Barwin runs a 4.47 at pro day

[ctpatsfan77]

Hmmm... not sure if he has the required tattoos.

Tattoos are a plus, but snow angel potential is mandatory.

 

[mayoclinic]

It's a weird phenomenon -- blowing away the combine now labels you a "workout warrior" and likely bust in some quarters, all laid at the feet of a single bad draft pick from 14 years ago. It's a kind of backwards world, where the better your performance, the worse a prospect it makes you.

The label "workout warrior" is supposed to apply to the guy who's just a physical specimen and not a football player; the guy who wows them in spandex shorts but makes little impact on game day. It is NOT supposed to denigrate a player just for being a phenomenal athlete. In the case of Conner Barwin, the guy was already this board's binky before the combine based on his actual football attributes. Check it out, you'll find several HUNDRED Barwin posts here from before his workouts.

Well said.

I also think that there are unreasonable expectations about a rookie LB starting. Some other LB candidates may be more experienced than Barwin, but I think the odds are heavily against a rookie coming in a becoming a starter the way Mayo did.

Don't forget, the Pats defense is very complex and confusing. Even an experienced veteran like Adalius Thomas admitted that it was a much bigger adjustment than he expected, and it took him a year or so to become really comfortable. Imagine someone like Maualuga coming in and trying to master the Pats' complex playbook and defensive schemes, with BB emphasizing each man covering their specific role and territory as opposed to free-lancing. Doesn't sound very likely to me that it would work out. The complexity of the Pats' playbook has sunk highly talented athletes before (Chad Jackson, anyone?).

Someone like Clint Sintim may have an edge in terms of 3-4 experience, but I think it would still be a huge learning curve adjusting to BB's playbook and schemes, and his more limited physical ability might not help. The Pats' system ideally demands someone with both extraordinary mental and physical ability, which is partly why Monty Beisel couldn't make it.

I think a more realistic expectation for the 23rd pick would be a Meriweather-like rookie season, showing some flashes of ability and getting increased playing time towards the end, rather than being a 16-game starter like Mayo. That's just not realistic, whether the pick is Barwin, Maualuga, Beatty, or anyone else.

And frankly, if anyone can come in and make a Mayo-like impact as a rookie, I think it's Barwin, not any of the others. Mayo was something of a "perfect" storm - a very mature player with tremendous physical and mental ability at a position of extreme need, a fast learner, very studious and hard working. His emotional maturity and intense study habits as much as his physical ability contributed to him being a starter from the get-go.

Lets look at some of those attributes regarding Barwin:

- Mature - from what I can see, Barwin is very emotionally mature. He is confident but not arrogant, and he comes across as very mature in his interviews.
- Highly driven - Barwin has taken on every challenge so far and succeeded, whether at basketball, position changes, combine drills, etc. He is clearly very motivated to push himself and to succeed, and he thrives on new challenges.
- Physical ability - no question here, Barwin has more raw ability than probably any other 3-4 OLB prospect. His TE/basketball background will give him a big edge in playing in space.
- Fast learner - Barwin led the conference in sacks in his first year at a new position. He has shown repeatedly the ability to learn new positional skills at an amazing rate. He clearly embraces challenges and works hard to learn the skills needed to address them successfully.

Sounds a bit like Mayo in terms of his intangibles, doesn't he?

 

[MetalBleachers]

I think a more realistic expectation for the 23rd pick would be a Meriweather-like rookie season, showing some flashes of ability and getting increased playing time towards the end, rather than being a 16-game starter like Mayo. That's just not realistic, whether the pick is Barwin, Maualuga, Beatty, or anyone else.

And frankly, if anyone can come in and make a Mayo-like impact as a rookie, I think it's Barwin, not any of the others. Mayo was something of a "perfect" storm - a very mature player with tremendous physical and mental ability at a position of extreme need, a fast learner, very studious and hard working. His emotional maturity and intense study habits as much as his physical ability contributed to him being a starter from the get-go.

Lets look at some of those attributes regarding Barwin:

- Mature - from what I can see, Barwin is very emotionally mature. He is confident but not arrogant, and he comes across as very mature in his interviews.
- Highly driven - Barwin has taken on every challenge so far and succeeded, whether at basketball, position changes, combine drills, etc. He is clearly very motivated to push himself and to succeed, and he thrives on new challenges.
- Physical ability - no question here, Barwin has more raw ability than probably any other 3-4 OLB prospect. His TE/basketball background will give him a big edge in playing in space.
- Fast learner - Barwin led the conference in sacks in his first year at a new position. He has shown repeatedly the ability to learn new positional skills at an amazing rate. He clearly embraces challenges and works hard to learn the skills needed to address them successfully.

Sounds a bit like Mayo in terms of his intangibles, doesn't he?

These are reasons why the Pats should consider Taylor over Peppers, IMHO. Taylor can come in for 2 years, make an impact, and set the table for a rookie acquired this year. All for less money. Barwin can come in, adapt and learn as he has throughout his college career in two sport and three positions (power forward, TE, DE), and produce on a regular basis by his third year.

I see him as the best value pick at 23 right now, barring a big drop by another potential draftee.

 

[Revman]

While Barwin is imporving stock,making a name for his versatility-let's not forget that he is still a very risky early round pick. He has very limited experience at OLB & TE. For his sake I hope that he doesn't get overdrafted. Right now he could become a gem from a value stand point. For him to be a round one raises the stakes a considerably, Less time and patients from front offices. Round 2-he buys time to develop within a system and becomes a role player which is what he is. I like him - just not enough to use #23 on him.

 

[mayoclinic]

While Barwin is imporving stock,making a name for his versatility-let's not forget that he is still a very risky early round pick. He has very limited experience at OLB & TE. For his sake I hope that he doesn't get overdrafted. Right now he could become a gem from a value stand point. For him to be a round one raises the stakes a considerably, Less time and patients from front offices. Round 2-he buys time to develop within a system and becomes a role player which is what he is. I like him - just not enough to use #23 on him.

That's all fine and good, but every year prospects move up in the draft based on outstanding combine and pro days. Ronnie Brown was considered a late 1st round pick in 2005 and was a popular choice for the Pats at #32 until he showed amazing size/speed end jumped up all the way to #2. Patrick Willis was considered a late 1st round pick at the end of his senior year, and then he blew people away at the Senior Bowl/combine/pro day and jumped to #11. DeMarcus Ware was considered only a "possible" first round pick until the combine in 2005. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie was considered a 2nd round pick prior to the Senior Bowl last year, and then his combine and pro day performances vaulted him firmly into the mid-1st round.

Barwin's stock is rising, like it or not. He won't last to #47. He probably won't last to #34. He may turn out to be worth it no matter how high he goes, like Willis or Ware, or he may end up to be more of a Ronnie Brown type who is solid but doesn't live up to his statistics. But my guess is that whoever takes him will have to roll the dice sooner rather than later.

 

[alvinnf]

That's all fine and good, but every year prospects move up in the draft based on outstanding combine and pro days. Ronnie Brown was considered a late 1st round pick in 2005 and was a popular choice for the Pats at #32 until he showed amazing size/speed end jumped up all the way to #2. Patrick Willis was considered a late 1st round pick at the end of his senior year, and then he blew people away at the Senior Bowl/combine/pro day and jumped to #11. DeMarcus Ware was considered only a "possible" first round pick until the combine in 2005. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie was considered a 2nd round pick prior to the Senior Bowl last year, and then his combine and pro day performances vaulted him firmly into the mid-1st round.

Barwin's stock is rising, like it or not. He won't last to #47. He probably won't last to #34. He may turn out to be worth it no matter how high he goes, like Willis or Ware, or he may end up to be more of a Ronnie Brown type who is solid but doesn't live up to his statistics. But my guess is that whoever takes him will have to roll the dice sooner rather than later.

There is a big difference between moving up from the bottom of the first round, to the the top. This player is moving up from the third to the first. That's a very big leap.

 

[MetalBleachers]

That's all fine and good, but every year prospects move up in the draft based on outstanding combine and pro days. Ronnie Brown was considered a late 1st round pick in 2005 and was a popular choice for the Pats at #32 until he showed amazing size/speed end jumped up all the way to #2. Patrick Willis was considered a late 1st round pick at the end of his senior year, and then he blew people away at the Senior Bowl/combine/pro day and jumped to #11. DeMarcus Ware was considered only a "possible" first round pick until the combine in 2005. Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie was considered a 2nd round pick prior to the Senior Bowl last year, and then his combine and pro day performances vaulted him firmly into the mid-1st round.

Barwin's stock is rising, like it or not. He won't last to #47. He probably won't last to #34. He may turn out to be worth it no matter how high he goes, like Willis or Ware, or he may end up to be more of a Ronnie Brown type who is solid but doesn't live up to his statistics. But my guess is that whoever takes him will have to roll the dice sooner rather than later.

Every pick is a risk. I wasn't psyched about Mayo, which shows how much I know, but with Barwin there will be high expectations due to his outstanding combine and pro day numbers.
Will he start right away? That's doubtful. Will he be a consistent contributor this year (at the very least on ST) and grow into a starting role soon? Yup.

Will he be worth a no. 1 pick by the third year of his contract? As my magic 8 ball used to say, "Signs point to yes."

 

[tanked_as_usual]

barwin has the combo of brains, heart, and ability that I believe reduces his risk

for what the pats need, I believe that barwin is less risky than matthews

and maualuga? a guy who scored a 12 on the winderlic may gave difficulty with the complexity of the scheme as an ILB

 

[mayoclinic]

There is a big difference between moving up from the bottom of the first round, to the the top. This player is moving up from the third to the first. That's a very big leap.

First, Barwin was always a 2nd/3rd round guy at worst, with those who had watched him predicting he would be a solid 2nd round talent.

Second, lots of players move from 3rd round picks to 1st and vice-versa. They leap or fall based on stellar workouts or injury/character/consistency concerns, often right up to the draft itself. Logan Mankins was considered a 3rd round pick by most draftniks, and he did just fine. Lofa Tatupa was considered a 4th round pick by most draftniks, and he has more than justified Seattle taking him in the mid-2nd. Every year there are prospects that slip 2 rounds and prospects who jump up.

Consider 2008:

- #10, Jerod Mayo, ILB. Considered a 2nd round guy prior to the combine, moved steadily up draft boards to become a top 10 pick and DROY.
- #15, Brandon Albert, OG. Considered a 2nd/3rd round guy at the end of his senior year, jumped up boards and was considered a possible top 10 pick.
- #16, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, CB. Considered a 3rd round pick at one point, moved steadily up draft boards with jumps at the Senior Bowl, combine and Pro Day.
- #18, Joe Flacco, QB. Not a first round pick on many draft boards, started his entire rookie year and went to the playoffs.
-#31, Kenny Phillips, S. Considered a "lock" top 10 pick at one point, almost fell out of the 1st round.
- #72, Chris Ellis, DE/OLB. Considered a fringe 1st/2nd round pick, fell to the 3rd round.
- #74, Dan Connor, OLB. Considered by many a possible 1st round pick (much like James Laurinaitis), fell to the 3rd round.
- #75, Reggie Smith, CB/S. Considered 2008's version of Reggie Nelson and a popular 1st round pick until he ran poorly at the combine.
- #92, Cliff Avril, DE/OLB. Considered the next Purdue hybrid conversion and a possible 1st round pick.

It was at least as common last year to see mocks with Ellis, Connor, Smith and Avril going in the 1st round as it was mocks with Mayo, DRC, Flacco and Alberts, at least up until shortly before the draft.

And that's just last year. In 2007 Brandon Siler was considered a possible first round pick by many right up to the draft, and he went UDFA.

 

[captain stone]

1) - #92, Cliff Avril, DE/OLB. Considered the next Purdue hybrid conversion and a possible 1st round pick.

2) In 2007 Brandon Siler was considered a possible first round pick by many right up to the draft, and he went UDFA.

1) The FO should've taken Avril instead of Chicken Legs Crable.

2) Not quite UDFA; he was taken in the 7th round by SD, after our Geniuses chose Oscar Effin Lua.

 

[mayoclinic]

1) The FO should've taken Avril instead of Chicken Legs Crable.

2) Not quite UDFA; he was taken in the 7th round by SD, after our Geniuses chose Oscar Effin Lua.

Thanks for the correction. I forgot that Siler went in the 7th.

Avril was a popular Pats pick last year, with many mocks having us trading up for him in the 2nd round. We obviously passed on him at 63, 69 and 78, so Belichick clearly saw something he didn't like, or preferred Crable (who he publicly stated would have been his pick at 69).

I wouldn't jump to judge Crable. He looked fine in preseason. I think he needed to bulk up and get stronger last year. We weren't drafting him based on his expected rookie productivity. I'd give him at least another year before judging him. After all, Mike Vrabel was a "bust" in Pittsburgh.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Why is so much sotock placed on a 40 time for a pass rusher? What does it matter how fast he is in a straight line if you cant get past the tackles/guards .. surely the best measures of an OLB are how well he can set the edge, how is he at shedding blockers, how are his smarts

Granted im sure speed helps but im not sure any FO worth their salt looks at these things in isolation

If speed were all it took, then Ellis Hobbs would be at OLB

Im not convinced Barwin is as good as many seem to have convinced yourself that he is - esp compared to Maybin and/or Matthews

You talk about setting the edge and shedding blockers, suggesting Barwin is lacking in this regard, then you suggest Maybin and Matthews? These two are known for running around blockers! Of the three, the one you choose to question is the one described as "Physical at the point of attack."

 

[bucky]

It's a weird phenomenon -- blowing away the combine now labels you a "workout warrior" and likely bust in some quarters, all laid at the feet of a single bad draft pick from 14 years ago. It's a kind of backwards world, where the better your performance, the worse a prospect it makes you.

The label "workout warrior" is supposed to apply to the guy who's just a physical specimen and not a football player; the guy who wows them in spandex shorts but makes little impact on game day. It is NOT supposed to denigrate a player just for being a phenomenal athlete. In the case of Conner Barwin, the guy was already this board's binky before the combine based on his actual football attributes. Check it out, you'll find several HUNDRED Barwin posts here from before his workouts.

Since I brought up Mamula as a comparison, let me explain what I'm talking about.

Mamula was a pretty good college player - I think he had about 13 sacks as a senior. But he was always seen as an undersized DE and that's basically what he ended up being his entire NFL career. What Mamula represents though, is guys who get overdrafted based on measurables that don't translate to their position and then fail to live up to the high expectations. Amazingly, it happens every single year. Football players are evaluated based on hundreds of plays over their careers. And then, after they've played their last snap, they rise and fall on the draft boards because of a single 40 time. And the reason why I put the word "amazingly" in front of that sentence, is because most of the time their ranking before the combine is actually more reflective of their NFL careers. Of course that's a debatable statement, but I'm sticking with it until somebody proves me wrong.

Now for the Barwin/Mamula comparison - same position, same size, similar productivity against competition that wasn't alway top tier, same crazy hype over measurables that don't translate to his position (OK, not quite as much hype over Barwin just yet, except on this board). Running a 4.4 40 would be better for him if he stayed as a TE. As an OLB, it's not going to help him set the edge against the run or beat a quality NFL tackle on a pass rush. And it's not going to help him that much cover a back coming out of the backfield running anything but a fly pattern.

There's no question that Barwin is an excellent athlete. If you think about it logically - the guy only played 1 year on the defensive side of the ball. He played in a conference where he was not facing top tier competition on a weekly basis. He was simply able to cause disruption and accumulate stats due to his athletic superiority.

How many times, during a real game, do you think Barwin has dropped into coverage or played out of a 2-point stance? I would be willing to bet that you can probably count on 2 hands all the plays for his entire career that exist on film when he has done either of those 2 things. So how do you make an evaluation on drafting a guy like that in the first round to play OLB? There's practically no evidence that suggests he can break down and tackle in space. You can't even pretend to make a judgment as to his instincts in coverage, or as a LB in general. That represents a risk that's just way too big to take in the 1st round.

I agree with the people who say that we shouldn't expect rookies to become starters. The risk with Barwin isn't that he won't start from day 1. It's that he'll never become a full time player. Just think about that - the guy has to learn all the techniques of an OLB starting from square 1. Plus he has to adjust to the speed of the NFL. And he's going to have to do all this while he doesn't play in any games and fans on boards like this are going to be calling him a major bust.

 

[bucky]

You talk about setting the edge and shedding blockers, suggesting Barwin is lacking in this regard, then you suggest Maybin and Matthews? These two are known for running around blockers! Of the three, the one you choose to question is the one described as "Physical at the point of attack."

Well with Mathews, you can at least evaluate him as a LB - making tackles in space, playing coverage, etc. So that evaluation mitigates some risk

With Maybin, I agree the evaluation is also difficult as he doesn't have much more game experience than Barwin. Though he's played against higher competition and has better stats. And since he's played exclusively on the defensive side of the ball, you'd at least hope that his pass rushing techniques are better. But it's still a very tough projection to make.

 

[rookBoston]

But not rook, he's still expecting Barwin to be there at #34.

You guys are whipping yourselves into a frenzy over an intruiging athlete who's thin on history. The stopwatch is not the deciding factor in the making of a football player.

Remember how this board was talking about how important it was for the Pats to trade up for Vernon Gholston?

Remember how Matt Jones came rocketing up draftboards based on sheer talent and versatility, and teams projected him to QB, WR and maybe S too, he was just so good?

And there wasn't a single drill that Chad Jackson didn't nail at the Combine. Everyone, myself included, was prepared to overlook his lack of experience cause his hands, and height, and speed were undeniable.

I like Barwin, and the tape of him shows him making left tackles look silly. He looks fast, but a lot of times he looks out of position and a bit spastic. If you think he's a top-20 pick you're suggesting that he'll be drafted ahead of Laurinaitis, Sintim and Matthews. Really? I'm not entirely sold on Matthews, but I would certainly draft Laurinaitis or Sintim before taking a shot on Barwin.

 

[spacecrime]

At #23 territory, relatively few Pats rookies have come in and been major contributors out of the gate. Mankins comes closest (and he was an OT conversion), but OG does not have as much complexity as playing 3-4 OLB. Meriweather came on slowly his rookie year and was even labeled a "bust" by some, though he showed flashes of potential. Even Wilfork took some time to adjust and didn't make an overwhelming impact.

Wilfork did fine early on. His biggest problem was changing his reactions from 1 gap to 2 gap.

I don't see what difference it makes if a rookie takes a year to be a major contributor. Yes, there are fans who call a player a bust after his rookie year, but you really don't want to use them as rationale to support your argument.

 

[jeffbiologist]

You guys are whipping yourselves into a frenzy over an intruiging athlete who's thin on history. The stopwatch is not the deciding factor in the making of a football player.

Remember how this board was talking about how important it was for the Pats to trade up for Vernon Gholston?

Remember how Matt Jones came rocketing up draftboards based on sheer talent and versatility, and teams projected him to QB, WR and maybe S too, he was just so good?

And there wasn't a single drill that Chad Jackson didn't nail at the Combine. Everyone, myself included, was prepared to overlook his lack of experience cause his hands, and height, and speed were undeniable.

I like Barwin, and the tape of him shows him making left tackles look silly. He looks fast, but a lot of times he looks out of position and a bit spastic. If you think he's a top-20 pick you're suggesting that he'll be drafted ahead of Laurinaitis, Sintim and Matthews. Really? I'm not entirely sold on Matthews, but I would certainly draft Laurinaitis or Sintim before taking a shot on Barwin.

As big as he was there was always concern about Gholston making the transition to LB. For every Matt Jones there is a Brian Urlacher, and we know BB likes FOOTBALL PLAYERS. But with his love of "legacys"(Slater) I would bet Matthews is our pick at 23, and I wouldnt be surprised to see us take Barwin at 34 and turn him into a Dallas Clark-type TE. We know how BB loves his TEs.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Mamula was a pretty good college player - I think he had about 13 sacks as a senior. But he was always seen as an undersized DE and that's basically what he ended up being his entire NFL career. What Mamula represents though, is guys who get overdrafted based on measurables that don't translate to their position and then fail to live up to the high expectations.

So, he was an undersized DE drafted to play "DE" in a 4-3 system similar to what he played in college? The Eagles overdraft a prospect 'for their system' and Barwin must wear the badge of Mamula. This comparison is getting off to a great start.

Amazingly, it happens every single year. Football players are evaluated based on hundreds of plays over their careers. And then, after they've played their last snap, they rise and fall on the draft boards because of a single 40 time.

Nice, but again what does this have to do with Barwin? Since you seemed to have missed patchick's efforts to correct your erroneous characterization, I'll repeat it for you: Barwin started rising towards the end of the college season as draftniks, pundits, and yes scouts too, had time to digest a full season's work at his new position. He rose from a mid-round pick to a second rounder after the season - just as Clay Matthews Jr. rose from a mid-round pick to a first round pick as his performance as a starter was evaluated. Now some of the better pundits and draftnik sites are suggesting Barwin is a late first round value, based NOT on a single 40, but on a display of athleticism they did not expect. What is the difference between a second rounder and a late first rounder? In most cases it's measurables and athleticism.

And the reason why I put the word "amazingly" in front of that sentence, is because most of the time their ranking before the combine is actually more reflective of their NFL careers. Of course that's a debatable statement, but I'm sticking with it until somebody proves me wrong.

Well, the decision will get made in a month, the only way to prove you wrong or right is to hold the draft and wait to see where he lands. We'll see if it's another Eagle's draft trying to make a poor fit work, or if this is like Parcells drafting that kid out of little bitty Troy at #10 and turning him into a somewhat acceptable OLB.

Now for the Barwin/Mamula comparison - same position...

Really? I thought we were talking OLB?

...same size, similar productivity against competition that wasn't alway top tier...

Again, how is this even relevant? DeMarcus Ware has the same measurements, but since Ware actually is used similarly to how NE might use Barwin, he might be the better comparison? H'mmm.

...same crazy hype over measurables that don't translate to his position...

Don't they? What is he, an Offensive Tackle?

Running a 4.4 40 would be better for him if he stayed as a TE. As an OLB, it's not going to help him set the edge against the run or beat a quality NFL tackle on a pass rush. And it's not going to help him that much cover a back coming out of the backfield running anything but a fly pattern.

Just who's hung up on the 40 time? I know what his ten yard split is, I know what his 3-cone is, both have more relevance to his use at either OLB or TE. You've got Mamula and 40 on the brain, sounds like a rut to me.

There's no question that Barwin is an excellent athlete.

So how is that bad?

If you think about it logically - the guy only played 1 year on the defensive side of the ball.

Okay, that's one factor. Another factor is Barwin's TE experience, he understands route running, "logically" isn't that relevant? How is your comparison to Mamula 'logical?'

He played in a conference where he was not facing top tier competition on a weekly basis.

Cincinnati played 14 games counting their bowl game, 9 of 14 opponents played in the postseason. The Big East may not be the SEC, but they are a BCS conference. Your competition argument is bologna.

He was simply able to cause disruption and accumulate stats due to his athletic superiority.

And he'd be that much better if he accomplished nothing? You complain about success using his athletic gifts as if they were evil.

How many times, during a real game, do you think Barwin has dropped into coverage or played out of a 2-point stance? I would be willing to bet that you can probably count on 2 hands all the plays for his entire career that exist on film when he has done either of those 2 things. So how do you make an evaluation on drafting a guy like that in the first round to play OLB? There's practically no evidence that suggests he can break down and tackle in space. You can't even pretend to make a judgment as to his instincts in coverage, or as a LB in general.

I'm sorry, but have you seen him play? I have. So I have to ask you, which of us is making their decision on the thinnest data?

That represents a risk that's just way too big to take in the 1st round.

So it all comes down to risk. NE drafted Daniel Graham #21 overall and Ben Watson #32, both first round TEs. NE has three seasons of tape, plus high school, of this kid as a TE and they worked him out in a private workout as a TE. They have four seasons on him playing Special Teams. Fans may be unhappy with Graham and Watson as TEs, but I'd be surprised if BB felt he'd got less than fair value from them, and if NE drafts Barwin at #23, he provides that athletic 4.49 forty TE to stretch the field and a top Special Teamer - at minimum. The risk you perceive seems excessive to the what little we fans know about this kid - and isn't it an axiom out of Patriot Reign that Coach Belichick wants to know what a player can do well? This kid plays basketball well - and don't tell me that was against inferior competition - which means he had to play well on his feet, mirror the player he was covering, and do a lot of thing he'll need to do in coverage. I've seen him drop in coverage, I've seen him square up and engage blockers (does it trouble you that NFL Draft Scout notes one of his positives is "physical at the point of attack?"), I've seen him square up and make tackles, and I've seen him use that quick first step to the basket form as part of his pass rush. This kid has a lot of tools that apply to a NE OLB - be risk averse all you want, maybe BB will agree with you and draft him as a TE, but this kid does things well when he's on the football field.

I agree with the people who say that we shouldn't expect rookies to become starters. The risk with Barwin isn't that he won't start from day 1. It's that he'll never become a full time player. Just think about that - the guy has to learn all the techniques of an OLB starting from square 1. Plus he has to adjust to the speed of the NFL. And he's going to have to do all this while he doesn't play in any games and fans on boards like this are going to be calling him a major bust.

Everything you cite here applies to every other OLB prospect in this draft, every one.

 

[nashvillepatsfan]

:yeahthat:

here's some highlights if you havent seen this already

YouTube - DE Connor Barwin Highlights Cincinnati 2008

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

You guys are whipping yourselves into a frenzy over an intruiging athlete who's thin on history. The stopwatch is not the deciding factor in the making of a football player.

Cool insight rook, so while you're running Barwin down over his Combine, could you at least tell me what games of his you watched and why his performance in that game makes him a poor fit for NE?

Remember how this board was talking about how important it was for the Pats to trade up for Vernon Gholston?

Yup, I also remember a significant portion of us dropping him off our shopping lists and focuing on Mayo - check out patchick's draft game from last year if you doubt me.

Remember how Matt Jones came rocketing up draftboards based on sheer talent and versatility, and teams projected him to QB, WR and maybe S too, he was just so good?

So where did you have Matt on your wish list? I know for a fact I had no interest in him. I never had Chad Jackson on my shopping list either, but keep projecting a lust for numbers on the rest of us who disagree with your assessment of Barwin.

And there wasn't a single drill that Chad Jackson didn't nail at the Combine. Everyone, myself included, was prepared to overlook his lack of experience cause his hands, and height, and speed were undeniable.

Bullfeathers, as cited above.

I like Barwin, and the tape of him shows him making left tackles look silly. He looks fast, but a lot of times he looks out of position and a bit spastic.

Everyone of the Barwin fans on this forum freely admit he has a lot to learn, it is indeed one of the negatives on his resume.

If you think he's a top-20 pick you're suggesting that he'll be drafted ahead of Laurinaitis, Sintim and Matthews. Really? I'm not entirely sold on Matthews, but I would certainly draft Laurinaitis or Sintim before taking a shot on Barwin.

I think he's a Top 20 value, that doesn't mean he's a Top 20 pick because there are 32 teams out there addressing their needs and weighing how Barwin's skillset will fit for them. Certainly two of the three you cite are more likely to be drafted ahead of Barwin. Laurinaitis and Matthews are going to be more attractive to 4-3 teams (that's 2/3rds of the NFL at the moment), and Matthews is a reasonable fit for the one-gap 3-4s like Dallas and San Diego. Sintim would appeal more to me if I was drafting him for Green Bay or Denver or Kansas City or even Miami where his 3-4 experience will put him in play sooner for teams that will need production much sooner than NE might.

You would draft Laurinaitis ahead of Barwin, fine, that's your draft board - Laurinaitis is a late second on my board. Sintim is a good value pick. If NE takes him at #23 I'll have no complaint, but I think Barwin's ceiling is much higher than Sintim's and I'd rather take the long view. Besides, it looks like Sintim is more likely to last into the second round than Barwin.