BB ascending to the top of the ladder among all time coaching greats..

[RobertWeathers]

I think if you discount the Cleveland "announced move" year, bb is above 500. And one of those no playoff years was the first team in nfl history to win 11 games and NOT go to the playoffs. So I find your stat a bit disingenuous

No one could have won in that situation. Its a miracle that they won 5 games.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

My first NFL Favorite team were the Browns in the 50's, and Paul Brown was one of my all time favorites until BB came along..BB modeled a lot of what he does after Brown.

Along with Landry, they are the great system coaches. Brown started staffing assistant coaches and reviewing games on film, taxi squads, sending in plays from the sideline. Landry would scrutinize game film for opponent's tendencies even to yardage and down situations - Belichick would take it even farther. Landry started strength and speed programs. TL and BB dealt with talent a lot alike. Finding players from sources nobody had thought of before, including different sports. With TL, if a player was on the team three years and did not improve, he replaced them with younger players....Parcells mentioned that and BB practices it. Both TL and BB would run plays to confuse opponents what was coming next - deception. But they also ran plays based on the percentages. And they had their teams rehearse various situations like the two-minute drill until it was routine....BB drilled down into more situations. I'd say BB was more flexible on adapting to opponents.

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

I think if you discount the Cleveland "announced move" year, bb is above 500. And one of those no playoff years was the first team in nfl history to win 11 games and NOT go to the playoffs. So I find your stat a bit disingenuous

....BB, like Brown was screwed, then fired by Modell.

 

[fnordcircle]

And yet that idiot can't even run a team properly or draft right.

 

[TommyD4207]

People forget that BB has coached 7 whole seasons without Brady. He has a sub .500 record and a single playoff appearance to show for it.

This argument's kind of lame, IMO.

How many seasons did Don Shula coach without a Hall of Fame QB (Unitas, Griese, Marino)?

 

[RecoveringCowboy]

People forget that BB has coached 7 whole seasons without Brady. He has a sub .500 record and a single playoff appearance to show for it.

The last time, they were 12-4 with Matt Cassell at QB and only the second 12-4 team to sit out the playoffs.

So how do you think the HoF panel will respond to that?

 

[wrangler]

11-5 ?

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

The last time, they were 12-4 with Matt Cassell at QB and only the second 12-4 team to sit out the playoffs.

It was 11-5....still pretty impressive

 

[Wheelman]

I just wanted to add that people do learn. Everytime I hear someone mention BB's record in Cleveland I roll my eyes.

 

[Deflatemyballs]

I love Brady as much as the next guy, I think he is the goat qb. That being said in 2001 Brady was not Brady. He was a tough, poised game manager who could make the big play when you needed it. But that first super bowl had to have been the greatest coaching job of all time. that team had no business making the playoffs, never mind beating at the time the best offense of all time. You can talk about longevity, coaching up hall of farmers, innovating the game, but as far as Xs and Os and coaching up your players to win a championship I really don't think you can point to a better coaching performance for a season.

 

[Off The Grid]

No one could have won in that situation. Its a miracle that they won 5 games.

Concur. They were actually 4-4 at the halfway mark, lost on November 5th, and the official Announcement was on the 6th, but if you suppose, as I do, that word'd already seeped out the week before ~ or at least the day before ~ then the Browns went 1-7 the rest of the way after that despicable Announcement.

 

[1960Pats]

Do not disagree, but the info that was presented was quantifiable.. at the end of the day for most viewers, the numbers are what they rely on.. subjective stuff can be argued.

My first NFL Favorite team were the Browns in the 50's, and Paul Brown was one of my all time favorites until BB came along..BB modeled a lot of what he does after Brown.

Damn it Darryl. It's like we each traveled the same path to get here. I was also a Browns fan until the Pats came along. Somewhere along that path though, you took a hard left politically, while I veered off to the right.

It's very difficult to rank some of the HCs due to their impact on the game and their innovations. If we could add those in somehow Belichick, Brown, Landry and Walsh would move up a bit.

I actually put together a list of the top HCs of all time. I ranked each HC for regular season winning % and playoff winning % and then added them up.

Rank/Name/Years/Reg%/Playoff%/Total
1 Vince Lombardi 10 2 1 3
2 George Halas 40 3 7 10
3 Bill Belichick 20 6 5 11
4 George Seifert 11 8 7 15
T5 Greasy Neale 10 15 2 17
T5 Bill Walsh 10 13 4 17
T5 Joe Gibbs 16 11 6 17
T5 John Madden 10 1 16 17
9 Buddy Parker 15 18 2 20
10 Curly Lambeau 33 9 12 21
11 Bill Cowher 15 10 14 24
T12 Paul Brown 25 5 22 27
T12 Don Shula 33 4 23 27
14 Chuck Noll 23 22 7 29
15 Hank Stram 17 19 11 30
T16 Tom Landry 29 14 17 31
T16 Tony Dungy 13 7 24 31
18 Bill Parcells 19 21 13 34
19 Tom Coughlin 19 25 10 35
20 Mike Holmgren 17 16 20 36
21 Mike Shanahan 20 23 14 37
22 Bud Grant 18 11 27 38
T23 Jon Gruden 11 24 17 41
T23 John Fox 13 20 21 41
T23 Andy Reid 16 17 24 41
26 **** Vermeil 15 27 19 46
27 Lovie Smith 10 29 24 53
28 Jeff Fisher 20 27 27 54
29 Marvin Lewis 12 26 29 55

 

[1960Pats]

SideNote Question, just in case there are any Quantitative Analysts around here:

In 1965, for instance, there were 14 Teams in the NFL, and and 2014 there were 32.

That might suggest, employing rudimentary Mathematics, that winning the Championship in 2014 was literally more than twice as hard ~ leaving all other Factors such as the debilitating effects of The Infernal Salary Cap aside ~ as it was in 1965, and that we should therefore be awarded Double Word Score!!

I don't think that that's how it would go, though.

The other side of the Argument might posit that the number of Competitors is immaterial, or close to it.

Of course it's all ultimately subjective...But is there such a thing as a Formula that could be applied?

That is similar to the argument about the Celts having it easier in the 60's because there were less teams, which brings the counter argument that the talent was less diluted.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I love Brady as much as the next guy, I think he is the goat qb. That being said in 2001 Brady was not Brady. He was a tough, poised game manager who could make the big play when you needed it. But that first super bowl had to have been the greatest coaching job of all time. that team had no business making the playoffs, never mind beating at the time the best offense of all time. You can talk about longevity, coaching up hall of farmers, innovating the game, but as far as Xs and Os and coaching up your players to win a championship I really don't think you can point to a better coaching performance for a season.

As time goes on it is obvious that the defense was loaded with talent.

The offense? Much different story.

It was Brady's 1st year as a starter. Other than Troy Brown and Patton he had really no one to throw to. Smith was solid but not spectacular.

That was a pitching and defense team. Ball control. Clamp down on the red zone and 3rd down. That was always the game plan.

With that said, when they needed Brady to carry the team...he did. That's a characteristic you don't find in game managers or caretaker QBs and an essential part of that team's ability to win.

So, I guess I'm saying in 2001 Brady was not a pure game manager because of his lack of experience but was bridled by the lack of wepons on offense and with a great defense and running game, there was no need to throw it 40 times a game.

 

[patfanken]

As time goes on it is obvious that the defense was loaded with talent.

The offense? Much different story.

It was Brady's 1st year as a starter. Other than Troy Brown and Patton he had really no one to throw to. Smith was solid but not spectacular.

That was a pitching and defense team. Ball control. Clamp down on the red zone and 3rd down. That was always the game plan.

With that said, when they needed Brady to carry the team...he did. That's a characteristic you don't find in game managers or caretaker QBs and an essential part of that team's ability to win.

So, I guess I'm saying in 2001 Brady was not a pure game manager because of his lack of experience but was bridled by the lack of wepons on offense and with a great defense and running game, there was no need to throw it 40 times a game.

It should be noted that in both 2001 and 2003 the Pats defense rated in the mid 20's in total D. The Pat's D's of that era were solid and very tough in the red zone. However as time goes one it seems to me that those defenses are betting better and better with every year that passes.... but only in our memories

 

[DarrylS]

As time goes on it is obvious that the defense was loaded with talent.

The offense? Much different story.

It was Brady's 1st year as a starter. Other than Troy Brown and Patton he had really no one to throw to. Smith was solid but not spectacular.

That was a pitching and defense team. Ball control. Clamp down on the red zone and 3rd down. That was always the game plan.

With that said, when they needed Brady to carry the team...he did. That's a characteristic you don't find in game managers or caretaker QBs and an essential part of that team's ability to win.

So, I guess I'm saying in 2001 Brady was not a pure game manager because of his lack of experience but was bridled by the lack of wepons on offense and with a great defense and running game, there was no need to throw it 40 times a game.

That is the brilliance of BB; take what you have, coach them up and maximize the team's potential.. often imitated, but seldom(if ever) duplicated. All the while plan and coach for every contingency and simultaneously plan for next year as well.

It sounds so simple, but it is very complicated..

 

[RobertWeathers]

It should be noted that in both 2001 and 2003 the Pats defense rated in the mid 20's in total D. The Pat's D's of that era were solid and very tough in the red zone. However as time goes one it seems to me that those defenses are betting better and better with every year that passes.... but only in our memories

Over the last 12 games the 01 team allowed 14ppg. In 03 they were #1 in scoring defense and dominant.

 

[1960Pats]

This argument's kind of lame, IMO.

How many seasons did Don Shula coach without a Hall of Fame QB (Unitas, Griese, Marino)?

Here's the actual breakdown of Shula's career QBs;

Scott Mitchell - 1 (filled in for Marino)
Earl Morrall - 2 (filled in for both Unitas and Griese once)
David Woodley - 3
Johnny Unitas - 6
Bob Griese - 9
Dan Marino -12
Total - 33 years

After winning one NFL title with Baltimore, he then won back to back SB's with Miami right after they were fined a 1st round pick and cash for cheating to get Shula to Miami (oh the irony). His team won two more AFC titles but never won anything else in his last 22 years, in spite of having Griese and Marino for most of those years.

 

[patfanken]

Over the last 12 games the 01 team allowed 14ppg. In 03 they were #2 in scoring defense and dominant.

Yet still managed to be ranked in the 20's in total defense.

You know I only point that out to aggravate those who think that every time a team ge..ts a first down against us, or marches down the field it is NOT the end of the world. Both those teams gave up a ton of yards in those years, and weren't "dominant" in the traditional sense. Don't forget that "dominant" 2003 defense gave up 29 points to freakin' Jake Delhomme

 

[RobertWeathers]

Yet still managed to be ranked in the 20's in total defense.

You know I only point that out to aggravate those who think that every time a team ge..ts a first down against us, or marches down the field it is NOT the end of the world. Both those teams gave up a ton of yards in those years, and weren't "dominant" in the traditional sense. Don't forget that "dominant" 2003 defense gave up 29 points to freakin' Jake Delhomme

Point taken.

Yards allowed mean nothing to me.

It's all about 3rd down and red zone.

Remember Rodney and Ty Poole got hurt in the 2nd 1/2 vs CAR.