Welcome to PatsFans.com

BB is better at winning; than a losing

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by TheGodInAGreyHoodie, Feb 6, 2008.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    BB has received quite a bit of criticisms for his post-game presser and lack of class in leaving the field from the media. He has also been defended quite rigorously on this board.

    I went to NFL.com and looked at clips of both winning and losing coaches post-game pressers during the post-season and have concluded two things.

    When the Patriots win BB is much more gracious about the losing teams performance, than any other coach. Absolutely no "we showed them" attitude. And always complemented the other teams play.

    When the Patriots lost BB pouted and did not complement the play of the Giants, nor was he willing to at all discuss the game or what went wrong. Other coaches did a superior job of complementing and congratulating the winning team.

    So in fact I would say the media's criticism of BB's post-game reaction is fair.

    However, I don't give a crap. As far as I am concerned BB's job is to coach the team. I judge him on his ability to put together a winning football team not is press conference demeanor. And this year he is 18 for 19, best in the NFL. What he says in the pressers is irrelevant good or bad. Brady's job is to throw passes, Mosses job is to catch them. Not be spokesman. You know, I don't really care about Wes Welkers tendency to say "you know" Like Moss his job is to catch passes, not be a spokesman.

    Likewise, Michael Strahan job is not to be nice to other teams in victory parades. His job is to make sacks and tackles.

    But for those who view the class issue as important. BB is much better at winning than losing. But like when Chris Hanson's poor punting is defended on the grounds he doesn't get much practice. The same can be said of BB being better in victory presser than losing ones: he has had more practice at being a gracefully winner, then being a graceful loser -- I hope it stays that way.
     
  2. Poker

    Poker Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    Messages:
    168
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    All true and good points. This is BB's personality, how he is wired, and part of his fascinating overall package that includes his extreme, pure talent.

    Now, here's the thing I think about: If you're Bob Kraft, BB's boss, what do you think about this? Do you do anything about it? Does he do anything about it? Does he really care?

    Kraft and BB are both incredible smart guys who obviously have a lot of mutual respect for each other. Does Kraft actually try to "coach" Belichick to subtly be more open and gracious next year? I thought super bowl week was interesting--BB went from about a 1 to a 3-4 on the media friendliness scale, and it made a big difference in public perception.

    It's a bottom line, brutal, win/lose business. Kraft must think about this as the CEO of the entire operation. Do I try to tweak/coach my coach on his weaknesess, or do I just accept the whole package because I am afraid if I monkey with the chemistry at all I may somehow mess up the essence of BB and the Pats start losing? That was one of the problems in Cleveland with Art Modell's handling of BB.

    Kraft however, is also very well respected. I wonder what would really happen if he went to BB and said "Bill, just like you coach the players to get better every year, I want you to get better going into 2008. You still need to win, and you don't have to give the media anything if you don't want to, but can you do these specific things to improve your performance (show more humorous side, more graciousness, etc.) An analogy he could give is Tom Brady's handling of the media. Brady is wired to be just as kick-ass and cutthroat as BB, fight to the death to win, work like a dog. Yet Brady is better with the media than BB, funnier, more gracious, yet he doesn't give away any trade secrets. Brady is gifted and well-schooled in this art, and BB just does not have the innate talent to pull that off, but could Kraft demand/coach/plead for BB to "upgrade" a little this aspect of his game without diminishing all the other things that make him so great. Apparently Coughlin was able to make some of these adjustments...didn't hurt him.

    If Kraft could pull that off, or BB made the adjustments independently next year, to me (and imagine to the media) that would be one of the more fascinating story lines of 2008 to watch. Imagine a headline "More loveable Belichick keeps on winning..."
     
  3. mac

    mac On the Game Day Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2004
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Belichick needs to surround himself with coordinators that have better people skills. I think the Pats still miss Crennel (and maybe even Weis). For sure, the defense hasn't been the same since Romeo left. Cold hard facts from a emotionally controlled person like BB may not rally the troops when true pressure is on.
     
  4. bolts_fan

    bolts_fan Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    BB is kind of like the absented minded professor... brilliant scientific mind, but forgets the most mundane things like turning off the oven. BB is a brilliant football mind, but he's a terrible, sore loser. That's just the way he is.

    Kraft on the other hand, is almost 100% not. People at his level, the super successful (think Gates, Buffett, etc.) are both talented and have excellent people skills. You can't get there on talent alone because at that high of a level in the business world, the connections you have are the most important thing. You've heard the saying, it's not what you know but who you know. It applies here more than you'd think. And you have to know how to be gracious to get those connections.

    For BB, it's not as important since the only people he has to please is Kraft. As long as Kraft accepts the ungracious behaviors (when BB loses) then it's all good. However, I would have to think that Kraft doesn't like it and has tried to get his coach to change. But you can only do so much and at the end you have to weigh bad against the good. In this case, BB's raw talent overcomes his personality, or lack thereof.

    In case you're wondering, Kraft cares because it's all about the money. I'm sure that the Patriots have lost some fans and potential fans because the head coach is just so hard to like. You don't have to be soft and cuddly and all that cr@p. Look at Parcells' press conference or Jim Mora Senior or Dennis Green. But they have personality and what people perceive as good sportsmanship. BB doesn't have much of a personality at all when he loses... he'll just turtle up and talks to no one unless he absolutely has to. He'll congratulate the other coach and all, but then just takes off. That alienates quite a few people I would think.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  5. MTaylorJ1

    MTaylorJ1 On the Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Boy do I hope so, these are the type of fans that are probably really quiet during games and tell the people in front of them to sit on big 3rd down plays.
     
  6. DaveW

    DaveW On the Roster

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2005
    Messages:
    87
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    People say, his job is to coach, not be a spokesman.

    I say it's both. The coach is the face of the team. It's part of the job- like it or not.
    Nobody expects happy and joking and smiling- especially after a loss- but BB takes it to extreme levels and it's embarassing as a fan of this franchise.

    The reaction the week after spygate, with Belichick and Kraft was like night and day. Kraft said all the right things and seemed genuinely apologetic to the fans, while Belichick tried to pretend it didn't happen and said as little as humanly possible.

    How does he get away with shoving cameramen and refs with no repercussions? Eventually someone's gonna shove back.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2008
  7. TheGodInAGreyHoodie

    TheGodInAGreyHoodie Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2007
    Messages:
    6,631
    Likes Received:
    25
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0

    If I am Kraft. I say nothing. I have not seen anything to remotely suggest BB's personality has in anyway hurt the team competitively or financially. If BB had given a really nice presser after the game do you think a single Giants fan would have bought a Patriots hat in appreciation?

    BB's lack of personality is great for Kraft's business--ugly gray hoodies are a best seller at $75 bucks a piece. How many of the red hoodies at $50 do you think he is going to sell this year? I guessing not many.

    As long as Patriot fans love him (and we do) it doesn't hurt Kraft in the least bit. If folks cite BB's walking off the field early as a reason not to renew season tickets next year -- well then it is time to have a talk.
     
  8. MTaylorJ1

    MTaylorJ1 On the Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I beg people cite that as a reason. It will move my waiting list spot up hopefully.
     
  9. bolts_fan

    bolts_fan Practice Squad Player

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Maybe, but maybe not. People have their own pet peeves. You can't dismiss theirs if you're going to hold onto yours.

    From an organizational stand point though, almost every fan is important and they'll do what they can to maximize their fan base. The fans an organization doesn't want are those that would cause them to lose more fans. See the Chargers recent move to revoke 300 fans from holding season tickets for bad behavior and drunkenness. Kudos to the Chargers. That's a big impact finally... we're talking a couple of hundred thousand dollars here. But from the Chargers stand point, every one of those fans cost them 10 other fans, or whatever the number is, and they felt they had to do something.

    The ones you mentioned are far and few in between though and I bet that BB's behavior turns off a lot more normal folks than you think.
     
  10. MTaylorJ1

    MTaylorJ1 On the Roster

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    82
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Normal Patriots fans? I can't think of one person I know who is turned off by BB's behavior. In terms of the multi-billion dollar league that's the NFL, I'd actually argue that more would be Patriots fans are that way BECAUSE of his behavior, not the other way around.
     
  11. Robdude

    Robdude Third String But Playing on Special Teams

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2006
    Messages:
    680
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    This is silly.

    First of all BB did congratulate Coughlin on the win. He seemed to be very sincere about it and I did not see "crying" when he went out to shake hands. So they were confused and he did it with one second on the clock. WHAT WAS HE SUPPOSED TO DO GO SHAKE HANDS A SECOND TIME??? BB did nothing wrong here and I am sure no one on the Giants team was waiting to shake hands with him, they were busy celebrating (deservedly so). He did not storm off the field in protest or disgust. They lost the game and he left. This is pretty standard.

    Secondly, not disclosing information to reporters does not mean he is socially inept. The team has established policy on what they will and will not discuss and he sticks to that policy. He obviously he has the ability to communicate with his players. I see BB coaching on the side lines all season long. He is cool under pressure, to the point, and clear. He can commincate what needs to be communcated.

    Look at lot of people wanted to see the Pats lose. Now they can gloat, which is fine. But, we do not have to buy into anything. BB wanted to win and he did not and he was upset. But, he did not do anything wrong after the lose. He went into the locker room like every other losing team does
     
  12. indypatsfan

    indypatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2008
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I don't see why it matters if BB is cordial and happy all the time. What was he hired to do...win games and that is what he does. Look at one of the greatest college football coaches of all time, Joe Paterno. I am a die hard Lions fan and to some degree he acts the same way. No one complains about him and the way he acts. The coaches job is to win not to play pattycake with the media. If he was a losing coach or the coach of any other team besides the Pats do you think it really would be an issue?
     
  13. 3.2 Blues

    3.2 Blues Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2007
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    I know it's another sport but I don't remember Scotty Bowman being all that personable while kicking ass w/ the Red Wings and it didn't effect their fan base. You don't change one thing about Belichick. That's the way you screw up your team before it's time. You guys lost one game this year and it just happened to be the biggest one. Kraft would be crazy to tinker with the chemistry now...
     
  14. pheenix11

    pheenix11 In the Starting Line-Up

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    2,321
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0

    Speaking of hoodies, do you think some asswipe in our marketing dept (probably the same one who trademarked 19-0) told BB to wear that friggin red hoodie so they could sell some?

    That POS marketing dept cursed us.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

unset ($sidebar_block_show); ?>