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Bad Drafting=Mediocre Results


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Hindsight is 20/20. But, we were poised to strike it rich in that draft and didn't. I just think the incomplete team we have today can be traced to that draft. We had 3 picks in the top 33, our own 2nd, an early third and our own. What the hck do we have to show for it?
Baloney!

There have been plenty on posters on draft day within the Patriots Draft Talk section of this message board that voiced their displeasure with certain draft selections on the spot. The two most recent WTF draft picks:

2011, #33 overall - Glass-IR Dowling
2012, #48 overall - Tavon Wilson
 
I can't really find fault in any of BB's first round picks, even those that were less successful. That's no accident. Belichick plays it safe in round 1, and he takes his shots in round 2. If we take a look at the BB era 1st rounders, Easley is the first question, in terms of need + health, pick they've made, and he's a gamble only for his ACLs, and not all for his position or perceived ability. Maroney's the one closest to a bust, and even he worked out fine for his first 2 seasons.

Besides the Brady pick (and not counting the Lombardis, naturally), BBs greatest achievement as a GM may just be his record with first round picks.

Where does the blame lie for the complete inability to develop WRs (outside of Edelman)? You read and hear a lot of things about all of the reasons WRs that come through NE were not able to make it work, but the difficulty we have in putting quality receivers on the field is strange. It's just odd that we could make only one quality WR draft pick in 12 years. Crazy.
 
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Where does the blame lie for the complete inability to develop WRs (out side of Edelman)? You read and hear a lot of things about all of the reasons WRs that come through NE were not able to make it work, but the difficulty we have in putting quality receivers on the field is strange. It's just odd that we could make only one quality WR draft pick in 12 years. Crazy.


My post was about first round picks, and only about first round picks. The Patriots have not drafted WR in the first round during Belichick's tenure. Perhaps you could ask your question of someone who's focused on that particular topic.
 
My post was about first round picks, and only about first round picks. The Patriots have not drafted WR in the first round during Belichick's tenure. Perhaps you could ask your question of someone who's focused on that particular topic.

It's the most perplexing topic, relative to the draft, if you're a Patriots fan. The complete inability to develop that position is astonishing. An interesting research endeavor would be to see if any other team in the NFL has been that inept at developing the WR position over the last 12 years. One drafted quality starter in 12 years...astonishing.
 
It's the most perplexing topic, relative to the draft, if you're a Patriots fan. The complete inability to develop that position is astonishing. An interesting research endeavor would be to see if any other team in the NFL has been that inept at developing the WR position over the last 12 years. One drafted quality starter in 12 years...astonishing.

Player development is related to the draft. it is not, however, the topic I addressed. Again, perhaps you could find someone who's been discussing that in this thread.
 
Player development is related to the draft. it is not, however, the topic I addressed. Again, perhaps you could find someone who's been discussing that in this thread.

With regards to your specific topic, it's hard not to fault the pick of Maroney. Disregarding his effectiveness, the position of RB is not worthy of a first round pick. The position doesn't hold the value. Still not as interesting as completely whiffing for 12 years at WR.
 
With regards to your specific topic, it's hard not to fault the pick of Maroney. Disregarding his effectiveness, the position of RB is not worthy of a first round pick. The position doesn't hold the value. Still not as interesting as completely whiffing for 12 years at WR.

Here, you at least addressed my initial post. Your response is silly, since it ignores both the needs of the Patriots and the realities of the 2006 draft, but at least it's on point. And I'm still not going to discuss the WRs with you, so you can go troll someone else.
 
Here, you at least addressed my initial post. Your response is silly, since it ignores both the needs of the Patriots and the realities of the 2006 draft, but at least it's on point. And I'm still not going to discuss the WRs with you, so you can go troll someone else.

The needs of the Patriots don't make a 1st round RB a good pick. RB in the 1st round is a waste regardless of need.
 
With regards to your specific topic, it's hard not to fault the pick of Maroney. Disregarding his effectiveness, the position of RB is not worthy of a first round pick. The position doesn't hold the value. Still not as interesting as completely whiffing for 12 years at WR.
Since 2002

Branch
Givens
Slater (obviously worked out well)
Edelman

2002 was within 12 years. 4 as far as I can tell is not whiffing and you are a whiny c u n t
 
The needs of the Patriots don't make a 1st round RB a good pick. RB in the 1st round is a waste regardless of need.

And here you completely show your cluelessness. Well done. Only one long-term starting Rb was drafted outside of round 1 in 2006. One can certainly argue that the Patriots should have drafted MJD over Maroney. In the face of known history, only a fool would try to argue that they didn't need to go RB in round 1/trade up in round 2 if they were looking to get a starter.
 
here is a list of good/#1 WR's picked after the first round since 2000

Keenan Allen
Alshon Jeffery
T.Y. Hilton
Torrey Smith
Emmanuel Sanders
Eric Decker
Antonio Brown
Mike Wallace
Brian Hartline
Julian Edelman
Jordy Nelson
DeSean Jackson
Pierre Garcon
Steve Johnson
James Jones
Greg Jennings
Brandon Marshall
Marques Colston
Vincent Jackson
Jerricho Cotchery
Anquan Boldin
Brandon Lloyd
Deion Branch
Chad Johnson
Steve Smith
T.J. Houshmandzadeh
Laveranues Coles
Darrell Jackson

that's less then 30 in 14 years 3 of them by pitt and two by the pats 3 if you want to add givens in there so the pats have been just as good as any team in the NFL at finding starting WR's passed the first round
 
And here you completely show your cluelessness. Well done. Only one long-term starting Rb was drafted outside of round 1 in 2006. One can certainly argue that the Patriots should have drafted MJD over Maroney. In the face of known history, only a fool would try to argue that they didn't need to go RB in round 1/trade up in round 2 if they were looking to get a starter.

Best RB in league over the last few years - Adrian Peterson. Big deal.
How much did Tennessee accomplish with Chris Johnson in his prime?
MJD and Jacksonville. Huge results there.
Sure Marshawn Lynch has helped Seattle, but he did nothing for Buffalo's success.

Best offenses over last three years would probably be considered NE, Denver and New Orleans. Big time running backs on those teams.

Like I said, there is absolutely no reason to take a RB in round one. The value of the position doesn't justify it.
 
Since 2002

Branch
Givens
Slater (obviously worked out well)
Edelman

2002 was within 12 years. 4 as far as I can tell is not whiffing and you are a whiny c u n t


Yeah, Slater is a great WR. Edelman is the only WR drafted since Branch and Givens (12 drafts ago) to have any (receiving) impact on this team. You think that is perfectly fine. I don't.
 
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He traded up for Jones and Hightower. Could have traded up for JJ Watt and Cam Jordan. Or, stood pat and take Wilkerson after trading up for moving up a pick or two for Kerrigan. We needed a WR every bit as much as a rb going into 2011. Torrey Smith and Randall Cobb sitting their for us. 3 years later and they are still better than anyone we've picked in the 2011-2014 drafts. A little creativity and it could have been special.

I can give you yesterday's lottery numbers today and predict yesterday's weather with 100% accuracy. Doesn't mean I have more insights into these things than anyone else.

Obviously we can look back at every draft and find the best players that should have been selected higher up. Doesn't mean a team blew it by not drafting somebody. Players develop or fail for lots of different reasons.

But I don't think you would have felt that way after Watt's rookie season. It was good, but guys like Von Miller and Aldon Smith were battling for DROY and Watt was pretty overlooked. I doubt even Houston knew what he would end up becoming. Ditto Cam Jordan, who only had one sack in his rookie season and would have been booted out of town by half this board before given the chance to blossom.

And it's great to point at every 2nd-round WR we could have had, as if those teams are somehow brilliant and we're morons. Green Bay looks great for drafting Cobb in the 2nd so long as we overlook the fact they took Derek Sherrod over Cobb in the 1st. The Ravens took Jimmy Smith before Torrey Smith, and while Jimmy is finally coming into his own after 3 seasons, they got way more contributions from Torrey initially. The Bears drafted Shea McClellin ahead of Alshon Jeffery. Even when teams hit on players, they miss on others, sometimes even higher up.

Teams routinely miss on guys multiple times and then they get lucky late and then we say, wow, what a great draft because they found a guy in the 5th or 7th. Edelman is obviously going higher than the 7th round if the draft is done again, so does that mean we are good at finding diamonds in the rough, or stupid for letting him slip?

It seems the pattern is if we find someone late, we're stupid for letting him slip that late, a la Brady. But when other teams do it, they're great at drafting. The Seahawks found Richard Sherman in the 5th so they're great. They also selected James Carpenter, John Moffitt, K.J. Wright, and Kris Durham ahead of him, which is ummm...not so good.

The 49ers got NaVorro Bowman in the 3rd, which was good. Of course, they also spent their 2nd that year on Taylor Mays. The Packers took Brian Brohm in the 2nd ahead of Patrick Lee later in the 2nd, Jermichael Finley in the 3rd, Josh Sitton in the 4th, and Matt Flynn in the 7th. The Broncos drafted Rahim Moore, Orlando Franklin, Nate Irving, and Quintin Carter ahead of Julius Thomas.

And these are the GOOD teams.

This isn't to defend BB's record or to say we hit on more picks than anyone or anything of that nature. It's just to state the obvious that the draft can be a bit of a crapshoot, and even the best teams end up surprised at how things turn out. We are not the only team to miss a high pick or get an injury-riddled player or pick a player who ends up failing miserably. It happens to every single team in the league.

But to hold every draft class to such a ridiculously high standard is insane. I know you can do it in Franchise mode on Madden, but real life isn't the same, and no team has done it consistently. Everyone has good drafts and bad drafts. Everyone has hits and misses. It would be nice if people were more realistic about things. Then again, if that were they case, they wouldn't be trolling internet message boards with the same **** over and over and over again.
 
For those who blame the Pats inability to draft a quality WR, worth mentioning that our Free Agency attempts to bring talent in at the position has been pretty horrifying, too. Stallworth has been the best of the bunch. LaFell and Amendola are the latest (and not inexpensive) attempts. Neither one has been entirely satisfactory.

Michael Jenkins (Viking, 2013)
Donald Jones (Bills, 2013)
Brandon Lloyd (Rams, 2012)
Chad Ochocinco (Bengles 2011)
Joey Galloway (Bucks, 2009)
Donte Stallworth (Eagles, 2007)
Kelly Washington (Bengals, 2007)

Most of these guys were proven veteran WRs in the NFL. They all struggled to adjust to our scheme. Batting about 0.000%.

So, maybe it's not the drafting. Maybe there's something in the system that just makes it damn hard to identify new players who can to come in and contribute without spending a few years in the system first.
 
Yeah, Slater is a great WR. Edelman is the only WR drafted since Branch and Givens (12 drafts ago) to have any (receiving) impact on this team. You think that is perfectly fine. I don't.

Where did I say it was fine or where has anyone said that? You can strawman all you want. Yes, we get it they have not hit on many WRs but remember something. Its a complicated system. And that complicated system has kept them the most competitive and successful franchise in the NFL. Maybe even all sports over the last 12 years.

So, you know what. I would rather have a team with a complex system (that has trouble keeping WRs) that always wins than a team with an easier system that loses.
 
Best RB in league over the last few years - Adrian Peterson. Big deal.
How much did Tennessee accomplish with Chris Johnson in his prime?
MJD and Jacksonville. Huge results there.
Sure Marshawn Lynch has helped Seattle, but he did nothing for Buffalo's success.

Best offenses over last three years would probably be considered NE, Denver and New Orleans. Big time running backs on those teams.

Like I said, there is absolutely no reason to take a RB in round one. The value of the position doesn't justify it.


And, as I demonstrated, you're just wrong. Have a nice weekend.
 
For those who blame the Pats inability to draft a quality WR, worth mentioning that our Free Agency attempts to bring talent in at the position has been pretty horrifying, too. Stallworth has been the best of the bunch. LaFell and Amendola are the latest (and not inexpensive) attempts. Neither one has been entirely satisfactory.

Michael Jenkins (Viking, 2013)
Donald Jones (Bills, 2013)
Brandon Lloyd (Rams, 2012)
Chad Ochocinco (Bengles 2011)
Joey Galloway (Bucks, 2009)
Donte Stallworth (Eagles, 2007)
Kelly Washington (Bengals, 2007)

Most of these guys were proven veteran WRs in the NFL. They all struggled to adjust to our scheme. Batting about 0.000%.

So, maybe it's not the drafting. Maybe there's something in the system that just makes it damn hard to identify new players who can to come in and contribute without spending a few years in the system first.

Lloyd caught 74 passes, and was a far better FA signing than was Stallworth. The rest of that group were has beens and never weres who did nothing as WRs after leaving. Also, Chad Johnson was not a FA signing.

Welker
Moss
Gronk
Hernandez
Lloyd
Collie

They all grasped the offense in their first year, and Branch was able to pick it back up right away. Free agency isn't a 100% thing, and it's going to be even less when your idea of free agency is declining old players and stiffs, which has been the general approach taken by Belichick.
 
With regards to your specific topic, it's hard not to fault the pick of Maroney. Disregarding his effectiveness, the position of RB is not worthy of a first round pick. The position doesn't hold the value. Still not as interesting as completely whiffing for 12 years at WR.

BB has never busted a First Round pick on a WR. Or for that matter on a Punter or Placekicker either. His record is perfect, 0-0. He doesn't waste First round Cap space on RBs, He just doesn't waste CAP space on irrelevancies
 
Entering the parallel universe of the NFL Draft provides a chuckle, in the absence of some longitudinal study of all NFL teams we rely on anecdotal evidence that fits our argument... draft hindsight always is the proof some of us need. It's that rearview mirror thing..

Every team has their hits and every team has their misses, the Pats average draft pick since BB is #26... so the choices are not the same an many other teams, and despite this position we remain competitive... for a while we relied on "off the street" cornerbacks.. now that strategy has changed, as the game has changed.

While people criticize the Maroney pick... the other first round picks of the BB era are hard to argue with: Seymour, Graham, Warren, Wilfork, Watson, Mankins, Maroney, Meriweather, Mayo, McCourty, Solder, Jones, Hightower and Easly...

We are three games into this season and panic mode has set in, give it some time...

The "window" on Brady is closing, can be a harbinger of bad things coming for some, but for others it could be the advent of a new and different time for this team(planning).. and it seems as though BB is planning for that day.. it is not as though when Brady retires that this team will cease to exist.
 
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