Baker and E. Jackson wavied...Rashad Moore signed

[sebman2112]

I'm just wondering, how does one get "wavied"?

 

[TruthSeeker]

I am in the minority on this forum who believed that the Patriots had a
lousy draft in 2007.

You can say that again:

- Welker
- Moss
- likely top 5 2008 pick
- pick near the top of the 3rd round in 2008

plus, of course, a few players. You are indeed in the minority.

 

[lapatsfan]

So with one open roster slot and cold weather here, I am guessing they are saving a spot for a running back. Hmmmmm, Corey Dillon perhaps???

 

[RayClay]

I'm thinking the other spot has to be Santonio, no?

Unless, as others pointed out, Watson or Brady injuries are worse than anticipated, could be a TE...

(Man, I really wish they had PUP'd Dave Thomas ...)

I know it's obvious, but could you put Kyle before Brady please?

I'm old and i worry about the shock to my heart when I see "Brady injury worse than anticipated"

 

[Deus Irae]

Why not simply just trade all our draft choices for those players who can contribute this year?

Kareem Brown was a 4th round draft choice. It was HOPED that he would contribute next year or the year after. Most here acknowledged at the beginning of the year, that he would likely be inactive all year. If he is indeed no big loss, then the team amde a terrible draft choice (one of many) and are cutting losses. Now, we can draft another backup NT in the 3rd or 4th round.

Cutting a future backup so that Troy Brown can be inactive instead is the choice that Belichick made. The cost is a 4th rounder. And surely, we knew that others would snap up a future prospect when the cost was zilch, sort of like getting an extra pick.

What's it like knowing that you're a better talent evaluator than Belioli and would have made the 'right' pick with every single draft choice so that every single pick would have made it on what might well be the greatest team in NFL history? It's absolutely shocking that 2 7th round picks, 4 6th, a 5th and a 4th round pick couldn't all stick on the deepest team in the NFL, and I think you're just the one to solve this crisis. And, while telling us all that, maybe you could also explain how the team could trade the 4 compensatory picks it used in the draft, as well. Also, could you tell us all the teams that made better use of their draft picks than New England did in the last draft?


For the record, this last draft netted the team a safety prospect, a probable top 10 and possible top 5 first round 2008 draft pick, a top end 3rd round 2008 draft pick, the best slot receiver in the NFL, and the best wide receiver in the NFL with the team's 1st through 3rd round picks, while also netting a linebacker for possible future development in the 7th round. And, all this was done in a year where the draft was considered a weak one.

 

[Jimke]

What's it like knowing that you're a better talent evaluator than Belioli and would have made the 'right' pick with every single draft choice so that every single pick would have made it on what might well be the greatest team in NFL history? It's absolutely shocking that 2 7th round picks, 4 6th, a 5th and a 4th round pick couldn't all stick on the deepest team in the NFL, and I think you're just the one to solve this crisis. And, while telling us all that, maybe you could also explain how the team could trade the 4 compensatory picks it used in the draft, as well. Also, could you tell us all the teams that made better use of their draft picks than New England did in the last draft?


For the record, this last draft netted the team a safety prospect, a probable top 10 and possible top 5 first round 2008 draft pick, a top end 3rd round 2008 draft pick, the best slot receiver in the NFL, and the best wide receiver in the NFL with the team's 1st through 3rd round picks, while also netting a linebacker for possible future development in the 7th round. And, all this was done in a year where the draft was considered a weak one.

Who made better use of their draft picks than New England? How about
the Indianapolis Colts? Until one of their draft picks went on IR, all nine
picks made the team plus an undrafted free agent starts at defensive tackle.
My concern is the Pats could lose Gaffney, Moss, Stallworth, Washington,
Gay, Samuels, and Wilson to free agency plus Seau and Bruschi to
retirement. Of nine draft picks, only Meriweather, Richardson, and Lua
remain to compete for these spots. If the latter two had not gone on
IR, they would have also been cut.
The Pats did a superb job improving their team for 2007 but it was mostly
a one year deal. In 2008, they have to pay the piper. How many 2007
draft choices are available to step in and fill the voids?

 

[DaBruinz]

I agree. Few would doubt that Belichick is violating the rules yet again by ahve agreements with non-roster players. Me. I do indeed doubt it.

I would have added Moore last week. I am somewhat surprised that we have no backups at corner.

The Pats have back-ups at Corner. Behind Hobbs and Samuel they have, in no particular order:

Gay, Wilson, T. Brown, Meriweather.

This is some of the best depth they've had there since 2003.

 

[DaBruinz]

Shouldn't have cut Kareem Brown. Could have cut either one of these guys then.

How would an extra DE help the Pats? DE isn't an area of concern. TE is. CB is to some.

 

[Deus Irae]

Who made better use of their draft picks than New England? How about
the Indianapolis Colts? Until one of their draft picks went on IR, all nine
picks made the team plus an undrafted free agent starts at defensive tackle.
My concern is the Pats could lose Gaffney, Moss, Stallworth, Washington,
Gay, Samuels, and Wilson to free agency plus Seau and Bruschi to
retirement. Of nine draft picks, only Meriweather, Richardson, and Lua
remain to compete for these spots. If the latter two had not gone on
IR, they would have also been cut.
The Pats did a superb job improving their team for 2007 but it was mostly
a one year deal. In 2008, they have to pay the piper. How many 2007
draft choices are available to step in and fill the voids?

No team in the league even came close to doing as well as New England did with this past year's draft picks. That includes the Colts. As for the Patriots draft picks that you're talking about being cut, and as I pointed out in a different thread a while back, 18 of the 19 draft picks made by New England in the past 2 seasons are either on an NFL roster or an NFL practice squad. What people like you ignore is the reality of the roster:

QB: Brady, Cassel, Gutierrez (an undrafted free agent)
RB: Maroney, Morris, Faulk, Evans, Eckel
TE: Watson, Brady, Thomas
WR: Moss, Stallworth, Welker, Jackson, Gaffney, Brown, Washington
OL: Light, Mankins, Koppen, Neal, Kaczur, Hochstein, O'Callaghan, Britt

That's the offense. Now, other than finding lightning in a bottle, or replacing Eckel as the #5 running back or Britt as the 8th offensive lineman, which player listed above was supposed to get beaten out by a fourth round (or later) draft pick?


DL: Warren, Wilfork, Seymour, Green, Wright, Smith
LB: Vrabel, Alexander, Bruschi, Thomas, Seau, Woods, Izzo
DB: Samuel, Gay, Hobbs, Meriweather, Sanders, Wilson, Harrison

So, where were all the chumps just waiting to be beaten out? Toss in players like Mitchell, who are special teams guys, and you'll find that the number of positions that were likely to be in competition was very small.

The notion that these 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round picks should have been making this particular team is simply absurd. The irony of such thinking is that those 4th-7th round picks were competing against players who were earlier 4th-7th round picks or Patriots free agent finds (LeKevin Smith, Eric Alexander for two examples). Thus, the argument essentially becomes "This draft sucked because this year's 4th-7th round picks weren't as talented as previously 4th-7th round picks" even though it's clear that Belichick thought that even before the draft.

 

[DaBruinz]

From the very start of the season the Pats let it be known from
their free agent moves and trades that they were playing to win the
Super Bowl this year. Getting players who could contribute this year and
worry about the future later. The future may be the 2008 draft. There
are going to be a significant amount of job vacancies next year. I don't
believe that all the vacancies can be filled from free agency and remain
under the cap.
I am in the minority on this forum who believed that the Patriots had a
lousy draft in 2007. I also think that they were not willing to spend the
time to develop raw talent like Kareem Brown and Justin Rodgers. This
is why a player like Chad Brown made the initial 53 man roster.

How was the 2007 draft lousy? The Pats had very VERY few open positions on this team (5 or 6 max) and it was going to take an extraordinary effort for a rookie (outside of the 1st round) to make it. Oscar Lua and Mike Richardson had DONE that, but both ended up injured. Justin Rogers, the Pats tried to sneak onto the practice squad, but the Cowboys claimed him from Waivers.

Also, you have to consider that the Pats added a 1st round pick for 2008 (looking to be a top 10, possibly a top 5 pick) and a top 10 3rd round pick as well. Not to mention the additions of Randy Moss and We Welker.

Also, please consider that the 2007 draft was considered to be a very weak draft, overall.

 

[DaBruinz]

Who made better use of their draft picks than New England? How about
the Indianapolis Colts? Until one of their draft picks went on IR, all nine
picks made the team plus an undrafted free agent starts at defensive tackle.

Jimke - This is a flawed argument. 1st, the Colts lost a TON of players in free agency and added no one. So they had MORE spots open to begin with. The Colts HAD to rely on the draft and UDFA to replenish their team. The Pats didn't NEED to draft anyone. They could have gone into training camp with the roster they had.

Also, if you look at the Colts, they've had a ton of injuries. Their depth is being tested tremendously. They should have lost the Jags game and the Raiders game. It was only dumb luck that they didn't.

My concern is the Pats could lose Gaffney, Moss, Stallworth, Washington,
Gay, Samuels, and Wilson to free agency plus Seau and Bruschi to
retirement. Of nine draft picks, only Meriweather, Richardson, and Lua
remain to compete for these spots. If the latter two had not gone on
IR, they would have also been cut.

No, the Pats can't loose Stallworth and Washington because its a team option, to my knowledge, not a player option.

For WR going into next season, the Pats have Welker, Stallworth, Jackosn, and Washington. I believe there is a strong possiblity that Moss will be re-signed. But that can't happen until after the end of the season due to league rules.

The Pats, more than likely, will be able to re-sign Gay for relatively easily should he chose to come back.

The only players you mentioned who will probably be gone are Samuel (NO S on the end) and Wilson. Though Wilson could ALSO be brough back.

Also, you do NOT know that Richardson and Lua would have been cut if they hadn't gone onto the IR. To assume so means you are clairvoyant and can see possible futures. And, unless you are the Miss Cleo re-incarnate, you're full of sh!t.

And, a news flash, teams, at times, have to rebuild. You will give yourself an ulcer if you worry too much about it.

The Pats did a superb job improving their team for 2007 but it was mostly
a one year deal. In 2008, they have to pay the piper. How many 2007
draft choices are available to step in and fill the voids?

 

[Deus Irae]

How many 2007
draft choices are available to step in and fill the voids?

I wanted to focus on this aspect of your post separately. So, let's go position by position:

QB: There is absolutely no need for a quarterback right now.

RB: Maroney is 22. While a young prospect might be nice, it's not needed. Morris is 30 and Faulk is 31, but both are backup/specialty backs who should be productive for a few more years

TE: Watson and Thomas are still NFL puppies.

OL: This is not an old line. Light is the oldest starter on the line, and he's 29. Hochstein is the oldest player on the line, and he's 30.

WR: Moss is still going strong at 30, Welker is 26, Stallworth is 27, Gaffney is 26 and Jackson is a puppy. Only Brown is staring at retirement.


So, regarding the age question, where exactly is age a problem, or even an issue, on the offense?

Now, on to defense:

DL: Seymour, Wilfork, Warren, Green, Smith, Wright.... Clearly no age problem here

DB: Hobbs, Gay, Samuel, Meriweather, Sanders... all young guys. The issue here isn't youth, except for Harrison, it's keeping Samuel or replacing him. Revis was not an option in last season's draft.

LB: Now, here you would have an argument.....EXCEPT... BB has clearly shown a preference for veterans. Furthermore, Colvin and Thomas are both just 30, with years still left to play and Vrabel is playing at a Pro Bowl level at age 32.

The team does need a punter, but the problem there wasn't a draft issue.

 

[Jimke]

Jimke - This is a flawed argument. 1st, the Colts lost a TON of players in free agency and added no one. So they had MORE spots open to begin with. The Colts HAD to rely on the draft and UDFA to replenish their team. The Pats didn't NEED to draft anyone. They could have gone into training camp with the roster they had.

Also, if you look at the Colts, they've had a ton of injuries. Their depth is being tested tremendously. They should have lost the Jags game and the Raiders game. It was only dumb luck that they didn't.




No, the Pats can't loose Stallworth and Washington because its a team option, to my knowledge, not a player option.

For WR going into next season, the Pats have Welker, Stallworth, Jackosn, and Washington. I believe there is a strong possiblity that Moss will be re-signed. But that can't happen until after the end of the season due to league rules.

The Pats, more than likely, will be able to re-sign Gay for relatively easily should he chose to come back.

The only players you mentioned who will probably be gone are Samuel (NO S on the end) and Wilson. Though Wilson could ALSO be brough back.

Also, you do NOT know that Richardson and Lua would have been cut if they hadn't gone onto the IR. To assume so means you are clairvoyant and can see possible futures. And, unless you are the Miss Cleo re-incarnate, you're full of sh!t.

And, a news flash, teams, at times, have to rebuild. You will give yourself an ulcer if you worry too much about it.

I would be surprised if the Pats retain Stallworth and Washington because
of the bonus money which is due. I suspect they will try to use this money
to entice Moss and maybe Gaffney to re-sign.
I agree with your last paragraph. The Pats obviously need to rebuild at
cornerback and linebacker. The question is how much they rely on the
draft to accomplish this. I wonder how much the 4 year maximum contract after the first round affects the Pats' thinking in this regard.

 

[patsgo]

I would be surprised if the Pats retain Stallworth and Washington because
of the bonus money which is due. I suspect they will try to use this money
to entice Moss and maybe Gaffney to re-sign.
I agree with your last paragraph. The Pats obviously need to rebuild at
cornerback and linebacker. The question is how much they rely on the
draft to accomplish this. I wonder how much the 4 year maximum contract after the first round affects the Pats' thinking in this regard.

THE COACH IS SET THE QB, THE LINES, THE REST YOU REBUILD IN THE OFF SEASON , THIS IS THE NFL, THE COLTS DID THE SAME THING THIS YEAR AND THEY ARE STILL HUMMING ALONG, LETS WORRY ABOUT NEXT YEAR IN MARCH, ENJOY THE RUN