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Balance the Budget

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by scout, Apr 9, 2011.

  1. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Found a great site to which members can join/or just try to balance the national budget. If we can't come back to Patsfans.com with a balanced budget, then lets not complain about our politicians who have far more barriers and special interests then we have. There are forums, resources, balance sheets, etc. on this site. Quite honestly, I think we will see a number of people cutting programs/raising taxes which they were originally opposed.

    Balance the Budget

    It's not that easy, but I know there are some fairly smart individuals in here who will have some fun with this.
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nice site, but there is difficulty as the names are not familiar..

    Some of the options are not available, i.e. take away the Bush tax cuts etc.
  3. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I don't know what the $$ would be, but I would also make these cuts and moves:
    Eliminate the war on drugs
    Eliminate Homeland Security
    Reduce the number of people in prisons for non-violent crimes
    Leave Education up to each state
    Get out of the Mail business
    Cut National Defense:
    -reduce our presence in Germany, Japan, Iran, and Afghanistan.
    Our defense is 46.5% of the world's distribution, China is second with 6.6% (gee, I wonder how they have become so productive). Cold war is over boys, time to get real.
    Social Security: Increase the age limit. Tax exempt groups. Tax corporations.
    Put the tax rate for the rich back to where it was prior to the Bush tax cuts. The middle class is what drives the economy, not the trickle down theory. Common sense indicates that a multiplier effect is more dramatic when it is used by people who are in need versus people that do not have to spend. The multiplier effect is the engine for the economy.
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Do not disagree with most of the above, but you will find a lot of issues with the Post Office as it is constitutionally mandated...

    You also need to look at how we subsidize agriculture and our multinational tax systems.. i.e. why GE, EXXON and many of the others who paid not taxes this year..
  5. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    PolitiFact | Bernie Sanders says ExxonMobil paid no taxes in 2009, but that's inaccurate

  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting site, it will be fun to play around there.

    The model has many limitations it is an adding machine. The economy is a non linear chaotic system.


    As far as I can see it makes no allowances for The effect of interest changes on the $$$ servicing the national debt. The effect of changing tax rates on economic behavior. The effect of changes in growth/contraction of the GDP. All these things have a big impact on the deficit and debt.

    Also it becomes hard to balance the budget in 1 year given the rapid expansion of spending combined with the negative/slow economic growth.
  8. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    I was hoping that we could come to some type of conclusion of how to balance the budget. My belief is that you help the middle class. I do not believe in the trickle down theory. The multiplier effect is the engine. Why give tax breaks to the wealthy and they have the option whether to use the income from those breaks. OTH, the middle class NEEDS to pay bills and purchase goods and services. Those goods are not luxury items, thus, the multiplier effect is used as its name implies.
    I do not believe in any price ceilings, floors, tariffs, and limited subsidies. The farm subsidies are a joke. From the word "go", we will pay you for not planting. Minimum wage hurts the people it is supposed to help. Tariffs only hurt free trade.
    The war on poverty has failed. It was enacted during the Johnson administration. How's that working out? Corporate welfare needs to be done away with. GE's profit was 14 billion? They had roughly 23,000 pages for an IRS filing, and no, they did not pay taxes.
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It depends on who will make best use of the resources of the society, distributed individuals making decisions (ie the market) or central planners confiscating resources from others they did not create and using them as they see fit.

    This doesn't work, never has worked and can never work. No one can predict where the next great idea will come from.

    Growing the economy will control the GROWTH of resources. The problem is that some see a limited pie and are focused on how the pie will be divided. Others understand that the pie is not static by can and will grow if the resources are left with those who know who to grow the resources.

    This is what VonMises, and Hayek understood that Marx and Engels did not.
  10. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Make the best use of the resources? Today, people need money to put food on the table, buy medicine, and pay for their mortgage. When they do that, it multiplier effect is at its greatest value. That, versus a "central planner" using the money as they see fit? This is about middle class having the tax break to pay for necessities versus the wealthy having a tax break to decide what they might do with it.
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So the best use of resources is to make it profitable for the private to create/expand profitable enterprises. This requires more workers, which attacks the 20% under/un employed giving them more $$ than the crumbs from the government, it has the added benefit of reducing the government assistance
    programs.

    Also when the economy reaches full employment supply and demand enters the equation and drives up wages. Now with so many unemployed there is no pressure to increase wages.
  12. scout

    scout Rookie

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    #15 Jersey

    Let's try another angle. I want to see if we can get close to a consensus. First cut is National Defense, which is 46.5% of the world's distribution. National Defense is $707 Billion and is 20% of our budget (does not include war expenses).
    What % will we cut on defense?
    Here is a link of National Defense appropriations, but feel free to google on your own.

    Military budget of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  13. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Eliminate the war on drugs - Yup
    Reduce the number of people in prisons for non-violent crimes - See above
    Leave Education up to each state - Mmmhmm
    Get out of the Mail business - At least stop subsidizing it

    Cut National Defense:
    -reduce our presence in Germany, Japan, Iran, and Afghanistan.
    (or ask those who we protect to share the load)

    Social Security: Increase the age limit. Tax exempt groups. Tax corporations.
    ?? Corporations already pay half of FICA for each employee. I would add: raise the wage limit for SS taxes. Means-testing for benefits.

    I would also add: eliminate Foreign Aid, Farm Subsidies, any and all Corporate Welfare.
  14. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    One comment re education -- leaving more to each state is fine with me, and I'm completely in favor of reducing the size and reach of the department of education (I won't claim to know how much, because I don't know exactly what it does and what each function costs)

    But there is a role for the federal goernment in education, as education is, imo, the single most important asset available to us (or, in theory, to most if not all nations)

    Education is a matter of critical importance to the nation, so the federal government should have a role in setting certain minimum standards.

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