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Backpeddling On Memos Demanded By ACLU

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Leave No Doubt, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Democracy Now! | Headlines for April 15, 2009

    American Civil Liberties Union : Full ICRC Report Further Underscores Extent Of Torture And Abuse By U.S. Officials

    Tortures under the Bush admin.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2009
  2. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There's just way too much here to post but it's a MUST READ,mind-blowing stuff. :eek: Here's the final,burning,and timely question though:
    Ray McGovern: W, the Torture Decider
     
  3. godef

    godef In the Starting Line-Up

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    So who's running this country anyhow, the CIA or the White House? It would be treasonous if they act inappropriately while in service to the country.
     
  4. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My guess is the CIA:eek: I'm more scared of them and our very own govt than I am of some terrorist. Or extremist.
     
  5. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So has the Red Cross observed this torture or are they taking the word of Al Queda prisioners at face value?

    We do know that the soldiers who mistreated prisioner at AbuGharib were sent to jail.

    We also know that prisioners were taught to lie about their treatment for PR purposes.

    We also have an incident where 2 GITMO prisioners claimed worse treatment since Obama was elected, Are we to take THIS calim at face value?????
     
  6. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    :eek: Oh my what HORROR!

    Gimme a break.
     
  7. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    There is no justification for not revealing everything. There are no state secrets, and neither the tactics nor the details do anything close to making us more safe. Maybe it's a favor, but we should come completely clean on the issue.
     
  8. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    It's nice to know that you're properly de-sensitized. If it's not torture, then is it would be something you'd willingly undergo, repeatedly?
     
  9. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Seriously. I'm at the point where I believe NOTHING that's put forth. DemNow is a reliable source and the people who write for Counterpunch are as well. DemNow includes actual interviews from cred sources and CP is more of an op-ed but they always back up their fries.

    What's important tho is adding it all up and figuring out who the scapegoats are(there's always a few). Gitmo is for show imho and there are more than a few soldiers who claim they were told to do whatever they did, not unlike Vietnam.

    That's why,if we're going to denounce torture then just denounce torture, period and quit dk*g around with all these people's lives.
    frontline: the soldier's heart | PBS
     
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So do you believe that thing have gotten worse under Obama???
     
  11. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Yup. But at least we're closing the secret prisons. It helps, but there's still work to do.
     
  12. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Unless we completely change the way we do business :pigsfly:,there will always have to be a 'secret' prison somewhere. I see no real change.
     
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    I'm on record in this forum as being 100% for due process for people who lop off heads, put bullets in our soldiers heads, kill citizens who may be of a different religion, are imported killers from Middle East countries other than he country they are killing in. All that stuff ... better to give them a fair and speedy trial you know. None of that is true of course ... I am 0% for due process of anyone who wants to kill our people.

    I can bomb them from a few miles up in the sky, I can snipe them from a mile away, I can drop wp on them,I can kill hundreds of them while trying to kill their leader ecause it is considered collateral loss. If their kids die well that's sad but bombs don't always have a conscience ... same for their wife, their mother, thir brother and sister. I can do all of that and I can go home to bed every night and not worry about persecution.

    I can kill them in dozens of ways but I cannot drop water on their dome when a towel is over their face because I have few questions I want answers to ... why do I not understand his. :confused2: Who made these rules for killing?
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2009
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Do people really think we've closed secret prisons? :confused:
     
  15. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Not at all.
     
  16. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That assertion seems to be held by more than one former prisoner. At the very least you have to believe nothing's changed but why would you not believe in the possibility these people are telling the truth. For sure,nothing's changed.

    Democracy Now! | Headlines for April 15, 2009
     
  17. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No,in fact it's sounding as if there are a lot more than we first realized which is why (imho) the "closing of Gitmo" was yet another dog-and-pony show,done with great flourish and publicity but in the end,pretty meaningless.

    Transparency ;)
     
  18. patsfan13

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    The reason I don't believe them is that they were trained to lie about their treatment to help the jihadist win the propaganda war. Why would you not give the benefit of the doubt to people who are protecting you rather than taking ast face value the claims of people who want to murder you????:confused:
     
  19. Leave No Doubt

    Leave No Doubt PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Then they should speak out and correct any false perceptions. BTW those ex-prisoners were held even after being found not guilty, so I'm not sure they wanted to "murder me". Point being,like I said a few times already, Obama's the one who promised to "put an end to torture". So...that's why the subject is in the spotlight.

    You may want to consider the fact that American citizens have also been "snatched and jailed" and subsequently treated in a similar fashion. :rolleyes: Dave Lindorff: Snatch-and-Jail Justice?
    AP IMPACT: Citizens held as illegal immigrants
     
  20. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    listen.......the whole gitmo thing is going to get swept under the rug just like the whole madoff thing simply disappeared.......

    because too many politicians were in the know for too long........including democrats

    some things are better left under a rock
     

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