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Barwin runs a 4.47 at pro day

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by tanked_as_usual, Mar 21, 2009.

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  1. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    now, if the pats want him, they will be lucky to get him at 23......

    I'd take him over any other prospect
  2. CanadianPat'sFan

    CanadianPat'sFan Rookie

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    BB has some picks to move up and the Saints are prime contenders I think. BB will go as high as he needs to get the player he wants and has the money (Picks)in the bank to do it.
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2009
  3. Feep50

    Feep50 Rookie

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    You are sooooooooooo right about this!
    4.47 is impressive. Any other measurables, 3 cone? etc?

    :cool:
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2009
  4. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    Barwin's other measurables are all top of the charts. He was also impressive at the combine so this doesn't surprise me now. I can see Barwin's stock rising even more. He's definitely a 1st rounder now.

    Event Rank Among Dlinemen
    40 2nd 4.66s
    Bench NR
    Vertical 1st 40.5in3
    Broad Jump 1st(t) 10.8ft
    3 Cone Drill 1st 6.87s
    20 yard shuttle 1st 4.18
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2009
  5. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He kept his Combine score for the 3-cone 6.87. He only ran the 40 and did position drills.
  6. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yep, every position drill. :) Fascinating decision, that. Risky in many ways, but the fact that he apparently pulled it off well has to leave teams impressed with his confidence, as well as his athleticism and endurance.
  7. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But not rook, he's still expecting Barwin to be there at #34.
  8. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He also did the bench press, posting 23 reps. He publicly stated that he had hoped to improve over his combine reps (21).

    I would go crazy over his reported 40 time of 4.47. I don't think it adds anything to his status at this time. He had already clearly won the "workout warrior" award for this year (or at least one of them) as an athletic freak. What stood out most at his pro day, from what I understand, is how smooth he looked at multiple positional drills - TE, DE and LB. I do think that he has probably cemented a 1st round grade by this point. I'm not sure that I see him going much higher than 23 at this point, but I suppose it's possible. The next 4 weeks will be interesting to see if his stock appears to take a sharp rise, as most "professional" mocks still do not have him going in the first round.
  9. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Don't leave out the OL drills to demonstrate his blocking potential.

    He's one of those challenges to predict where he goes, but he's marketed himself as well as anybody could. There's 35 or so kids who might be drafted in the first round, I have to think he'd be interesting to most teams on defense, 3-4 or 4-3, not to mention he's looking to have at least a 2nd round grade as a TE.
  10. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    Well said, and I agree with those who say the 40 time can be overrated.

    Many here who are raving about Barwin know a lot more about him than I do, so I'm interested--do you think he's more of a physical freak than a football player, ala Chad Jackson, or does he look like the real thing in game situations?

    Either way, sounds to me like he's a developmental project at this point. and as long as BB addresses the pass rush for this season, color me intrigued with Barwin (just not at #23 or higher ;)).
  11. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Let's see...he was the #1 TE for Cincinnati, coming off an 8 reception, 1 TD Bowl game, and his head coach asks him to switch to DE...where he's only able to record 11 sacks, 15.5 TFL, 7 QBH, and 7 PD. Doubtless it was all his athletic skill and had nothing to do with any capacity for football, but I can't help but think he has some football potential.
  12. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't think Barwin is just a physical freak. He had impressive productivity for his first year on defense, with 11 sacks and numerous other statistics. He has a terrific list of intangibles - relentless motor, very confident but not too ****y, intelligent kid, seems to adapt well to change, etc. These all separate him from Jackson.

    He is clearly raw however, as a defensive prospect. A lot of his productivity was based on a combination of effort and athleticism rather than technique. The big question I see is, will he be someone who learns quickly and whose ability translates well to the next level, or someone who was productive at the collegiate level based on his athleticism but doesn't have the technical foundation or skills to move to the next level? I lean strongly towards the former, but it's just a guess.

    My personal guess is that he would be productive on ST, as a situational TE, and in specific situations at the beginning of the year, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get major playing time by the end of his rookie year. He seems to be a really quick learner, and his basketball and TE experience make him much more suited to adapt to playing in space than the average DE to OLB conversion project. I think you'd see a Meriweather kind of learning curve (versus a Mayo or Mankins learning curve), with hints of ability during his rookie year and a major jump in year 2 as a starter. But it's just a guess.
  13. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    I was looking more for impressions about how he looks playing LB than a bunch of stats, but thanks all the same. I'm starting to warm up to the idea, then the best I get from you are his season stats? So I guess it's only fair to throw CJ out there again: Combine stats+college stats+the way a guy looks flexing at the combine/pro day= what? Did you watch any Cincy games last year? I didn't.
  14. JMarr

    JMarr Rookie

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    Thanks. Like I said, I know squat about the guy other than what I read here and on some mock draft sites. Like anyone else I'm skeptical of over-hype, that's the main reason Barwin is on my radar these days.
  15. ctpatsfan77

    ctpatsfan77 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  16. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    By my best recollection I saw at least 5 and as many as 7 Cincy games. He first caught my attention while I was checking out CB Mike Mickens and OG Trevor Canfield. Barwin's ball awareness caught my eye, he'd be rushing the passer one breath and the next he's in the air as the ball was released knocking down the pass or altering the throw. He has a nose for the ball, you'd see it on run plays too. I saw him check his rush and run with the RB on a wheel route, I saw him playing up on his feet moving down the line of scrimmage to vary his pass rush and disrupt the blocking scheme. I saw him pull a Vrabel as a goal line TE, he blocked fairly well and he caught one TD. He was on the Punting unit and according to statistics he returned two KO for an average of 10 yds, so it seems he's also a blocker on the KR unit.

    Now, if you want to equate him to Chad Jackson without ever having seen him play, be my guest.
  17. Belichicknumber1

    Belichicknumber1 Banned

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    The biggest thing i think alot of people are missing is, he knew his 21 reps were not that impressive. So he went and worked at the one thing he could improve. That just shows me the guy is smart and willing to put the work in to improve his stock. 23 reps thats 2 more in a month. I really like this guy alot. Just a quick question to some of you forum vets or whoever. What do you guys think of Laurinaitis at 23 and Barwin at 34. I never really liked Laurinaitis but the boy is a football player. One of those blue collar guys who just seems to get the job done. Thoughts? My first post glad to join real pats fans.:singing:
  18. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Howdy neighbor.

    Laurinaitis is a slower version of Mayo and Guyton, I'd prefer to get someone alongside Mayo who displayed more downhill play and better physicallity taking on blockers. Check out Jason Phillips (TCU) - he played MLB in a 3-3-5 formation for the #2 defense. In that formation he didn't have any big DTs to hide behind like the 4-3 boys. Watching him in the Shrine Game he was always squared up to the LOS and he was the one LB who was never forced backward by OL coming out to block him. 6'8" 325 OT Ramon Foster came out for him and had a couple steps to build up a little steam - Phillips stopped him cold forcing the RB to redirect. That's the kind of ILB I'd like to see playing alongside Mayo, none of these sheltered side-to-side lads like Maualuga, Brinkley, etc. Between Mayo, Guyton, maybe Ruud, and someone like Phillips, you've got ILB covered for the next few years.
  19. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think his ball awareness comes a lot from his basketball background, where his greatest skill was as a shot blocker. He definitely has a little of that "flow to the ball" kind of feel to him.
  20. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Welcome to the club.

    Barwin clearly has an aggressive/assertive side without being arrogant. He didn't sit on his 40 time from the combine even though it was quite good, because he said he knew he could run faster. He was openly disappointed at his bench press, so he did it again at his pro day. Not a huge improvement, but just the effort shows something. He worked out at 3-4 different positions on his pro day. That takes a lot of hutzpah. It's not like the QBs where the run carefully choreographed passing trees under no pressure. He clearly likes to push himself and to take on new challenges, and he seems to have embraced the idea of being a 3-4 OLB - both because it is a new challenge, and because he seems to love the idea of combining a defensive mentality with playing in space.

    Regarding Laurinaitis, I totally agree with Box's comments above. Laurinaitis is a nice kid and a solid player, but he's similar to Mayo in style and considerably less athletic. I also agree with the comments on Jason Phillips, who would be a nice 2nd day pickup, and who is likely not to go quite as high as he could because of his injury. Phillips also has some great intangibles - a coaches' son, tough, high character, very high motor kid. I see a little bit of James Farrior in him.
  21. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    All this hoopla about his 40 times and number of bench reps makes me thing of 2 words - Mike Mamula.

    I'm sure Barwin is a very gifted athlete. But he's also only played 1 year on Defense. And that was as a DE against second-tier competition. There's no telling how well he'll be able to play in space - either against the run or the pass. His technique as an OLB will need a LOT of work. And there's just not telling how good his instincts are in coverage. One initial false step can turn that 4.4 time into 4.9 or worse.

    I believe the Patriots' approach to the 1st round is to avoid "boom or bust" guys and instead draft guys with a high floor, consistent production, and low bust potential. IMHO, Connor Barwin is the antithesis of that type of player, so I would be highly surprised if they take him at 23.
  22. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    not to split hairs, but was it 5 cincy games or 7 that you saw? otherwise, it just sounds like you're full of fecal matter
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2009
  23. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You mean like Ben Watson? Lawrence Maroney? Perhaps those are arguments against Barwin as neither has turned out to be world-beaters so far, but I don't think that the risk-avoidance principle is entirely accurate.
  24. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    You can never avoid risk completely. I think both players you named have been decent contributors. Certainly not world beaters, but decent starters when healthy. But if you look at the 2 biggest busts so far, I'd have to point to Chad Jackson and Bethel Johnson. Both of those guys went in the 35-40 range, I think. And even Chad had a boatload of production in college, but he came out early so didn't have as much of a body of work.

    Getting back to Barwin, I'd say he's even more of a boom/bust type of prospect than Bethel (Barwin probably has a higher upside, but Bethel was a good bet to be a superior KO returner.) I'd just rather not see him picked at either 23 or 34. If he's still there at 48, he becomes worth a serious look.
  25. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well I am full of fecal matter, but as to Cincy games, I saw at least 5, and when I look at the schedule I seem to remember watching a couple others, so sue me for lack of perfect recall.
  26. mayoclinic

    mayoclinic PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If he's still there at 48, it will mean we've passed on him 3 times. :D We pick at 23, 34 and 47.

    I'd love Barwin to last till 47, but I really don't think it's going to happen. Lasting till 34 looks pretty dubious right now. If you don't like him earlier that's fine, but don't count on him to still be available there.
  27. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    He sure does look like a Parcells guy too. He may be there at 34 if he can get by Miami's 1st rounder. I'd be flat out shocked if he was there at 47. All I have to say is if BB passes on him 3 times,more than likely he see's something he doesn't like in the kid or just likes other players better.
  28. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    Or maybe he passes on him because he hasn't seen enough to feel safe about spending a 1st or early 2nd round pick on him.
  29. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    I'm not counting on him being there. I'm just saying that's where I'd consider him for the Pats. And thanks for pointing out the mistake, I did mean 47.
  30. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

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    Barwin's #'s sure do seem like Mike Mamula. Part of me prays he's there at #34 and we take him, and another part of me is scared to take him. Darn this split personality, lol.
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