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Attention Phony Bush Haters

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Oct 27, 2009.

  1. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Tell this "Socialist Dope" that you all fawn and gush over to end "the bush wars" isn't that what you phony's all wanted, no war no gitmo, why aren't you demonstrating and marching on Washington, what the hell ever happend to Jon Stewart and Looney Clooney, Americans are dying and the Phony Democrats say nothing, dead silence.

    Get Fox--Get Bush

    Todays News:
    U.S. official resigns over Afghan war
    Foreign Service officer and former Marine captain says he no longer knows why his nation is fighting.
    washingtonpost.com
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
  2. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Um, ~54% of Americans disapprove of the war in Afghanistan. There's a strong movement within the administration to shift strategies and de-escalate the war from a counter-insurgency to counter-terrorism. Have some coffee, Harry.
     
  3. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I think Harry longs for the days of the Great Decider....You know, the one who wakes up in the morning, shares a cup of coffee with Chaney and suddenly decides we need a war - and then starts one on any old premise at all. No thought, no planning, no deliberation, no discussion, no grasp of facts or consequences, no consultations - just decides.
     
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Too late for these kids and their families


    8 U.S. troops killed in Afghanistan - CNN.com
     
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Too bad Harry's right. Has nothing to do with Bush anymore. This mess requires a decision before one of my friends' kids gets killed.
     
  6. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    You make a hasty decision and even more people get killed. I mean, I'm as pacifist as anybody but given the situation there are real pragmatic problems: pull out too quickly and you destabilize an already weak Afghanistan all over again, giving the Taliban and al-Qaeda another foothold and a chance to re-build. 1) That's political suicide, and 2) another successful attack on American soil and you start the entire cycle all over again.
     
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Your post sounds familiar...where have I heard that line of reasoning before?.....maybe...oh, yeah! I remember! That's what the Bushies were saying about Iraq!
     
  8. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Except Iraq, you no, had no ties to al Qaeda. None. Zero. At least until we invaded them and created a massive power vacuum. The point is that an unstable Afghanistan is problematic for Western nations. The question now is "what is the best way to stabilize Afghanistan?" I prefer the method with the least American investment in both lives and dollars, but there's no consensus that there is an effective way to do it easily. The problem with the couter-insurgency approach is that it's vastly expensive and involves building up yet another nation's infrastructure while ours crumbles.
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How dare you call me a phony Bush hater. I always tried to be sincere!

    Afghanistan is a mess. I don't what the answer is. If we leave, no only is it a victory for Al Qaeda and the Taliban, but we leave our allies there as sitting ducks, which is not only cruel and dangerous to them, it would lead other nations to distrust our political system. There is no easy answer except to say that Reagan should have never trained the Taliban and Bush should have never launched a general war. We should have only engaged in targeted attacks on Al Qaeda, rather than make our enemy such a broad swath of the Afghani people.
     
  10. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #95 Jersey

    There is no easy solution but Afghanistan has never been a stable country, just what Kipling (?) called the " graveyard of empires." Other than Somalia, I can think of no place on earth more bereft of order or a semblance of society. It's naive to think that as a nation we can do what Alexander the great, Attila, The British Empire or the Soviets in 1980's could not do, that is bring order to the land. As a nation, it is the polar opposite of Iraq which has a history as a nation-state. It's time to follow the words of someone regarding Vietnam, " declare victory and get out".....
    I don't want to see alot of good men and women die for no good reason. Military went in in 2001 to get the Taliban out of power. Turn it over to the Afghanis and let them rule themselves. If they can't , oh well. The time has past for it to become a quagmire.
    No easy decision for this President. Send the troops and the left wing of the Democratic Party goes ballsitic. Pull them out and many Republicans will scream ,"surrender". Either way, his own words on Afghanistan will be used against him next year.......
     
  11. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Right out of the administration’s playbook: Point fingers. Remember, the buck starts here.
     
  12. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Victory for Al Queda and Taliban? That's what you care about? You're keeping score and hoping we end up with more "points" than the Taliban?

    Look, I'm not kidding myself. Harry hates Obama. We get that, right? So he will criticize Obama for doing the same thing that Bush did, even though Harry never said sh!t about it when Bush was pretending to be President. That doesn't mean Harry is wrong on this. His hatred for Obama just happens to conveniently work in concert with what Obama isn't doing about Afghanistan.

    "Cruel and dangerous" to our allies??!! How about cruel and dangerous to our own troops and their families? Rotating tours end-to-end, crappy support fot the families and returning troops, no mission support, no MISSION, scant assistance from our "allies". Who's side are you on? Since when are we obligated to the tribes of the Pashtun and the Pakistanis over the safety of our own troops?

    Contrasts between Obama and Bush don't work. Bush's (I mean, Cheney's) decision to do Afghanistan and Iraq was hasty and unplanned. Fine. But here we are. We're actually involved in two conflicts which have been killing our soldiers for eight years, and no one is doing anything about it. They can't even articulate what the mission is anymore. They can't decide how to end it one way or another despite the fact that the Obama White House has all the information they need, the most important being that there is no way to "win" and that there will never be stability in the region. Iran is probably the most stable country in the area outside of Israel and Turkey.

    And where the hell have the Indians been?

    Keep blaming Bush. The more you do, the less legitimate Obama looks. Is he the POTUS or not?!
     
  13. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Cut your losses and send our warriors home, get rid of many of the 700+ foreign bases.. reduce military spending by 50% and things would be a whole lot better.
     
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not that concerned about the Taliban. They are nuts, but they actually do seem to have a code of ethics. Al Qaeda on the other hand I think is completely unethical, criminal, and insane. A victory for them would simply feed their insanity. But, for me, the bigger issue is what to do about those poor people who chose to trust us. Do you think Al Qaeda and the Taliban are going to be reasonable? I don't. We could perhaps have boatloads of Afghanis come here. I would not be against that, but I don't think that's the answer either.

    I agree we have to keep our troops safe, but I do worry about a genocidal slaughter if we leave willy nilly. We are the one's who went into Afghanistan in the first place and made a mess of a bad situation. Don't you think we have any responsibility? I'm all for leaving Afghanistan if we can prevent a slaughter. We should probably attempt to negotiate with the Taliban -- and in fact I think there were some efforts already made that got nowhere.

    My blaming Bush was in response to Harry. Afghanistan is now Obama's war.
     
  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    She's an Obama Groupie, Prince Obama walks on water.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I wish you would all start making the noise you did when Bush was running the wars......
    Yes We Can
     
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't hate him as a person I hate the way they have all but put him on Mt Rushmore he is nothing but a Chicago Politician Bullsh!t Artist that America's (pop culture) and the MTV Crowd slobbered over then handed him the White House on a silver platter, he's a friggin Joke.
     
  18. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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