Barking up the Wrong Tree...

[Shelterdog]

He can and he will. Mankins is financially set for life. He has been very shrewd with his finances and has indicated that he is a man of principles and will walk out if he feels he is disrespected.

And this time--unlike last year--he REALLY means it!

 

[Ring 6]

I think Light will be fairly expensive - $5 million or so a year for two to three year. Is using the number 17 pick on DE/OLB and $5 million (or whatever the final contract is) on Light (and deferring rebuilding the line another year) a better use of money than using the 17 pick on Solder and the Light million elsewhere? That's a pivotal question.

I prefer rebuilding the line before it's too late but it's obviously open for debate.

$5million is an extremely low estimate.
For some reason people think that because he has been here 10 years and isnt young he isnt going to ask for market value. There are plenty of teams out there that need a LT and will pay a lot for one as good as Light.
Regardless of the crap he takes on this board the coaches and players in the league think enough of him to put him in the pro bowl ahead of guys who have gotten a lot more than 5mill a year to play LT.

 

[patsfanboy]

Talk about denial. First of all pass rush is important, it is not only putting pressure as people seems to think. If you are pass rushing, there is one less person covering the field, so if you can't pass rush the game turns to be 11 on 10, and don't forget that we lost our last 3 play off games do the rush.

Everyone talks about how young your Defense is, but in the DL they are too old, Ty warren have a few good years left, Stroud and Warren are past their prime, and i am afraid for Mike Wright (our sack leader) because he is concussion prone, and last year it was really bad.

Our OLB is really thin, if Cunningham gets injured we are in trouble, Ninko is a good as a back up, TBC is old right now and he can only rush and not very effective at it. I am glad that we drafted Cater, but he might will be a red shirt player or in the practice squad. I don't see anyone in the FA worth signing, so the only solution is to sign some UDFA whenever this whole lockout thing ends, and develop them for the next season.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Talk about denial. First of all pass rush is important, it is not only putting pressure as people seems to think. If you are pass rushing, there is one less person covering the field, so if you can't pass rush the game turns to be 11 on 10, and don't forget that we lost our last 3 play off games do the rush.

Everyone talks about how young your Defense is, but in the DL they are too old, Ty warren have a few good years left, Stroud and Warren are past their prime, and i am afraid for Mike Wright (our sack leader) because he is concussion prone, and last year it was really bad.

Our OLB is really thin, if Cunningham gets injured we are in trouble, Ninko is a good as a back up, TBC is old right now and he can only rush and not very effective at it. I am glad that we drafted Cater, but he might will be a red shirt player or in the practice squad. I don't see anyone in the FA worth signing, so the only solution is to sign some UDFA whenever this whole lockout thing ends, and develop them for the next season.

Then you have not been looking too hard or considered all the possibilities.

The Pats finished with 36 sacks, which was 14th and middling in the league while playing a rookie and a vet new starter for the first time. While their best DL rusher missed half the season. If you project over the last half of the season after that got introduced to each other, the Pats pass rush was sacking at a rate of about 48 sacks/year.

You have forgotten trades, son. Ah say... Ah say, Pay attenshun don, ah say, you have forgotten the option of trades. I think Manny Lawson or Chris Gocong, or Kamerion Wembly or Mathias Kiwanuka would all look good in a Pats OLB uniform. So ah think I'll take two. Nick Kaczur for anyone of them, maybe.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Now how about this compelling move? What would kill Rex and the Jets organization more than anything? Vernon Gholson at the new starting OLB for the Pats! With all the pressure off of him as a first round pick,a different scheme and one of the best LB teachers in the sport in BB and the price will be minimal, the results could be spectacular. He has all the physical tools and he does have some NFL years albeit from the bench. How about a special project to rip the J..E..T..S.. jets,jets,jets heart out? Is he worth a shot in pre season?

DW Toys

Did you just cite picking up Vernon Gholston as a 'compelling move' for the Pats? *facepalm* Now I've heard everything.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Faulty logic if you dont read. I never stated we DONT have play makers period. I said I dont see a play maker in the group of Stroud, Deadrick, LOVE, TBC and Ninkovich. And I also stated I feel in the draft we had an opportunity to get someone with a higher ceiling in the draft. Where is the fault in that logic?



Right so we should stay away from picking OLB in the draft because we are afraid to pick? Is that what you are saying? Also what you seem to be saying is that we don't need a player of that caliber at DE and OLB. Got it that makes total sense.



How was the youth and inexperience of Mathews? Don't you think his youth and inexperience helped the Green bay packers defense. You are avoiding talking about whom you have starting for this team at OLB, Ninko and TBC and even at one spot at DE which is a bunch of depth players. Unless you are saying TBC and Ninko are too young and somehow they will improve.



What does that have to do with my point of play makers at OLB where the is room for improvement since you will have to start either TBC or NInko on one side. Are you comfortable with that? Don't you feel there is room for improvement there?

Come on now you want to address how you see we will improve at those positions fine but don't give me unorganized thoughts.

Again, plenty of playmakers

Who exactly is AFRAID of drafting an OLB? It's called scouting and talent evaluation. Assigning fear for not drafting an OLB can only come from pass rusher on the brain.

Clay Matthews? Again, watch football. There typically have 11 defenders on the field during the game. My advice is to go and actually look at the Green Bay defensive roster. (Hint: they weren't starting four rookies)

Ya might want to go back 2005-2006 and review the old Favre interviews. While the Packers were going 4-12 and 8-8, the ole gunsligger said he came back because of all the young talent.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Don't let him convince you. While I agree that BB did a good job picking players needed and seemingly getting them in good value slots, if the goal was to build a Super Bowl defense via this draft, he didn't get the job done.

With two picks in the first round, he could have moved up and gotten an impact prospect on the d-line AND trade up to get Solder. With two picks in the second round, he could have moved up. He chose not to. Fairley was picked at #13. Pats were #17. If you go by the draft pick value chart, that would have cost BB #17 and a 3rd rounder. Use the same formula for a OLB du jour.

Plus the defense was proven to be not ready for prime time. They will improve a little next year but with 0 sacks vs NYJ and 6 of their last 8 games vs crappy offenses padded the stats. They still let up 26 to Pitt, 28 to Indy, 28 to the NYJ and 27 to GB.

Lots of room for improvement on defense.

We gave up 26 to Pittsburgh. Clay Matthews gave up 25.

We gave up 27 to GB. Pittsburgh pass rush gave up 31.

(Hint: your choice of examples is really quite stupid)

28 to the Jets....with 21 points from very short fields. It's simply amazing that people would actually come here and and think that means something.

Fairly sucks.

All the OLB's sucked.

Posters who think and post otherwise pretty much suck. "Impact players" concept is stupid and it really sucks.

 

[RobertWeathers]

We gave up 26 to Pittsburgh. Clay Matthews gave up 25.

We gave up 27 to GB. Pittsburgh pass rush gave up 31.

(Hint: your choice of examples is really quite stupid)

28 to the Jets....with 21 points from very short fields. It's simply amazing that people would actually come here and and think that means something.

Fairly sucks.

All the OLB's sucked.

Posters who think and post otherwise pretty much suck. "Impact players" concept is stupid and it really sucks.

Whats with the obnoxious attitude? Are you capable of offering a mature response? If not, don't.

-Allowing 27 to a backup QB at home is pathetic.

-Allowing 28 short-field or no short field to a crappy Jets offense at a home playoff games is poor.

The defense is not ready for prime time. Keep believing otherwise.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Then you have not been looking too hard or considered all the possibilities.

The Pats finished with 36 sacks, which was 14th and middling in the league while playing a rookie and a vet new starter for the first time. While their best DL rusher missed half the season. If you project over the last half of the season after that got introduced to each other, the Pats pass rush was sacking at a rate of about 48 sacks/year.

You have forgotten trades, son. Ah say... Ah say, Pay attenshun don, ah say, you have forgotten the option of trades. I think Manny Lawson or Chris Gocong, or Kamerion Wembly or Mathias Kiwanuka would all look good in a Pats OLB uniform. So ah think I'll take two. Nick Kaczur for anyone of them, maybe.

Manny Lawson is a good possibility. I think hes a free agent.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/04/22/help-wanted-new-england-patriots/

Originally Posted by robertweathers
Don't let him convince you. While I agree that BB did a good job picking players needed and seemingly getting them in good value slots, if the goal was to build a Super Bowl defense via this draft, he didn't get the job done.

With two picks in the first round, he could have moved up and gotten an impact prospect on the d-line AND trade up to get Solder. With two picks in the second round, he could have moved up. He chose not to. Fairley was picked at #13. Pats were #17. If you go by the draft pick value chart, that would have cost BB #17 and a 3rd rounder. Use the same formula for a OLB du jour.

Plus the defense was proven to be not ready for prime time. They will improve a little next year but with 0 sacks vs NYJ and 6 of their last 8 games vs crappy offenses padded the stats. They still let up 26 to Pitt, 28 to Indy, 28 to the NYJ and 27 to GB.
Lots of room for improvement on defense.

Your assuming the other team is gonna make the trade, it takes two to tango, for all we know BB tried to move up but couldnt make a deal.

[

 

[Deus Irae]

Manny Lawson is a good possibility. I think hes a free agent.

Help Wanted: New England Patriots | ProFootballFocus.com





Your assuming the other team is gonna make the trade, it takes two to tango, for all we know BB tried to move up but couldnt make a deal.

[

Lawson was tendered an offer as a RFA. Unless a new CBA is worked out with shorter free agency rules, Lawson's not going anywhere.

 

[IcyPatriot]

Every year since I came here in 2000 we get the pass rusher talk before the draft. I would think by this time any Patriot fan with average intelligence would see this is a need ... but not a great need. Bill likes coverage sacks - I am sure he has reasons.

Perhaps he has some mathematical formulas proving that pressuring the QB with inside pressure wears the opponent down in desirable ways. There has to be a reason he does it this way. Does he prefer turnovers to sacks?

 

[Deus Irae]

Every year since I came here in 2000 we get the pass rusher talk before the draft. I would think by this time any Patriot fan with average intelligence would see this is a need ... but not a great need. Bill likes coverage sacks - I am sure he has reasons.

Perhaps he has some mathematical formulas proving that pressuring the QB with inside pressure wears the opponent down in desirable ways. There has to be a reason he does it this way. Does he prefer turnovers to sacks?

Colvin and Thomas would seem to undercut your argument.

 

[patfanken]

The defense is not ready for prime time. Keep believing otherwise.

I think you have your verbs mixed up. The defense WAS not ready for prime time. We don't know how good it will be this year. However given the return of Ty Warren, Lee Bodden, and Mike Wright (yeah, I think he'll be be back, if they thought he wouldn't be ready, we might have seen a DE selection in the draft) AND the potential improvement in the backfield with another big physical CB. AND the natural improvement that comes when the youngest D in the league becomes less young and inexperienced; AND you could see improvement in the defense as the season went on; there is an excellent chance that the D WILL BE better. And that doesn't include what we pick up in FA

To say the D will suck before it plays a down, is ludicrous. Its fair to question it, but patently unfair to label it with the kind of certainty you implied.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I think everyone here saw the HUGE gaping hole at OLB. We dont have anyone that can opressure the QB at OLB on the roster. That was the big need wether it be a College 4-3DE converted (which many are and can be) but not a real 3-4 DE. Why this was not addresses I have no idea.

What, no love for Markell Carter?

 

[DW Toys]

Ok. you've mentioned in another thread that the Packers are a good drafting team. If you saw my response, you'd see that they are not better. Name one or two others who you think are better and I'll show you the same. You can say he is not flawless, but to say he is middle of the pack, you better have some damn good examples of who are better. Time to put up or shut up.

Read this link Cousin. CSN rates us 9th. Another has us at 14th.

O.K. I put up. Can I go to sleep now?

Maiocco: Five-year study of NFL drafts

Ted Thompson and the Packers are #1 in a five year study. Remember Cousin, we had two years where we shouldn't have even bothered waking up for the Draft in the last five years. They did not outweigh one winner. This year was weak but he set up some things like Mallet for a Cassel deal.

Somewhere around 9th or 14th is kind of middle of the pack. Is that a fair statement?

He is the best ever Coach but he Drafts out of fear to not make a mistake is why he trades off to the following year. It's like canceling an appointment with the Dentist. You know you have to have a day in the chair at some point but it is a relief for the time being.

You think BB ever does a deal like Dimitroff did? They even discussed it between themselves.

He will gamble on a 4th and 2 from his own 30 but not take a swing to get a Miller or Smith with all the ammo we had. What did he do? Traded out!

You know what he will do next year? Trade out. All the idiot media thinks that is so smart. Tell me how long this should go on before he actually takes a blue chip player to help us now instead of eight or nine "definite maybes"?

Yes the middle and end of this Draft was weak, but the sweet spot we needed to go after was there and we had picks. We pushed back.

How many of these nine we Drafted will be on the opening roster? Half? So we wasted ammo we could have used to get even better players up further.
DW Toys

 

[DW Toys]

Mock. Mock. Mock.

I would mock this post but it would be in vain.

Sorry Mock.
DW Toys

 

[Triple-T]

Read this link Cousin. CSN rates us 9th. Another has us at 14th.

O.K. I put up. Can I go to sleep now?

Maiocco: Five-year study of NFL drafts

Ted Thompson and the Packers are #1 in a five year study. Remember Cousin, we had two years where we shouldn't have even bothered waking up for the Draft in the last five years. They did not outweigh one winner. This year was weak but he set up some things like Mallet for a Cassel deal.

Somewhere around 9th or 14th is kind of middle of the pack. Is that a fair statement?

He is the best ever Coach but he Drafts out of fear to not make a mistake is why he trades off to the following year. It's like canceling an appointment with the Dentist. You know you have to have a day in the chair at some point but it is a relief for the time being.

You think BB ever does a deal like Dimitroff did? They even discussed it between themselves.

He will gamble on a 4th and 2 from his own 30 but not take a swing to get a Miller or Smith with all the ammo we had. What did he do? Traded out!

You know what he will do next year? Trade out. All the idiot media thinks that is so smart. Tell me how long this should go on before he actually takes a blue chip player to help us now instead of eight or nine "definite maybes"?

Yes the middle and end of this Draft was weak, but the sweet spot we needed to go after was there and we had picks. We pushed back.

How many of these nine we Drafted will be on the opening roster? Half? So we wasted ammo we could have used to get even better players up further.
DW Toys

You win. Some dude says we are 9th based on something. Hard to argue with that.

Seriously dude, last five years our best pick was Meriweather? Yeah, better than Mayo and McCourty. That's a joke, right? But I'll play along. You consider those 8 (Jets?) teams better drafters than the Pats, right? I'll be back later. Sleep well. (also, we also have 10 starters from the last 5 drafts, but 6 is close to that number.)

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Seems like you are practicing your hyperbole early this year. Granted the Pass rush isn't as good as the elite teams,.but it got better as the year went on. It ended up as the 14th best in sacks only 14 fewer than the top team in the league. Certainly it can be improved, but there were 17 teams who had fewer sacks. Lets try and keep it in perspective a little.

How many times did you scream at the TV asking for just a little pressure on the opposing QB? How many times did you see a pass rush that just didn't quite make it to the QB before he completed a 3rd and 15 for a first down? Foot ball isn't a saber metrics type of game, running fast and lifting weights are just basic qualifications to play in the NFL, eventually you have to actually deliver.

This defense needs somebody who can force the opposing team to plan for him. The last time we had a player like that was when Vrable was racking up a dozen sacks for us. The apologists are out in full force, I have read a half dozen pieces telling me why BB did such a great job last weekend, but not one of those articals told me where the pass rush would come from. The all added the qualifier that BB isn't done yet or that once free agengy starts..., but we have heard that before and the results have been so so, at best. When we have to depend on TBC to create pressure we are in trouble, and right now everybody keeps telling us that we have TBC (5), we have Cunningham (1) and we have Mike Wright (5.5), that would be 11.5 sacks and the leader on the team plays on the nose and missed most of the second half of the season.

I am a football guy, I see what I see. For this team to advance it needs a pass rush that makes the opposing QB have to worry. As of today, May 5, 2011, the NE Patriots do not have one of those guys and if recent history is any guide, we will not have one once the season starts.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

Read this link Cousin. CSN rates us 9th. Another has us at 14th.

O.K. I put up. Can I go to sleep now?

Maiocco: Five-year study of NFL drafts

Ted Thompson and the Packers are #1 in a five year study. Remember Cousin, we had two years where we shouldn't have even bothered waking up for the Draft in the last five years. They did not outweigh one winner. This year was weak but he set up some things like Mallet for a Cassel deal.

Somewhere around 9th or 14th is kind of middle of the pack. Is that a fair statement?

Wow

Talk about a stuck on stupid analysis. No wonder you like it.

It's like these guys put out idiot analysis and lure them in.

In 2010, over half the snaps taken by the Patriots were by first and second year players. In other words, this team at 14-2 was where the Packers were in 2005/6 going 4-12 and 8-8.

Since this analysis can't account for when teams rebuild, it's only use is to reinforce the delusions of the deluded.

The ole gunslinger kept putting off retirement because of the loads of young talent on the team. The gunslinger saw the potential once the team matures.

As such Matthews compliments experienced players like Collins, Woodson, Jenkins and Hawk.

He is the best ever Coach but he Drafts out of fear to not make a mistake is why he trades off to the following year. It's like canceling an appointment with the Dentist. You know you have to have a day in the chair at some point but it is a relief for the time being.

You think BB ever does a deal like Dimitroff did? They even discussed it between themselves.

He will gamble on a 4th and 2 from his own 30 but not take a swing to get a Miller or Smith with all the ammo we had. What did he do? Traded out!

You know what he will do next year? Trade out. All the idiot media thinks that is so smart. Tell me how long this should go on before he actually takes a blue chip player to help us now instead of eight or nine "definite maybes"?

Yes the middle and end of this Draft was weak, but the sweet spot we needed to go after was there and we had picks. We pushed back.

How many of these nine we Drafted will be on the opening roster? Half? So we wasted ammo we could have used to get even better players up further.
DW Toys

Belichick has zero fear. The proper term is scouting and talent evaluation.

Miller and Smith have bust written all over them. Ditto the kid from NC.

Just like Vernon Gholston, Aaron Maybin, Larry English, Anthony Spencer, Robert Ayers, Jerry Hughes, Everette Brown, Brandon Graham, Derrick Morgan.

The fear is actually in the buffoons who draft these guys and the guys who come on team sites and advocate "trading up" for busts because they oddly conclude these busts are "impact players".

I would bet that after years to touching the white hot stove, you would still touch and be befuddled that you get burned.

 

[patsfaninpittsburgh]

How many times did you scream at the TV asking for just a little pressure on the opposing QB? How many times did you see a pass rush that just didn't quite make it to the QB before he completed a 3rd and 15 for a first down? Foot ball isn't a saber metrics type of game, running fast and lifting weights are just basic qualifications to play in the NFL, eventually you have to actually deliver.

This defense needs somebody who can force the opposing team to plan for him. The last time we had a player like that was when Vrable was racking up a dozen sacks for us. The apologists are out in full force, I have read a half dozen pieces telling me why BB did such a great job last weekend, but not one of those articals told me where the pass rush would come from. The all added the qualifier that BB isn't done yet or that once free agengy starts..., but we have heard that before and the results have been so so, at best. When we have to depend on TBC to create pressure we are in trouble, and right now everybody keeps telling us that we have TBC (5), we have Cunningham (1) and we have Mike Wright (5.5), that would be 11.5 sacks and the leader on the team plays on the nose and missed most of the second half of the season.

I am a football guy, I see what I see. For this team to advance it needs a pass rush that makes the opposing QB have to worry. As of today, May 5, 2011, the NE Patriots do not have one of those guys and if recent history is any guide, we will not have one once the season starts.

Actually, you are not a football guy. You are someone who thinks they are a football guy but really isn't.

That's most likely the reason nobody has written any articles explaining to you where the pass rush comes from. It's not worth anybody's time.