Welcome to PatsFans.com

Average Incomes Fell for Most in 2000-5

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,253
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/21/business/21tax.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    ...

    While incomes have been on the rise since 2002, the average income in 2005 was $55,238, still nearly 1 percent less than the $55,714 in 2000, after adjusting for inflation, analysis of new tax statistics show.

    ...

    The growth in total incomes was concentrated among those making more than $1 million. The number of such taxpayers grew by more than 26 percent, to 303,817 in 2005, from 239,685 in 2000. These individuals, who constitute less than a quarter of 1 percent of all taxpayers, reaped almost 47 percent of the total income gains in 2005, compared with 2000.

    People with incomes of more than a million dollars also received 62 percent of the savings from the reduced tax rates on long-term capital gains and dividends that President Bush signed into law in 2003, according to a separate analysis by Citizens for Tax Justice, a group that points out policies that it says favor the rich.

    The group’s calculations showed that 28 percent of the investment tax cut savings went to just 11,433 of the 134 million taxpayers, those who made $10 million or more, saving them almost $1.9 million each. Over all, this small number of wealthy Americans saved $21.7 billion in taxes on their investment income as a result of the tax-cut law.
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    24,230
    Likes Received:
    14
    Ratings:
    +15 / 0 / -3

    So since Bush cut taxes incomes have been up, prior to thst he was dealing with the recession that started in ~ March 2000 and the economic effects of 9-11. Glad he got wages back on track with the tax cuts.

    Nice job of the NYT to try and Cherry pick the data though. ;)
  3. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2006
    Messages:
    17,226
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +12 / 0 / -0

    I belive the figures. From what i've seen wages have been stagnent for the last 6-7 years for most people. Thats why when Patsfan 13 says the economy is going great, I asked him where do you live. I could ask Fogman that also but I know where he lives. In Dnile....haaaaa.
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2007
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    40,315
    Likes Received:
    19
    Ratings:
    +19 / 0 / -0

    Confident there are wide ranges, but in my circle of friends, most are doing about the same or worse.. all this anecdotal information is difficult to decipher, but one thing for sure there are tons of foreclosures in the paper every day.. the mortgage market is tightening(with good cause) and the debt of America is increasing exponentially.

    Another thing, you do not need a study for, as there is also an increase in the number of really big footprint houses going up particularly near the coast.. while most of the rest of the RE market is pretty stagnant. What does that mean, those who have the money spend it and those that do not are pretty much left out of the dream.
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    First off, the Subject is a flat out lie that the NYT wrote as a headline and Patters copied it.

    Average incomes didn't fall - they fell after adjusting for inflation. I'm not saying that's a good thing but quit repeating lies, Patters. The subject is a lie.

    I'm not sure what the point is though. We all know that outsourcing is happening, that union membership is reducing, that poor people have more kids on average than middle class and rich people. None of that is Bush. None of that is Republicans. It is what it is. There's good paying jobs out there, I see the ads all the time. Maybe those who aren't happy with the money they make should work towards getting one.
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,502
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -5

    Drug Dealers are doing great ($800 sneakers) with a free photo of Oprah Winfrey when she's on a diet.
    :bricks:
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    The overall employment picture is much worse than it was ten years ago. It's not the fault of Bush exclusively, but to make a ridiculous lie like outsourcing has nothing to do with Bush shows what a partisan you are. You conveniently point out other factors that are tailored to your biased rumpswabing which is no better than Patters' biased Bush bashing. Personally, not enough bad things can happen to Bush in the future as far as I'm concerned, but to blame him without pointing out that the downfall of our economy is due to policies ranging back to Bush I including, most importantly, Clinton, is as big a lie as any other. The sin of ommission is commited when we attribute economic fluctuations to the present president or the previous one. IMO, Clinton could have prevented much of what we are seeing now, but he didn't. Bush could have made changes, but he didn't.

    They are all in on it together. Stop pretending they're not. Being a democrat or republican is about as meaningful as being a big AFC fan versus a big NFC fan.
    When are you going to wake up and hear that giant sucking sound?....
    Never mind....just keep voting for your blue tie or red tie and pretend that your man is better for America. Oh, and don't forget to make fun of us who vote with our conscience and don't attach to a front-runner. While you're at it, throw some blame at the Nader voters for getting Bush elected or the Perot voters for getting Clinton in.
  8. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2007
    Messages:
    8,521
    Likes Received:
    10
    Ratings:
    +10 / 0 / -0

    Gee, more millionaires then ever. That really sucks, huh Patters :rolleyes:

    And incomes fell a whole $500 bucks, that's terrible. On the bright side, maybe some of us will have to stay our fat azzes at home for a meal or two instead of going to eat sh!tty prepared food to bloat us even more. I guess that means the net positive effect on our health care should make up for loss of income, right?
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2007
  9. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    Well I don't think it does. Most people want to be part of the global economy and that is part of it. The other choice is to shut the doors on the rest of the world, protect jobs here and see inflation skyrocket (or at least move a lot faster) because we wouldn't get all the cheap stuff to buy. Maybe you prefer that - great - I can see the argument but don't pretend that stopping outsourcing is the magic bullet.

    Meanwhile my 70+ year old dad is considering working part time because a company needs a mechanical engineer and can't find one. He doesn't need the money but likes working - hmmm, the company can't find an engineer. But there's no jobs. Strange days, indeed.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    17,253
    Likes Received:
    21
    Ratings:
    +23 / 0 / -0

    That's a strange complaint, BF. Headlines abbreviate. They're supposed to give you a idea of what the story is about. The story was about how we are doing when inflation is taken into account. Headlines never tell the whole story because they can't, or they'd be too long. I'm positive I could find similar examples on any legitimate website.

    Who said it's Bush? Don't get so defensive. Certainly I think Bush hasn't been very involved with the economy, but he's not solely to blame. He's an important part of the problem, but so are things that are out of his control. And, out of curiosity, are you reading the want ads all the time because you're looking for a new job?
  11. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    LOL, nah i live in a small town and with my kids in school here we aren't moving. But I flip through the newspapers and see ads - and, to be honest, when I said "I see ads all the time" I was including jobs that friends have/get/tell me about. So although I do see ads I was technically lying just like your subject ;) I should have said "I know there's good jobs available".
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,502
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -5

    Maine:
    The money is flowing like buttermilk up here million dollar boats and million dollar motorhomes everywhere you look, traffic is bumper to bumper on the Maine Turnpike, pulling campers, dogs heads sticking out the window, people wearing white hats, all kinds of sh!t stacked on the roof and they sell 20 million lobster rolls a day and another 20 million at night.
    God & Bush Are Truly Great
    Death To America
  13. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,102
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    I don't like the NYtimes - they tend to skew facts to much for me.
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,502
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -5

    That is the Left Wing Way.
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    You did. You also failed to mention the names of prominent democrat "leaders" in the last 20 years who set the table for the future nightmare that our kids will have to deal with. Your staunch partisanship is as clear as anyone else's. It's amazing to those of us on the outside how repubs and dems think they're so different. It really is.

    The US economy is literally a paper tiger, and it's been in the works since the banks and financial institutions were de-regulated, as well as NAFTA's short-sighted promise. The chickens will be arriving home soon to roost. Hold on to your hats!
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2007
  16. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2005
    Messages:
    3,102
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0



    If Bush can cause a hurricaine, I am sure he can cause the stock market to crash.
  17. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    6,123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2005
    Messages:
    15,671
    Likes Received:
    11
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0

    Not to mention the terrorists that the republican White House and democrat Congress continue to let in. They both deserve the low ratings. Neither will do anything because low labor cost means more profit for shareholders....period! Security of our economy and lives mean nothing to those in "the Game".
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    We're also raising them - unfortunately it's a natural part of the de-evolution of sociteties - Patters calls it "Liberals always win in the end", I call it de-evolution; when a society is so successful that a larger and larger percentage of people expect society to support them instead of the other way around.
  20. godef

    godef Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,118
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    It would have been a WORSE LIE if the headline said "Average Incomes Up for Most in 2000-5" WITHOUT having adjusted for inflation.

    What is the benefit of increased income if this increase is not as high as inflation? For all practical reason and purpose, this is a negative thing. The NYT headlines was realistic, and you're just picking hairs.
  21. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    No I'm not. Any moron knows inflation exists so if incomes actually fell it wouldn't be too hard to realize that would be exasurbated by inflation.

    This was the actual headline :

    2005 Incomes, on Average, Still Below 2000 Peak

    make it :

    Average Inflation Adjusted Income Down from 2000

    1-2 characters longer - but accurate.
  22. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    31,088
    Likes Received:
    29
    Ratings:
    +37 / 2 / -3

    #24 Jersey

    At least that statement would be TRUE. Misleading, maybe, but TRUE.
  23. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
    Messages:
    37,502
    Likes Received:
    24
    Ratings:
    +29 / 0 / -5

    Especially Hurricanes that kill Poor People and don't touch Rich People.

Share This Page