Bad game for Logan Mankins

[reflexblue]

I told 2 guys I was watching the game with last night at half time that Logan Mankins will probably "Re-think" his situation after watching Connelly pancake two guys on a trap and sweep, and pass protect TB quite nicely. Ole Logan probably had a bad night last night watching that. That is my guess.

Mankins Agent will make sure this reflection doesn't last long.

 

[JoeShmoe]

Connolly is way more athletic than I thought. When he's pulling and getting beyond the LOS, he's a pretty devastating blocker. Looks like he could play fullback.

But like another poster pointed out, how will he do against a monster NT? Can he move a big body that's right in front of him?

Another guy who looks pretty mean is Crumper. He annihilated a LB on a similar play where he pulled and went through an interior hole. He looks like like at least as good a run blocker as Daniel Graham was, maybe better.

I think we just get used to the idea that Mankins isn't coming back. The words he has used against the FO, he'd have to publicly eat a world of crow and I don't think he does that. He sits out the season and then we get some sort of compensation for him

Albeit in a bad situation not of his doing, he's being an idiot TBH, led by his agent, and you would hope his 'friends' on the team like Neal, Light, Brady etc are pointing this out

 

[lostjumper]

Two consecutive weeks the announcers have shown replays, with telestrators, of Dan Connelly making great blocks, multiple times. He has gotten more good pub, during the games, than any of our lineman to date.

I've noticed this as well. While I've noticed the mistakes/penalties that neal has been making, the other OG has played very well. His pulling seems to be a strength since he's pretty quick for a 300 pounder. He gets to the 2nd level well ahead of the RB has destroyed a couple of linebackers.

 

[37Harrison]

I just don't see how Mankins may be "re-thinking" his choice due to the play of Connolly or anyone for that matter. Mankins is what he is and that's and elite guard, one of the best in the league. No matter how well someone else plays Mankins is still probably better than them.

He feels that he is owed a certain amount of money for his play and deservedly so. Do I think he is being unreasonable? Yup, but that isn't for me or anyone else other than Mankins to decide. I really don't think it is even about the money anymore as he feels that Kraft and the Pats org lied to him and I don't think this relationship is reconcilable at this point.

I am optimistic that he will "come to his senses" and go back to the negotiating table, swallow his pride, and apologize to Kraft for making his thoughts public. The Pats O-line is markedly better with him in it.

 

[Sicilian]

I just don't see how Mankins may be "re-thinking" his choice due to the play of Connolly or anyone for that matter. Mankins is what he is and that's and elite guard, one of the best in the league. No matter how well someone else plays Mankins is still probably better than them.

He feels that he is owed a certain amount of money for his play and deservedly so. Do I think he is being unreasonable? Yup, but that isn't for me or anyone else other than Mankins to decide. I really don't think it is even about the money anymore as he feels that Kraft and the Pats org lied to him and I don't think this relationship is reconcilable at this point.

I am optimistic that he will "come to his senses" and go back to the negotiating table, swallow his pride, and apologize to Kraft for making his thoughts public. The Pats O-line is markedly better with him in it.

I agree with pretty much everything you said.

To me, I have no problem going through this whole season with Connelly at LG. He seems to be solid and the rest of the line is good enough for him to be the "weakest" link.

To me the problem is, if Neal goes down (which is not unexpected), I haven't seen anything out of the backups to make me feel comfortable. If Mankins were playing LG, Connelly would still have a role as a superb backup to both G positions, AND as a goalline fullback. The overall strength AND depth of this line is better with Mankins.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I just don't see how Mankins may be "re-thinking" his choice due to the play of Connolly or anyone for that matter. Mankins is what he is and that's and elite guard, one of the best in the league. No matter how well someone else plays Mankins is still probably better than them.

He feels that he is owed a certain amount of money for his play and deservedly so. Do I think he is being unreasonable? Yup, but that isn't for me or anyone else other than Mankins to decide. I really don't think it is even about the money anymore as he feels that Kraft and the Pats org lied to him and I don't think this relationship is reconcilable at this point. :ugh:

I am optimistic that he will "come to his senses" and go back to the negotiating table, swallow his pride, and apologize to Kraft for making his thoughts public. The Pats O-line is markedly better with him in it.

What Mankins risks becoming is something that is the kiss of death in this league, irrelevant, out of sight and out of mind. Revis is in the same boat albeit to a lesser extent because of his position and profile and age. If there is a lockout, Mankins could face a prove it situation come 2012 and no big long term deal (at least that he could hope to see the lions share of) thereafter.

And that bolded rationale is beyond contradictory...

 

[Richard Camembert]

I loved the first-string o-line and their work. I was not impressed with the second stringers. I know Larsen is wayyy down the depth chart but he in particular was getting used on a lot of plays, and Hoyer had a lot of pressure on him up the middle during those times. Ohrnberger didn't impress me much, LeVoir looked okay, Wendell was adequate, but I saw a lot of red guys running through the middle on the second string and they seemed to come from where Larsen was.

The bigger picture is about depth. The Pats have an answer to Mankins' absence: Connolly. But we're down two OL already and we had to mix in the depth guy, Connolly, too, so there's little wriggle room if we get another owie somewhere, and some of these older OL are getting near the end. Who's the new depth guy going to be, Ohrnberger? LeVoir? Wendell? I just haven't seen much from those guys yet. Maybe Kazcur comes back during the year, I dunno.

Anyways, if I'm Mankins, I'm feeling neutral about the game, because Connolly is emerging, but the depth issues seem to be getting exposed. And, disgusting though it may be, I might be rooting for another injury, because I think the Pats are in trouble if that happens, and that could give him a little more leverage. (And I know, the Pats won't cave in to that, blah blah blah, I'm just staying on topic here).

 

[Gwedd]

Wewere talking about them, and praising them, for the entire game. The drive and force in which they controlled the LOS was absolutely amazing.

They definitely looked like an O line that was on a life or death mission....Amazing performance.

Yup.... playing like guys who wanted, and intended, to keep their jobs.

 

[Deus Irae]

Connolly was wildly inconsistent last night, just as he was last week. The "backups" were brutal last night, just as they were last week.

I don't see how that's supposed to be bad for Mankins.

 

[RayClay]

I loved the first-string o-line and their work. I was not impressed with the second stringers. I know Larsen is wayyy down the depth chart but he in particular was getting used on a lot of plays, and Hoyer had a lot of pressure on him up the middle during those times. Ohrnberger didn't impress me much, LeVoir looked okay, Wendell was adequate, but I saw a lot of red guys running through the middle on the second string and they seemed to come from where Larsen was.

The bigger picture is about depth. The Pats have an answer to Mankins' absence: Connolly. But we're down two OL already and we had to mix in the depth guy, Connolly, too, so there's little wriggle room if we get another owie somewhere, and some of these older OL are getting near the end. Who's the new depth guy going to be, Ohrnberger? LeVoir? Wendell? I just haven't seen much from those guys yet. Maybe Kazcur comes back during the year, I dunno.

Anyways, if I'm Mankins, I'm feeling neutral about the game, because Connolly is emerging, but the depth issues seem to be getting exposed. And, disgusting though it may be, I might be rooting for another injury, because I think the Pats are in trouble if that happens, and that could give him a little more leverage. (And I know, the Pats won't cave in to that, blah blah blah, I'm just staying on topic here).

How many C/Gs can make the team? What type of depth to teams usually carry at those positions? Do other teams have more depth than our two draft picks, a 3-4 year NFL starter and another player with experience on our team and PS for over two years?

That doesn't include rookies.

It also doesn't include all the guards that will come to be available every week from now on.

 

[Sicilian]

Connolly was wildly inconsistent last night, just as he was last week. The "backups" were brutal last night, just as they were last week.

I don't see how that's supposed to be bad for Mankins.

I think wildly inconsistent is a bit much. He's not Mankins, but he played well. The running game was effective (including some nice blocks by Connelly), and the only time Brady was hit came from the right side of the line.

 

[JackBauer]

I think wildly inconsistent is a bit much. He's not Mankins, but he played well. The running game was effective (including some nice blocks by Connelly), and the only time Brady was hit came from the right side of the line.

Agreed. "Wildly inconsistent" is not how I would describe Connolly's play last night. I'd use that for Vollmer. I also didn't think Ohrnberger was "brutal," considering he's a backup. Didn't get a great look at Wendell, and Larsen is clearly PS fodder.

I will say that, unless he regresses, Connolly's level of play relative to his contract is a much better value than Mankins' level of play relative to what the Patriots would need to shell out in order to keep him.

 

[reflexblue]

Connolly was wildly inconsistent last night, just as he was last week.

I don't see how that's supposed to be bad for Mankins.

Felger is that you?

 

[Metaphors]

To me the problem is, if Neal goes down (which is not unexpected), I haven't seen anything out of the backups to make me feel comfortable. If Mankins were playing LG, Connelly would still have a role as a superb backup to both G positions, AND as a goalline fullback. The overall strength AND depth of this line is better with Mankins.

Spot on and that is the last chip Mankins has to play. The starters should get a full half of duty next week and almost none the week after. It makes no sense for Mankins to fold now since a whole bunch of bad stuff could happen next week.

However, it makes little sense for him to hold out after next week's game. Ohrnberger ran with the 1's last night which is saying something considering TFB was dropping back to pass. Connolly played a fine game and Ohrnberger held up as well. That strengthens the Pats' hand as week #1 approaches.

Once the regular season starts, Belichick is likely to get used to his depth chart and be reluctant to disrupt any success. If the line isn't doing well in certain aspects, Belichick will gameplan around it to the degree that he can.

Seeing injury or failure in the preseason is one thing. That might make Belichick more flexible in dealiing with Mankins. Seeing injury or failure in the regular season (possibly sinking what should be a very promising season) is a whole nuther matter. Mankins would probably be the last person Belichick would want to see on the sidelines next to him. That would leave Mankins with no negotiating power. He would have to sign the lower tender and report or sit out the season. No non-franchise promise. No trying to work a deal to trade to a favorable (financial and lifestyle) spot for him. If you think Belichick would let Mankins sit out regular season games and then let him walk free for a big contract elsewhere...well that just isn't gonna happen.

So Mankins still has leverage. That disappears a week from today if the line stays intact and healthy. After that, his holdout takes a decidedly downward turn for him.

 

[Deus Irae]

I think wildly inconsistent is a bit much. He's not Mankins, but he played well. The running game was effective (including some nice blocks by Connelly), and the only time Brady was hit came from the right side of the line.

Agreed. "Wildly inconsistent" is not how I would describe Connolly's play last night. I'd use that for Vollmer. I also didn't think Ohrnberger was "brutal," considering he's a backup. Didn't get a great look at Wendell, and Larsen is clearly PS fodder.

I will say that, unless he regresses, Connolly's level of play relative to his contract is a much better value than Mankins' level of play relative to what the Patriots would need to shell out in order to keep him.

Felger is that you?

When it looks to me as if a player is quitting on plays and getting driven off, forcing his linemate to complete the block for him, I consider that to be a very bad job. When it looks to me as if a player is making solid pull blocks, I consider that a good job. When it looks to me as if the same player is doing all those things, I consider that to be wildly inconsistent.

Naturally, you are all welcome to disagree with that assessment.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Mankins is has put himself in a position where the team has no choice but to make an example of him. Not that they want to, but what else can they do?

I think it's great. Exactly what the pats should do. Can it really be that only a handful of guys in the country are good enough to play guard?

 

[JackBauer]

When it looks to me as if a player is quitting on plays and getting driven off, forcing his linemate to complete the block for him, I consider that to be a very bad job. When it looks to me as if a player is making solid pull blocks, I consider that a good job. When it looks to me as if the same player is doing all those things, I consider that to be wildly inconsistent.

Naturally, you are all welcome to disagree with that assessment.

Well it'd be interesting to know on which plays you observed such happenings, as I don't seem to recall witnessing them.

Though I didn't have Connolly tunnel vision either, so I might have missed it.

 

[captain stone]

Connolly was wildly inconsistent last night, just as he was last week. The "backups" were brutal last night, just as they were last week.

I don't see how that's supposed to be bad for Mankins.

I don't either. Our OL depth w/o Mankin$ & OxyKaczur sux, and if Koppen and/or Neal get hurt, then we (& Brady) are screwed.

My prediction: Mankin$ is traded to KC or Denver (or an NFC team) for a 2nd-rounder.

P.S.: did Eric Ghiaciuc play last night, and if he did, how did he look?

 

[Sicilian]

Well it'd be interesting to know on which plays you observed such happenings, as I don't seem to recall witnessing them.

Though I didn't have Connolly tunnel vision either, so I might have missed it.

I second this, but I'll add that I have no way to go back and view the game again and confirm anything, so the argument may be pointless. Either way, if there were times when Connelly had to be picked up by Koppen or Light, I think that's to be expected on any offensive line. That's why they tend to work better when the same five guys stay together for a long period of time, they get to know tendencies and develop chemistry together. I'm positive those kinds of things happened with Mankins too, so I don't think them happening to Connelly makes him "wildly" inconsistent. I doubt the ratio of good to bad plays was 50/50, yet Brady never felt any heat.

 

[JackBauer]

I don't either. Our OL depth w/o Mankin$ & OxyKaczur sux, and if Koppen and/or Neal get hurt, then we (& Brady) are screwed.

My prediction: Mankin$ is traded to KC or Denver (or an NFC team) for a 2nd-rounder.

That would...err...certainly help our depth on the OL.