to call a Christians behavior "Unchristian"???? it seems that you have no right to speak on the matter

 

[patchick]

I just assume that the league saw Dungy's SB victory as an opportunity to inject a little racial diversity into their rosy-glow NFL Films-style family portrait. No more, no less. I would be ASTONISHED if discussions of suicide, Christianity or homosexuality came up at all (let alone claims that he's a greater coach than Belichick. )

By the way, that Indiana Family Institute offers a list of "marriage facts" explaining practical reasons why it's important to get married and stay married -- economic benefits, increased life expectancy, etc:
http://www.hoosierfamily.org/marriagefacts.php
From this informative brochure, I now understand why it's so vitally important for our society to allow same-sex couples to marry.

 

[RayClay]

I didn't say one was better than the other. I said that Tony Dungy is an impressive human being.

Fair enough. I just think that on a football forum, barring insidious or criminal behavior, coaches should be judged on coaching.

Many public figures value their private lives and do many good deeds anonymously.

There's just enough "hey look at me" in the world already for my taste.

 

[RayClay]

Good break down. pfiv.
I choose all of the above.

Of course BB doesn't look to promote himself, his personal beliefs or his charitable actions, while Dungy.........

The beautiful thing, in other words, is BB doesn't give a flying fartsicle.

 

[patsox23]

Why can't I? it seems to me like you are challenging Dungy for being a convicted Christian and standing behind his beliefs. So tell me how you (who are obviously not a Christian) get the authority to call a Christians behavior "Unchristian"???? it seems that you have no right to speak on the matter

Actually, I AM a Christian. In fact, my father is an Episcopal Priest and I have no doubt that he, and more Christians than you might imagine would completely agree with me.

I have the authority to call someone's behavior UNChristian when it IS "UnChristian." If you want to disagree, fine. Tell me all about how Jesus's teaching and example and behavior - EVERY SINGLE THING YOU'VE EVER READ ABOUT HIM - would lead you to think that he's someone who would be AGAINST Gay people and their living lives just like the rest of us do.

Let's hear it.

 

[workhorse]

Actually, there are objective standards that most people can agree upon. Your basis for claiming Dungy is an "impressive human being" would apply to the AVERAGE person in society. Many people do charity work of some kind. Many people are influential to others in their lives. Many public figures are held as "role models". There's absolutely nothing impressive (i.e. unique, rare, difficult, extraordinary) about what Dungy has done. The only opinion I have of Dungy is that he's a regular guy. Thus I was curious to know why this regular guy was being called "impressive". I see now that it's for no reason whatsoever except for the fact that some people in society are prone to exaggeration and hero worship. Quite irrelevant to me but I just wanted to verify that my presumption was correct. Thanks.

Actually I was never the one that made the claim that he was an "impressive human being." Even if you consider his actions being average, in this day and age, many fail to meet that same standard.

Actually, I AM a Christian. In fact, my father is an Episcopal Priest and I have no doubt that he, and more Christians than you might imagine would completely agree with me.

I have the authority to call someone's behavior UNChristian when it IS "UnChristian." If you want to disagree, fine. Tell me all about how Jesus's teaching and example and behavior - EVERY SINGLE THING YOU'VE EVER READ ABOUT HIM - would lead you to think that he's someone who would be AGAINST Gay people and their living lives just like the rest of us do.

Let's hear it.

Authority? That seem like a bit of a holier than thou attitude.