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Award winning economist says America has bankrupted itself with the Iraq war

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by weswelker#83, May 7, 2008.

  1. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    Last edited: May 7, 2008
  2. MosiT

    MosiT Banned

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    No, please tell me this can't be true? We must just be in a slowdown?
  3. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Entitlements will kill us, not Iraq.
  4. MosiT

    MosiT Banned

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    Wrong. Trillions of dollars, not billions but T r i l l i o n s in just five years since 2003. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands dead and injured and the millions left homeless.

    Iraq is the main reason our nation is in the deep crap that it is in, inculding the cost of oil and gasoline.

    OPEC has only one weapon with which to fight the hated Americans, Oil.
  5. MosiT

    MosiT Banned

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    And BTW John McCain is one of the biggest entitlement givers in the senate. He just hides it better.
  6. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    They always throw out numbers and I'm convinced they're including the salaries of the military which would be paid in wartime or not. I'd like to see a non partisan number of the actual expense over and above what would be spend anyway in peace time.
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now where the hell will Prince Paddle Ears get the money for his Dafurian War, jesus this is terrible, I don't know what to do.

    :bricks:
  8. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Wes I don't have a chance right now to watch a 20min video, could you provide a little summary of the main point until we get a chance to see the whole thing?

    Not having seen it, and just looking at the title, I find that hard to believe. The United States budget for 2007 was $2.8 trillion. From what I could find (actually left wing sources, one posted below) the total spent on Iraq in 2007 was $133 billion.

    $133/$2800 = 4.75%, so the US spent only about 5% of its budget directly on Iraq last year. How can this small a figure account for the Iraq war bankrupting the US? Compare that with social security, at $586 billion or Medicare at $394 billion, at about 20% and 13.5%, respectively. Defense spending as a whole takes up a big chunk of the budget, with $549 billion or about 19%, but that money would be spent on defense if Iraq was going on or not. Maybe the answer is in the video, apologies if it is.

    http://zfacts.com/p/447.html
  9. MosiT

    MosiT Banned

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    Harry, you are grasping at straws. Nothing like that will happen. Stop buying into the lies. You are not that stupid.
  10. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    The total cost I found since 2003 is about $450 billion, not in the trillions. Here's what I found by year for Iraq funding:

    FY $ Billion
    2003 53.0
    2004 75.9
    2005 85.5
    2006 102.0
    2007 133.6
  11. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    You are a liar, NEM, and you know it.
  12. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Did you serve on the front in Iraq?
  13. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

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    What's that got to do with anything?
    Last edited: May 7, 2008
  14. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    DID I ask YOU POX?..........NO
  15. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

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    I wasn't answering, I was asking. The little curly thing at the end of my sentence should've tipped you off.
  16. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What business is it of your's what I ask someone else? POX
    Last edited: May 7, 2008
  17. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Well, things turned pretty ugly in this thread pretty fast!

    One word about MosiT, no matter who he may be he has been courteous in his posts, I see no reason to continue antagonizing him. If the mods think there is a problem they will take care of it, if not, why don't we just leave well enough alone and let Mosi continue posting in peace. I mean from what I've seen he's been a model poster since joining, so why get all wound up about a potential problem if there is none?
  18. otis p. driftwood

    otis p. driftwood Rookie

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    Since you posted it on a discussion board rather than send it via PM, I assumed it was a public conversation. In the future, if you wish to have a private conversation, might I suggest not writing it on a public discussion board?

    :D
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IIRC PFIEL did a stint in Iraq. His numbers make more sense, Mostof the 'cost' of the war were expenses we were already going to incur maintaining our military.
  20. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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  21. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Oh really?
    We budgeted a $ gazillion embassy and 1 billion bucks a week for troops in Iraq?
    Do we have any other military activities elsewhere?
  22. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Afghanistan, Bosnia, Korea, Germany.... yeah we have stuff elsewhere. The defense budget is pretty large before Iraq.
  23. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    The $78 billion a year we spend annually in Iraq is not going to military salaries.
  24. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I didn't say that - I said that PART of what is spent could well be money that would be spent anyway. Salaries, meals, all that. I don't know how much that comes to, and obviously it's not the entire Iraq budget but I think some of the number fudgers add all that in to make it as big as they possibly can.
  25. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    I agree that if that's his method then it's completely false. I find it hard to believe that an economist would make such and obvious error though.
  26. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    say 80B x 5 yrs + 400B not a pittance, not 3 trillion either.
  27. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Well then you'd add in the hikes in defense spending since the war started along with the increase in VA spending for Iraq veterans etc along with lost trade and other factors I (not an economics guy) probably don't consider. I'm not saying that this guy isn't fudging the numbers in his favor, everyone does, but I find it hard to believe he's blatantly adding in military salaries.
  28. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    I don't think it is, the only number that was in the transcript (and thanks wes for providing that) was $400,000 per soldier per year. That calculation I believe is based solely on the funding specifically for the Iraq war, which are the numbers I posted previously, $450 billion over 5 years.

    So that still leaves him with the problem of how to sell the fact that a war that costs roughly 3.6% of our yearly budget ($90 billion a year divided by about 2.5 trillion a year) is the factor that would be sinking the US economy.

    I don't think he makes a persuasive argument that up to this point the war has bankrupted us. He brings up the increase in cost versus other wars, but doesn't mention if the figures are inflation adjusted. He also points out a good reason that the cost is increased in this war over previous ones, our greater focus on preventing casualties and healing the wounded:

    "And the ratios are again unbelievable. Previous wars, the ratio of survivals to fatalities is 2.5 to 1. This war it's 15 to 1. So there are a number of distinctive aspects of the war that have really driven up the cost."

    He also mentions (well, is prodded by the interviewer) the increase in cost of oil from the war, but even he admits that increase is negligible:

    "We only attribute 5 to $10 of the $90 or so increase in the price of oil to the war."

    His best point I think is that we borrowed 100% of the funds for this war, since we ran a deficit each year, and just tacked the Iraq bill onto that. (The thing I hate MOST about that is that the administration refused to even budget for it, making Iraq funding separate from the yearly budget).

    He also estimates caring for the injured from this war long term will cost $600 billion, I'm not sure if by that he meant per year or over their lifetimes, I don't believe it could be per year, and if it isn't that number seems huge, but putting it in perspective we spent that much on Social Security in 2007 alone. Maybe I'll try and find where that number comes from.

    The interviewer is pretty effing biased I'd say, this guy just couldn't wait to sink his teeth into the old USA!

    "What you're saying suggests this is without a doubt, the greatest foreign policy folly and it now is sounding like the greatest economic folly that an American administration has got itself into?"

    Yikes, guess he never learned about the great depression in school!
  29. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    I read somewhere that the improved medical technology is what has dramatically changed the mortality rate from previous wars. Soldiers who would have died in the past are staying alive with brutal injuries now and the cost of saving and treating them is an enormous burden.
  30. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    2x.

    Last was 6 months at Balad from 4/07 to 10/07.

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