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AV and Curran...Was this posted??

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Pats726, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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  2. RoadGrader

    RoadGrader Rookie

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    thanks Pats726, I found it interesting too. not much of an edge on AV's quotes in this piece unlike some others we have all read.

    as much as I was pissed at the Colts (of all teams to get AV), I choose to look at this deal simply as one between a willing, desperate buyer and a willing, happy-to-be-making-mo-money seller
  3. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I don't doubt that Adam might not have felt "loved" by BB enough, but clearly the Colts offer blew away the money that the Pats were willing to pay

    Like other deals, $3 mil a year for 3 years guaranteed represented value to the Colts. Adam's value to the Pats was slightly less and Adam went with the short term money (rather than the long term payoff of finishing his career with the Pats)

    One interesting tidbit in the discussion of this today on WEEI was the fact that as you might recall, the Patriots would often "go for it" rather than kick long field goals at Gillette quite often this past season.

    that suggests that Adam's range, at least in the swirling winds of the home field, was growing shorter

    Indeed, when you also consider that Adam hasn't kicked a field goal over 50 yards since the year 2002, you get the feeling that the Pats might have been wise not to over extend themselves to keep Adam

    One can also think back and recall that Owen Poochman and Phil Dawson - both of whom are starting kickers in the NFL right now - were all UFAs for the Patriots during the Vinateri years. (I think there may be one other NFL starting K who also was a UFA for the Pats)

    This suggests that not once, not twice, but three times during the Adam V. years we've had starting caliber Kickers in our midst obtained as undrafted rookie free agents (which is what Adam V. himself was)

    So I'm confident we'll have a decent kicker on the team - but still - if we wind up with a kicker who misses a crucial playoff FG, that $1-$2 million we saved is going to look awful insignficant.
  4. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Add Robbie Gould (Chicago) to your list.
  5. fgssand

    fgssand PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #17 Jersey

    Joe, shame on you for injecting rational, credible points to the decision and discussion about whether to keep AV for the kind of money the Colts offered.

    Around here, the media likes to make up their minds and take their shots -- you have now confused them with facts.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2006
  6. sarge

    sarge Rookie

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    ONe thing I just find so funny.

    Check out this quote from Adam, from the article
    Now I have heard plenty of players say that, from plenty of teams.

    But my question is this.

    Has a player actually ever said that when he was accepting a contract for less money????

    Seems to me want = money. David Givens made no bones about that!

    I wish players would save that crap for when they were strictly talking to the labotomized fan base!
  7. Sean Pa Patriot

    Sean Pa Patriot Rookie

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    #12 Jersey



    Tom Brady said and did accept less money... Adam, for whatever reason felt not " loved " by the Pats.. Adam you went to the colts.. because they offered you the green... period.. The Pats paid you as the highest priced kicker in the game, and u wanted more, we said no.. movin on..
  8. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I agree...and unfortunatley, I heard some of the AV press conference...while driving and I almost went off the road..as he was praising the Colts as a winning organization...and saying that he wanted continuity for a few years and..Luckily, Dale and Holley were interjecting comments that basically said
    that in the end..it was about the money PERIOD.
  9. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    For the most part we agree. But for the record, sinc Curren couldn't get it right either, Adam's deal is not for $3M a year for 3 years. It's $2.3M a year for 5 years, or $2.4M a year 4 years (with a dead cap hit of $700K), or $2.5M a year for 3 years (with a dead cap hit of $1.4M). The only real difference between what the Patriots offered and what the Colts offered was guaranteeing a portion of the contract via signing a signing bonus of $3.5M. But it was a significant difference because that essentially assured Adam he would actually see at least 3 years of continuous employment going forward.

    In the NFL there is no such thing as a multi year deal absent a signing bonus. We all know this on some level, folks have just chosen to downplay it because Adam actually left us. Couldn't be because the offer we made a HOF kicker was actually a carefully crafted insult. I know it's hard for most of us to imagine someone being insulted by a multimillion dollar offer, but if it comes with no guarantee you ever see a dime of the money, you're essentially offering nothing. If I were in Adam's shoes, I'd be pissed.

    That the Patriots via Jonathan Kraft tried to spin this as a deal designed to keep him the highest paid kicker in the league smacks of the PR spin masters on Yawkey Way. And for some reason this organization adopting that tactic really bothers me. As does the attitude of some who say we paid him plenty already. If you're not going to pay them based on past performance, you can't very well credit past earnings to pay for future performance.

    And as for the other kickers "we" found, Dawson is now 31 and has been with Cleveland his entire 8 year career, since 1999, so the we who found him must have been Bobby Greer.

    Pochman has bounced around with little success over the last 5 seasons - 2 with the Giants where he handled KO only (shorter ave than AV '05) in 10 games in 2001 and didn't kick at all in 2002, 2 seasons with the 49ers where in 6 games in 2003 he made 53% of his FG's and did not kick in 2004. He was on the Ravens roster in 2005 but did not kick.

    At 23 Robbie Gould has shown less leg out of the gate than Adam did as a rookie or as a 10 year veteran. He has yet to make a FG in excess of 45 yards (AV's long was 50 in 1997 and 49 in 2005) and as a rookie his KO's averaged 3 yards less than Adams did at 23, and a hair less than Adams at 33. Robbie had only 1 touchback all season (compared to 8 in Adam's rookie year and 10 last season).

    Not saying we won't find someone to handle the job. Just not sure we'll find someone who handles it nearly as well. And given our current financial position why we chose to create a void where none existed remains a head scratcher. Maybe they know something we don't, or maybe they misjudged both the market and this players resolve. I guess we'll find out eventually - I just hope we don't find out the hard way.
  10. minvardar

    minvardar Rookie

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    If they didn't offer AV a bonus then it is because they believe he is not worth the money for whatever reason. Whether it be a chronic back problem or age who knows. We got AV's best years and should be happy with that. I am sure that the management knows more than our speculations.
  11. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As with anything in the media...I truly don't believe you ever get the entire story straight. But, it seems to me that kicking in a DOME STADIUM was worth at least $500,000 to Vinatieri because he has it factored in how long he will be able to kick.

    If he stays healthy, he could easily end up staying with the Colts or moving south for another contract after this one. I moved on before he even signed with the Colts...my instinct was that he was angry and was moving on...I wish him well and I hope he shanks the one that would be the winner :D when we play them.
  12. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    AV was playing a little fast and loose hisownself:

    http://www.boston.com/sports/footba...ss_id=Boston.com -- New England Patriots news

    Shanks for the memories Adam.
  13. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I am not sure how you could call paying a kicker the most of any kicker an insult...He may want and demand more..but insult?? I think that is stretching it a bit if he is....and indeed, he might be totally insulted by it. To being a guarantee does mean something..he needs to be healthy and kicking up to a standard. Might he have more problems with his back than he wishes to let on?? Ot know that his kicking is not up to his standard?? I'm not saying that is the case, but what other reasons are there?? I find the use of the words 'insult" a bit ironic. Now that we know that Hurst really was not representing AV, does that mean that AV himself was negotiating for himself with the Patriots??
    I think we all know how Lawyer was insulted a few years ago. Different situation and circumstances, but that is why there are agents...to keep personal feelings out of it.
  14. T-ShirtDynasty

    T-ShirtDynasty Moderator

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  15. Pats726

    Pats726 Rookie

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    I agree..it smellls really bad..but nothing will come of it...I agree..who was representing him in GB and before??? Himself??? Just really odd...

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