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At what positions could we NOT use an upgrade?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Fencer, Jan 21, 2009.

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  1. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    As I see it, the positions at which the Pats have no real use for an upgrade are:


    • Starting QB
    • Starting Nose Tackle
    • Placekicker
    • Long Snapper

    Positions at which the Pats could use an upgrade include:


    • Backup QB (post-Cassell)
    • Wide Receiver (to replace Gaffney)
    • Tight End
    • Running back
    • Offensive tackle
    • Interior OL
    • Defensive End (because a backup upgrade could become the starter if Seymour leaves)
    • Backup NT
    • OLB
    • ILB
    • S
    • CB
    • Punter
    • Kick/punt returner
    • ST cover

    Am I missing anything? ;)
     
  2. jmt57

    jmt57 Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Now we just need to prioritize that long list of possible upgrades.
    1. - OLB
    2. - ILB
    3. - Offensive Tackle
    4. - Interior OL
    5. - CB
    6. - S
    7. - Defensive End
    8. - Tight End
    9. - Wide Receiver
    10- Backup NT
    11- Running Back
    12- Backup QB
    13- St Cover
    14- Kick/Punt Returner
    15- Punter

    That's a quick list without a lot of thought in to it, but WR and RB are low because I think we've found the Pats can find adequate players at those positions late in the draft and as undrafted free agents. Same goes with the special teams players, plus there are some decent ST players already on the team. I know the focus has been on the corners this season, but I'd like to see more pressure on the QB. Also like to see Light move to RT and a long term replacement at LT.
     
  3. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    I'd put Safety higher on the list myself. Otherwise I largely agree.
     
  4. BionicPatriot

    BionicPatriot In the Starting Line-Up

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    I agree as well.
     
  5. AzPatsFan

    AzPatsFan Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    This is a thread that illuminates nothing. You can use an upgrade at whatever position doesn't have a HOF player and a HOF reserve or maybe two. ITS A NON SEQUITOR.

    The real question is what position needs a quality starting level player?

    Surprise... None. But these positions have marginal starters. S, ILB, and CB (due to youth). Every where else, like the OL could use a developmental, and talented guy who is expected to start in two years. Same for OLB and CB and ????

    That is why they won ELEVEN games guys, despite starting an equivalent to a rookie QB! The Team simply has lots of good players and no glaring weaknesses.:D
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2009
  6. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Leaving aside the debate as to how good he is, Seymour's in the last year of his contract, and cutting him wouldn't have high enough cap savings to make sense (the team would only get back $3.3M of his $9.8M salary, and you're not going to find anyone better than him for $3.3M). If anyone's getting cut, it's Green, since they could get back half of his $5M salary in cap savings.

    Either way, as long as Warren, Green, Seymour, Smith, Wilfork and Wright are on the roster, I think we're all set on the DL front.
     
  7. BradyFTW!

    BradyFTW! PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    I agree with the general sentiment, but there are definitely starters who could be realistically replaced (but this team is still a Super Bowl favorite with all of these guys starting, so you upgrade where you can and see what happens). IMO, the team could benefit quite a bit by upgrading at any of these positions:

    Offensive line: LT, RT, RG. Mankins and Koppen are great, but any of the other three could be upgraded, IMO. I like light, but he gets manhandled by the elite pass rushers out there. I'd love to see Light at RT and a real stud at LT, especially with Brady coming off of his injury. I also like Neal a lot, but it seems like he's pretty much guaranteed to miss 6-8 games. Once again, though, if it doesn't happen it doesn't happen. We have a good OL as it is.

    Tight End: Once again, not a huge priority. I'm still curious to see how good David Thomas really is, and I'm still kinda waiting to see if Ben Watson will become a really good tight end, but I'd love to see the Pats pick up a run blocker at TE. Kinda like how they picked up Kyle Brady in '07, except with totally different results.

    WR: Low priority. Gaffney's fine. A little more speed from his position would just make things unfair, but there's a reason why Gaffney beat out Stallworth over the course of '07. Smart player, runs good routes, and, the Indy game notwithstanding, surehanded.

    RB: Non-priority. I'd like to see the Pats re-sign Jordan and bring the whole stable of RBs back, and maybe we'll even see something out of Maroney this year. Whatever- either way, the Pats will have a formidable ground game as long as one of Morris or Jordan is healthy at any given time.

    Backup QB: I'm not too worried about this one. O'Connell's had a year under Belichick, Brady, and JMD. If he's not ready yet, I'm sure they'll bring in a competent veteran behind Brady. No big deal.

    Defensive line: Low priority. I'd like to see Wilfork extended this offseason, and either way (but especially if we can't), it would be nice if we could get our hands on a more complete backup/replacement for him, but there are more 3-4 teams in the NFL than legitimate nose tackles, so that's not going to happen. Extending Wilfork and maybe Seymour as well would be gravy.

    ILB: Moderate priority. I like Guyton, but if we can get a more punishing run-stopper (think pre-stroke Bruschi) out there, I'd be all for it. I'd like to see Bruschi relegated to a backup role as soon as possible. I'd actually kinda like to see Vrabel moved inside.

    OLB: moderate/high priority. Woods was alright, but I'd like to see more here. I liked Colvin when he came back, and would be pretty intrigued to see Colvin and Thomas starting at OLB next season, with Vrabel either at inside or hybrid, and Woods and Crable for depth.

    Strong Safety: Probably our highest priority, IMO. Not sure if Rodney's coming back, and I do like James Sanders, but I'd like to see some youth and athleticism injected here. From what I hear, though, I don't think there are any major prospects that will be available for the Pats in the draft, so that's kind of a bummer. I'd be curious to see what Belichick originally intended with Tank, too. It's a real shame that he got injured so early.

    CB: I'm not so convinced that we're in dire straits here, pending the progression of Wheatley and Wilhite. Hobbs isn't the best CB out there, but he's a legitimate NFL starter. I liked what I saw from pretty much everyone but O'Neal last year, though. I'd like to think that if Wheatley had stayed healthy he would have supplanted O'Neal before Wilhite eventually did, but all in all I think that our secondary isn't as bad off as it seems. Lewis Sanders is a solid hybrid, Richardson is pretty good depth, and Wilhite and Wheatley both showed some real potential. If we could get a seriously talented player as an upgrade at CB, then that would be nice, but I wouldn't be surprised if Belichick doesn't consider it a top priority.
     
  8. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    Right on...and not only because "non sequitur" is an underrated and underused phrase.

    Brady is Brady.
    Maroney is fine (please don't hijack the thread).
    Moss is still a monster
    Welker is the best at what he does.
    Light still does a solid job.
    Mankins is a beast
    Koppen is the heart of the line.
    Seymour is a handful when healthy.
    Wilfork is a star and still improving.
    Warren does a workman's job that you don't notice until he isn't there.
    AD is a unique talent that still hasn't been fully realized.
    Mayo has everything but experience.
    Meriweather is on the verge of becoming elite.
    Gostkowski is All-Pro.

    So of the 25 "starting" positions, 14 don't need to be upgraded in 2009. Three others (DThomas, Wheatley, Crable) have high draft picks that haven't gotten a chance to show what they can do. The remaining 8 (flanker, OG, OT, ILB, CB, S, P, LS) could all use an upgrade but none of the situations are desperate for 2009. With a reasonable cap situation and a handful of high draft picks, I would expect most of these positions to have new players taking significant snaps.

    As for the reserves...well there is a reason why they aren't starting.
     
  9. RayClay

    RayClay Pro Bowl Player

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    The fact that receivers and quarterbacks get better the more they work together? (if the contract is doable)
     
  10. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Really, none huh?

    Well, I think we need quality starting players at the following positions. It usually does take a player not in the top 10 a year to develop. You must presume that all our free agents will re-sign with us if we want them.

    2009
    Please name our starting safeties. Meriweather can't play both positions.

    2010
    Please name our OG's, TE's, NT's and DE's. Warren is signed. That's one out of six starters. And we do need backups and situational players.

    Please name our CB's (there are three key spots including nickel; perhaps Wilhite and Wheatley can be counted on to be two quality stating elvel players.????)
    Is Guyton a starting level player? If not, we need an ILB to compete with him for that spot.

     
  11. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    1) Has Paxton re-signed when I wasn't paying attention?
    2) You ignore the need for 2010 starters.

     
  12. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    I'd say we're pretty solid with our fan base in China.

    Other than that we could upgrade everywhere.
     
  13. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    My point is that with a significant chance of Seymour being gone in a year, drafting a potential replacement is not necessarily silly.
     
  14. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    My point exactly.

    I was mocking people who say we NEED an upgrade to, say, #3 WR, or OLB, just because the player there is not in their estimation of star quality. (Hey -- it's been one whole season since Vrabel was a Pro Bowler.)
     
  15. Fencer

    Fencer Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    My bad. But do you seriously think he's a danger to leave?
     
  16. FarScapeR

    FarScapeR On the Game Day Roster

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    The pats are pretty set at most positions, barring injury. Defensively, our secondary is only going to get better with a healthy Wheatley returning. Hobbs is a serviceable #2 most of the year, and Meriweather has improved, but Sanders could be better. Adalius on one side and Crable/Vrabel on the other, with Mayo/Guyton inside is nothing to sneeze at. Wilfork, Seymour, Warren? Nuff said.

    Offensively, we still have a pretty smart O-Line that can protect Brady very well 18 out of 19 games. Our running game, though lacking an elite rusher, gets the job done. Jury's still out on Maroney. Moss and Welker are phenomenal, even though Gaffney isn't going to fool anyone into thinking he's Deion Branch. Tight Ends? Probably, but we don't know whether the underperfomance is due to poor play, or offensive packages and roles, Watson's drops notwithstanding.

    So, our main challenge is depth. We IRed a bunch of players this season. Before going on a acquisition spree, the front office will do an exhaustive evaluation of the talent on hand.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  17. JoeShmoe

    JoeShmoe 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Couldnt have put that any better really.

    We need a 'starting quality' SS and OLB as top priorities. After that I'd look to an OT/OG, a TE and maybe another WR

    Like you I think the CB's are a good group and I thought Wheatley and Wilhite looked promising. If we can grab another starter via FA then great

    Our two biggest problems last year was poor coverage by the safetys when Rodney went down, and a lack of a pass rush. If we can get an OLB to play opposite AD and bring on Crabel and Redd then we can move Vrabel inside and we have quite a deep ILB roster with Guyton (loads of upside and BB likes him) and Bru

    Not sure how good the draft class is for Safetys?
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2009
  18. Terry Glenn is a cowgirl

    Terry Glenn is a cowgirl Banned

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    ... basically, the list is alright...

    defense needs to be the focus of the draft.
     
  19. Synovia

    Synovia In the Starting Line-Up

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    Most teams don't have the majority of their starters signed 2 years out. Its too risky to have everyone on the team signed long term.
     
  20. aluminum seats

    aluminum seats In the Starting Line-Up

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    Tight end is an interesting point with the Pats, in that it's one of the few areas where rather than get more than one might expect from the players there, it seems we get less. An earlier poster said he was interested in seeing just how good Watson could be. Sadly, I think we've seen it--it's rare to see a player make much of a leap in year, what, year 6? For whatever reason--bad hands, a certain softness, whatever--Watson doesn't look like he's ever going to be what we hoped he would be. And Thomas showed flashes that he could be special too, and then disappeared this year after that Colts' game with his infamous penalty. So what gives? I do know that having a top-notch tight end--a good blocker, a playmaker--can be a huge boost for a team. Certainly BB seems to think so, even if we can't seem to find them!
     
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