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BB on turning for the ball

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Uncle Rico, Oct 9, 2012.

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  1. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Mods, feel free to merge with any number of McCourty threads, but as a football layman I thought his was interesting via Reiss, considering all the angst over the subject:

    Just glad someone finally asked him about it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  2. ForThoseAboutToRock

    ForThoseAboutToRock Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Interesting points about the goal of keeping cover on the WR.

    Why would this technique not be working properly?

    A - The DB is either peaking for the ball too often (allows WR to uncover) or lacks the athletic skills to maintain proper coverage

    B - The DB is in good coverage, the QB throws it anyways and the DB doesn't succeed in his "play the hands" technique (luck/success example is the AFCC, for one).

    C - "Other" which is probably headlined by poor communication leading to inadequate coverage on certain parts of the field. An example of this would be a CB playing outside technique while expecting a S to cover from the inside - but not getting this help due to miscommunication or a bite on play action.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  3. holyredeemer

    holyredeemer Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Sorry. Just dont buy it. There is truth is what Bill said, but at the same time, that just shows D-Mac has lost his feel for the ball. I mean come on. Want a first down? Just toss it down the field at McCourty. Instant flag.

    I love D-Mac, and really want to see him succeed. He wont until these little things are fixed. What blows my mind is that he is hardly ever really beaten but as soon as that receiver goes up for that ball he loses his edge. So Bill, what did your coaches do to him?

    Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
     
  4. Uncle Rico

    Uncle Rico Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Anyone else think of Sterling Moore-Lee Evans on this quote?:

     
  5. cavtroop

    cavtroop 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    so this tells me the problem isn't the DB not turning to look for the ball, but knowing WHEN to turn and look for the ball. So they're not reading the WR properly or well enough, to turn when the ball is in the air. So I'm betting they're coached to NOT turn for the ball unless the read from the WR is clear that the ball is on the way. Interesting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  6. upstater1

    upstater1 Pro Bowl Player

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    It's a game situation problem. When 4 or 5 seconds have elapsed and you're in the end zone with the receiver squaring up toward the LOS, you gotta turn your head there.
     
  7. BradyManny

    BradyManny Pro Bowl Player

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    The larger issue, which he alludes to, is the officiating and its repercussions on how corners shoud play. Face-guarding isn't illegal anymore, but with the way the rule is written (and Belichick states it plainly), and the legacy of calling face-guarding - it's just not feasible to play cornerback without turning around. You will get called for PI incessantly, even if you make little to no contact. It's stupid. But it is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  8. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Pro Bowl Player

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    The problem with McCourty is he runs with his back to the ball and only turns to react when the receiver starts his jump to catch the ball as it descends from its flight.

    At that point it is almost impossible to not interfere and cause a PI or simply not get up to the height it takes to knock it away,thus the WR hauls it in or gets hit without getting a chance to grab it,causing the PI.

    Good corners keep up with thier man while also having the knack for running at a slight angle that keeps them informed if the play is designed for the man they are covering and the ball is heading thier way......that is what separates all star pros like Revis from struggling CBs like Devin.
     
  9. PrairiePat

    PrairiePat Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    So crossing routes would generally be easier to keep an eye on the ball, since the QB is quite possibly in your field of (peripheral) vision.

    The fly patterns along the sidelines, or the deep post/corner routes are probably the toughest to handle, since you really have to turn 180 degrees to see the ball in flight. If you're even with or trailing the receiver, that's a tall task. The Pats corners seem to play that technique most of the time, so ...
     
  10. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    So much of this. Watch Revis highlights - the guy does it perfectly. He is always in great position and always looks for the ball
     
  11. Batman

    Batman Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    If a DB does not know the ball in in the air his S is not communicating well enough to let him know the ball is in the air a DB can only react to what a WR is doing so if is just running stright then there is little to react to other than a player jumping. In which case he needs to work on jarring the ball loose before a catch can be completed.

    As a Corner you rely on other people to communicate with you when in the trail, we use to change our call every quarter to let each other know the ball was in the air so that other teams sideline could not just shout the same thing.
     
  12. dannydyn

    dannydyn PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    COULD NOT AGREE MORE

    I’ve been saying this for a while now: Want to beat the Patriots? Forget about running the ball, forget about short slant/crossing route passes. GO DEEP – preferably in the direction of Devin Mccourtey. You are almost guaranteed to be awarded a PI call. I’ve never seen another CB playing with so much stubbornness with regards to not turning to the ball. It’s as if he does it on purpose. I don’t get it! I mean, you’re a first round pick, pro corner in the NFL, and yet you don’t understand that by not turning around (at least in the last split of a second as the receiver jumps in the air to catch the ball) you are asking for a flag?

    I just don’t get it.





    With all due respect to BB, and obviously I’m not trying to outsmart him, but come on… the way he presents it, as if it’s a situation of either you look for the ball or you don’t... I’m sorry, but I disagree. You see plenty of great corners in the league do these quick neck snapping look-backs to quickly spot the ball. Just like you can’t anticipate the receiver to uncover the moment you look away, the receiver also can’t anticipate your split-of-a-second quick checks to the back to spot the course of the ball. I see Revis running with the receiver (keeping his eyes on him), and in the process, does these multiple quick ball-checks with these quick neck jerks, while running down with the receiver. You don’t have to run and stare at the ball the whole time. Just do these quick checks. The receiver has no chance to break away in that short split of a second moment. Anyone who thinks this is impossible should pay more attention to some of the better CBs in the league. They’re masters at doing just that.

    After all, how do you expect to go for an interception or break a catch without having a single clue where the ball is. If you don’t look for the ball, you don’t know if you’re following a receiver because he’s the target, or because he’s just a decoy drawing you away from the real target.
     
  13. billdog3484

    billdog3484 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    anyone else notice alfonzo dennard? i thought he was really good when out there. and in relation to this topic, he always seemed to turn his head. it looks like he has good ball skills. hopefully we will see more of him going forward
     
  14. dannydyn

    dannydyn PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    yes... him and Wilson... maybe we should put them at corner :)
     
  15. Big-T

    Big-T Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Dennard is a corner.

    The main problem as pointed out before is the safeties, if they aren't communicating then the corners aren't going to be playing well on a consistent basis.
     
  16. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This thread really needs to be merged with the McCourty haters thread where this is already being discussed.

    And to add to the discussion, it tracks with what AWTE said on the Planet when asked whether this was a coaching issue and if so what were they coaching...

     
  17. Bhelmet

    Bhelmet Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I whole-heartedly disagree with this philosophy. Why? Because the Pats STINK at it and it is killing us while extending opponents' drives. The theory may be valid, but it must be done with players who can execute - ours cannot.
     
  18. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Pro Bowl Player

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    If that's the case, we haven't drafted a single CB since 2003 who knows how to read a WR properly. Which is probably a bigger concern than what we felt was a coaching issue.

    We did bring in Bodden and Springs who on the field were fine, just unfortunately one couldn't stay healthy and the other apparently had an attitude problem.
     
  19. Big-T

    Big-T Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    That is a terrible technique to coach :eek:

    Who's the DB coach? Whoever it is he shouldn't be in a job much longer if he's teaching that junk, it's all well and good keeping eyes on the receiver sometimes but every time you play trail? That's the ideal time to turn and make a play at the ball!

    ...How about Ratgini back as DB coach? :bricks:
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The technique predates the position coach. It's Belichick's call. And the secondary sucked under Mangini in 2005...with the exception of Troy Brown and that was more on him than Eric. And prior to that it's success was based far more on talent and the ability to utilize it prior to the Polian emphasis on contact outside the 5 yard chuck rule.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2012
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