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Athiests

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Harry Boy, Jul 29, 2011.

  1. Harry Boy

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  2. IcyPatriot

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    I have to agree with them Harry ... I don't like to say it but respect for all faiths or respect for none - putting something there that represents many does not cut it.
  3. The Brandon Five

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    From the article:

    So I guess everyone is taking offense that the buildings didn't leave Star of David and Crescent shaped pieces so that everyone got equal time? What do the atheists want? A piece that represnts a nullity?

    Good grief.
  4. Triple-T

    Triple-T Rookie

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    Atheists harassing you about giving up god again? They are pesky like that. Knocking on doors, following you around, forcing their beliefs into oaths and what not. Terrible stuff.
  5. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I would love to see the Athiests & Muslims tangle, but of course it will never happen, will it....:rolleyes:
  6. sdaniels7114

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    Its cute the way Harry gets so upset when he's not allowed to impose his beliefs on everyone else.

    Well, it would be cute if he was seven, as it is, its pretty sad.
  7. patsfan13

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    Well atheist imposing their faith on others again. The existence of God can't be proven/disproven, so their belief is just that. I'm an agnostic myself but it seems that militant atheist are as intolerant as any findie christian/muslim you would run across.
  8. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    "the Atheists" :rolleyes:

    I'm sure you don't understand the difference, but the word you wanted was "some," not "the."

    But you forgot "the Jews" (as you would put it), by the way.
  9. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Is it being included because it's debris or because it's a cross?
  10. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Yes, "again." It's so unfair the way atheists run the nation and trample civil rights in the name of their lord or their books.

    And what is being imposed, exactly? This is a lawsuit based on constitutional principles. You may not agree with the application of the principles, but there's a reason they exist, and odds are the judges who are apllying them (and have applied them in the past) weren't predominantly atheists.


    Of course it is. But most atheists don't pretend that their belief is "right."


    Any evidence to support this opinion? Any violence in the name of atheism going on, for example? Any laws being passed that impose on others' civil liberties because of atheists' mere opinions?
  11. Harry Boy

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    My beliefs are up in the sky and out in my garage, I haven't been inside of a church for 60 years, I'm probably a "luke warm athiest" my point is who the f-ck do these ass holes think they are trying to deny the victims families a cross if those people want one, The Athiests object to a christian cross near ground zero how do the cowardly bastards feel about the Mosque being built near it?? Mosques are where the savage terrorists worshipped.
  12. The Brandon Five

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    Both. You don't remember seeing pictures of it when it was found? It was part of the Ground Zero site for years.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  13. chicowalker

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    Well, let's see: "As a survivor of the 9/11 attack and family member of one of the brave responders to the 9/11 attack, Mark Panzarino is appalled that the state has permitted a symbol of Christianity to represent a tragedy that affected all Americans. The Panzarinos unequivocally do not wish for a cross to represent Frank Joseph Panzarino's sacrifice unless it is a Lutheran Cross,"

    One of these "as*holes," as you've chosen to label him, is a family member of a victim.


    Why is his family being denied a Lutheran cross when they want one?


    Some atheists... but I'm quite sure there are plenty of crosses "near ground zero." I'm also quite sure the memorial will not include a mosque.

    ----------

    By the way, you forgot "the Jews" again.

    ----------

    So here's my question for those who think the demands are unreasonable -- what's wrong with their demand of "... setting aside an equal amount of space at the memorial to honor the sacrifices on non-Christian or non-religious victims of the attack..."?

    imo, this is where the Christians who cry foul about this stuff and try to pretend they're somehow being persecuted show the lack of principle behind their claims. If you feel your religious rights are being infringed upon -- which they're not, but let's go with it for now -- why are you ok with infringing upon other religions' rights?

    I'm an atheist, and I have no problem with a cross being at the memorial, just like I have no problem with Christmas displays on public property. But I do have a problem when the same people who get upset about attempts to get rid of these things in turn want to deny people of other religions their ability to displays, celebrations, etc.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  14. chicowalker

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    No -- crosses are a dime a dozen to me. But I wasn't questioning that.

    My point is, this isn't being included simply because it's debris -- it's being included because of its religious nature. See the last part of my last post for the point I would go on to make -- no need for me to re-type it.
  15. patsfan13

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    Atheist believe in no god it is a belief as provable as the belief in a particular version of God help by members of a particular religion.

    In their case by seeking not the establishment of a religion but the banning of any mention of religion from the ppublic square they are seeking to impose their version of reality on everyone by banning their views from the public square.

    It is just as bigoted, intolerant and hateful as someone insisting that say in Iran you cannot switch from being muslim to anything else.\


    Of course many were murdered by Commuist who believe in atheism, Mao, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, the Kims in Korea spring immediately to mind.
  16. The Brandon Five

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    As I said, they would have a point if there was a symbol like that on the site all along that was actually a part of one of the buildings.

    Where does the demand that all faiths be equally represented everywhere end? What about the Zoroastrians?


    On the other hand, I would support a demand for a Pastafarian symbol (like a strainer).
  17. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    Right. That's why said "Of course it is" in response to you writing "their belief is just that."


    How is seeking equal treatment the equivalent in your mind of banning?

    As I said in my reply to harry, this kind of response shows the true colors of those who are pretending their concerned about religious rights being impeded upon.


    Actually, the two would only be comparable if atheists were trying to prevent the worship of any religion, but I'm, not surprised you can't grasp that.

    Anything that somehow affects christians is reflexively seen by folks like you as bigoted, intolerant and hateful, even though christians in no way have their ability to worship curtailed here, while at the same time they try to restrict others' freedoms due simply to their own faith.


    Were they murdered in the name of atheism?
  18. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    So the test should be, we'll include any pieces of debris that happen to have religious significance? Doesn't that seem just a bit contrived?


    For many people, at Christianity.


    If there was a Zoroastrian killed at the WTC, why not?


    well, sh*t, who wouldn't?


    -----------

    In all honesty, I'm a little surprised you can't see that the families of people of other faiths who died that day (or after) might want some sort of recognition if you're also going to include a giant cross.

    And I don't see how you can seriously claim that recognizing those faiths is somehow inconvenient ("how far do you want to go?") while at the same time claiming that it's an unfair impingement on Christians' faith not to have the cross there.
  19. The Brandon Five

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    Who said anything about blocking other pieces of debris? I am saying there aren't any others that are of religious significance.

    The only ones blocking other symbols are the atheists who sued to keep them all out.

    I am saying that if you took that line of thinking (all or none) to its conclusion, there is no end to the symbols that would go there. It is impossible to cover the concept of "all" into perpetuity.

    It's not an impingement, its just nitpicking. It doesn't threaten me that it won't be allowed, but I think that it is a little extreme to keep it out because it is a religious symbol. It has historic significance on that site.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2011
  20. patsfan13

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    It is not allowing to have their opinion expressed al all in any public setting. This in fundamentally different that the state enforcing belief in a particular religion.


    Worship is mostly a private matter. What they are doing is equally odious, they are preventing people from having their opinions acknowledged and discussed in the public square they are seeking to discriminate against people who hold religious beliefs.


    Funny militant atheist in this country seem to hate christians more than say muslims since they don't sue for example when muslims request special allowances to pray at school for example. Perhaps they have a special hatred towards christians.




    Well many Orthodox priests and people who held religious services were sent to the gulag. Since religion is the "opiate of the masses" and communism expressly embrace atheism and deny the existence of god, believing in religion is subversive and a crime against the state. The same fate applied to the Bhuddist in Tibet, catholic priest and so on. Of course the communist killed hundred of millions not all of them for religion but certainly millions were murdered for having any religious belief. Hitler believed in the occult and had a sort of germanic pagan belief that included killing jews for their religious belief, this was wrapped in the guise of Darwinism.

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