Barwin: positives and negatives

[ctpatsfan77]

First, positives:

Barwin's stock has a chance to go through the roof at next month's NFL Scouting Combine. While training in the UC weight room, Barwin is also working with Clif Marshall at Ignition Sports, a Cincinnati suburban gym where Marshall preps prospects for combine testing. He believes he's dealing with an athletic freak.

"Out of the 15 guys I've got, he's the biggest and he's got the lowest body fat. He's got just 10," Marshall said when he called in to check in on Barwin's day. "And in front of all these receivers and DBs, he did a vertical leap of about 34 inches."

Plus, Marshall is convinced that Barwin's frame is big enough to put on another 20 pounds or so and be a Justin Smith-like 275 pounds.

And the negative:

The switch to end wasn't the first time Barwin had to adapt himself. He was born mostly deaf in both ears. He learned to read lips as a child and still looks at a person's mouth during a conversation. To correct his hearing, he underwent five or six surgeries, the last one when he was in fifth or sixth grade, he said. Despite the surgeries, he had complications in his left ear, including tumors and infections.

Now, he can only hear a little bit out of his left ear, which has an extraordinarily deep canal. His hearing deficiency was a problem last season when he lined up on the right side of the quarterback, because he couldn't hear the snap count and was sometimes late getting off the line.

It's not an issue on defense, because he just moves when the tackle across from him moves. Other things, though, haven't changed.

Oh, BTW--the Pats didn't do too badly with another criminal justice major from Cincinnati.

 

[patchick]

Oh, BTW--the Pats didn't do too badly with another criminal justice major from Cincinnati.

...who was also an incredible physical specimen. Interesting stuff, thanks! Barwin is exactly the sort I'd pick for a private visit/workout, the more you can learn, the better.

 

[mayoclinic]

Positives:

- versatility - had played multiple positions; can play DE, probably 3-4 OLB, possibly 3-4 SILB, and TE
- athleticism
- high upside
- intelligence - both in the classroom and on the field; has been able to make quick position change with success
- character
- high motor
- team player

Negatives:

- no experience playing LB in 3-4
- only 1 year experience on defense; still refining technique

I wasn't aware of his partial deafness, though it doesn't seem to be an issue on the field.

An interesting read: Senior Bowl: Versatility the selling point for Cincinnati's Barwin - USATODAY.com

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Positives:

- versatility - had played multiple positions; can play DE, probably 3-4 OLB, possibly 3-4 SILB, and TE
- athleticism
- high upside
- intelligence - both in the classroom and on the field; has been able to make quick position change with success
- character
- high motor
- team player

Negatives:

- no experience playing LB in 3-4
- only 1 year experience on defense; still refining technique

I wasn't aware of his partial deafness, though it doesn't seem to be an issue on the field.

An interesting read: Senior Bowl: Versatility the selling point for Cincinnati's Barwin - USATODAY.com

As Box noted, though, the fact that he's still refining his technique means he has fewer bad habits to unlearn. And, given how quickly he picked up DE, he might well be able to pick up OLB pretty quickly, too.

 

[mayoclinic]

I thought it was interesting in the USAToday article that he said that the most exciting option to him would be 3-4 OLB because it would be a new challenge. He seems like the kind of kid who thrives on that.

 

[patchick]

- versatility - had played multiple positions; can play DE, probably 3-4 OLB, possibly 3-4 SILB, and TE

Also a solid rebounder with some shot-blocking skills, but not much of a shooter.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Also a solid rebounder with some shot-blocking skills, but not much of a shooter.

True, but . . .

Although he was a two-sport start at Jesuit High in Detroit, he came to Cincinnati to follow the more promising path -- football. When he arrived on campus before the start of the 2005-06 season, the school was known for its streak of 14 straight NCAA tournament appearances under Huggins, who was feuding with the university president.

Then, Huggins was gone. A few months later, interim coach Andy Kennedy was looking for help for his depleted roster and contacted some football players who had basketball backgrounds.

Barwin, a freshman, decided to walk on.

Seriously, the more I read about Barwin, the more he sounds like a prototypical Patriot.

 

[MetalBleachers]

We know he's athletic; we know he can adapt. What we don't know is how long it will take him to contribute to a 3-4 defense at OLB.

That remains the biggest reason to avoid taking him too early: the unknown. If he's still available by NE's second Round 2 pick, then I say go right ahead. Any earlier than that and it might be too big a chance.

His combine (esp. bench press) will help determine where he goes, at least in my mind. And that's what BB and Floyd want to know: my opinion.

 

[RayClay]

I'd be much more concerned about him playing OLB than how much he can bench press. What's our success rate been with fast/strong athletes with less production, undefined positions as opposed to productive football players that weren't outstanding in track/gym measurables?

I would say not very good.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'd be much more concerned about him playing OLB than how much he can bench press. What's our success rate been with fast/strong athletes with less production, undefined positions as opposed to productive football players that weren't outstanding in track/gym measurables?

I would say not very good.

That may be, but Barwin has been extremely productive at DE: 46 tackles, 12.5 tackles for loss and 10 sacks, 6 pass break-ups, 4 QB hurries and 3 blocked punts/kicks.

I don't care what he bench presses. I don't really care how he works out at the combine, except that if he posts fantastic numbers other teams may be more likely to jump on him early. What impresses me about him is his versatility and his character. Those are amazing numbers for a first year DE with no prior background at the position.

Here's another link to some info on Barwin:

Connor Barwin, 2009 NFL Draft Prospect

 

[AzPatsFan]

As Belichick has said players making a position switch are less certain others. He doesn't gamble in Round One.

That is why he drafts DE-->OLBs later, and not in the first round. Barwin would make a fine pick with any of our 2nd and 3rd round picks.

But as the general who is always prepares for the LAST war, and onestep late, how do you know that the OLB position is not already rebuilt,and merely waiitng the players on-hand to bloom? Woods, Crabel, Redd and others to go with Vrabel, AD, and maybe a healthy Rosey, could be a pretty stocked position.

 

[mayoclinic]

As Belichick has said players making a position switch are less certain others. He doesn't gamble in Round One.

That is why he drafts DE-->OLBs later, and not in the first round. Barwin would make a fine pick with any of our 2nd and 3rd round picks.

But as the general who is always prepares for the LAST war, and onestep late, how do you know that the OLB position is not already rebuilt,and merely waiitng the players on-hand to bloom? Woods, Crabel, Redd and others to go with Vrabel, AD, and maybe a healthy Rosey, could be a pretty stocked position.

I wasn't aware that anyone was suggesting Barwin in the 1st at this point. Much as I like him, I'd have to see more before going that far. But I like him in the 2nd round.

It's possible that the OLB position is already rebuilt, but it doesn't seem likely. Woods showed competence but no flashes of brilliance last year. Redd is still raw. And Crable didn't get enough playing time to show us much for certain. Also, I personally think that Barwin could move inside and make a great SILB, so I still think he may have value.

 

[RayClay]

As Belichick has said players making a position switch are less certain others. He doesn't gamble in Round One.

That is why he drafts DE-->OLBs later, and not in the first round. Barwin would make a fine pick with any of our 2nd and 3rd round picks.

But as the general who is always prepares for the LAST war, and onestep late, how do you know that the OLB position is not already rebuilt,and merely waiitng the players on-hand to bloom? Woods, Crabel, Redd and others to go with Vrabel, AD, and maybe a healthy Rosey, could be a pretty stocked position.

Actually, our DE-OLB switches have been the fourth overall pick (McGinest) 3rd rounder OLB>ILB Bruschi (by Parcells) and two trained by other teams #rd Vrabel, 4th Colvin.

Of our starters in the BB era, none has been drafted at DE by us. We've drafted few LBs and none who have stuck until Mayo.

Woods and TBC are the closest. Despite the fact Woods played some OLB, I'd count him if he was a solid starter which he's yet to prove.

The low round Patriots defensive end draftee who becomes a solid OLB starter is a creature of myth.

 

[DaBruinz]

Actually, our DE-OLB switches have been the fourth overall pick (McGinest) 3rd rounder OLB>ILB Bruschi (by Parcells) and two trained by other teams #rd Vrabel, 4th Colvin.

Of our starters in the BB era, none has been drafted at DE by us. We've drafted few LBs and none who have stuck until Mayo.

Woods and TBC are the closest. Despite the fact Woods played some OLB, I'd count him if he was a solid starter which he's yet to prove.

The low round Patriots defensive end draftee who becomes a solid OLB starter is a creature of myth.

Vrabel wasn't an OLB for the Steelers. He was a DE and they were running a 4-3 at the time, not a 3-4. Vrabel didn't move to 3-4 OLB until he got to the Patriots. And that was in 2002. After spending a year at the starting RDE. Colvin was trained to be a 4-3 OLB. So the switch was a bit easier.

But lets not forget that Bruschi actually went from DE to 4-3 OLB to 3-4 ILB. And, according to him, it took him 3 years to fully grasp his job as a 3-4 ILB.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

The question in my mind is can Barwin beat out Woods (unlikely) or Redd (more likely) on ST??

If he can then BB is afforded the luxury of developing Barwin and maybe using him a bit as a goal line TE, while NFL calibre players are manning the OLB starter spots.

At this point I see Barwin as more potential than ability. But BB once drafted Bethel Johnson in the second round based ebntirely on speed with very little production to backup using that high a draft pick.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

News - Vrabel variable - Cincinnati Bengals

A day after he opened eyes in pass-rush drills as a defensive end, Barwin on Thursday rushed past the North linebackers with ease to catch a number of balls as a tight end in another set of one-on-one drills.
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"Three-way," Lewis said. "Offense. Defense. Special teams."
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With all the Mike Vrabel comparisons now streaming in, one guy says they aren't all that far-fetched. Jay Hayes should know. He arrived as the Steelers special teams coach when Vrabel was in his second year out of Ohio State, long before Vrabel turned into the Patriots' two-way threat as a linebacker/sacker and goal-line TD maker.

(Vrabel has eight career touchdown receptions. Kelly has three in six Bengals seasons.)

"There are a lot of similarities," Hayes said. "Michael is a bigger man, but Vrabel didn't play basketball at a Big East school. Although he would probably tell you that he he could. When Mike was at the Steelers for a few years, he got up to 265-270 pounds and I remember when I was in the Big 10 (Wisconsin), he was a good 245-250 then. I think Connor can get there, but not right away.

"Mike was a core special-teams guy, a great player that way. He could go all day. Tireless. (Barwin) seems to be (that way.) I bet you he probably is always in shape. That's what it looks like to me. He likes to play."
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But Hayes could also see Barwin doing a Vrabel on the goal line.

"No question he's a guy you can put as a wing or tight end in a goal-line situation because you know he can possibly block some people," he said. "I don't know what type of blocker he is, but I know you can run a lot of play-action with him and then slipping a blocker and catching a dump pass or whatever."

 

[tanked_as_usual]

barwin can still be an impact while learning the OLB position......

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

barwin can still be an impact while learning the OLB position......

Zactly.


....

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

More detail on Barwin's Senior Bowl:

News - Two-way go - Cincinnati Bengals

The author forgot to mention Barwin was a three-way player, not two.

 

[tanked_as_usual]

Vrabel wasn't an OLB for the Steelers. He was a DE and they were running a 4-3 at the time, not a 3-4. Vrabel didn't move to 3-4 OLB until he got to the Patriots. And that was in 2002. After spending a year at the starting RDE. Colvin was trained to be a 4-3 OLB. So the switch was a bit easier.

But lets not forget that Bruschi actually went from DE to 4-3 OLB to 3-4 ILB. And, according to him, it took him 3 years to fully grasp his job as a 3-4 ILB.

DB.....I dont believe this is true......the last time the steelers played 4-3, jack lambert was in the middle