At what point are missed games foregone conclustion?

[MoLewisrocks]

I believe it hurts the players as well as part of that money counts as revenue under the old CBA. I certainly don't think anyone should give up their season tickets in protest as they likely won't get them back in this lifetime. But TV deals are one area that could be impacted. TV money is a huge chunk of the pie, and lower ratings would definitely impact negotiations in the next deal. If anyone has a ratings box at home, they could go to a buddy's place instead to watch the games. DirecTV subscribers who buy the NFL Sunday Ticket package could not renew and also impact that.

Today's ADHD generation of sports fans doesn't have the capacity to impact NFL ratings with any consistency. The TV deals are locked in thru 2013. These fans are so impatient for their fantasy games to commence they can't even tolerate the inconveniene of an off season lockout. The instant it is lifted they will be back on to business as usual...

 

[signbabybrady]

On target excepting those like me who love attending summer camp @ Gillette.

Yup this damn lockout thing as finally effected me. I need to give my work advance notice of the time off I want to use. I blindly told them 7/28 and 7/29 as usually camp has opened on the last thursday of July. But if camp starts the following week there is no guarentee I will be able to switch my days off. I can get them back but one weeks notice may not be enough and if others on my team took the time off I will SOL. I havent missed the first practice in years and I regularly go to almost all of the first few days of practice and any others I can attend.

To compound this I have a smart phone this year and I was planning on keeping you guys in the loop with immediate updates so this doesnt just effect me it effects all of you too. :enranged:

:scream:


:violent:

 

[convertedpatsfan]

Today's ADHD generation of sports fans doesn't have the capacity to impact NFL ratings with any consistency. The TV deals are locked in thru 2013. These fans are so impatient for their fantasy games to commence they can't even tolerate the inconveniene of an off season lockout. The instant it is lifted they will be back on to business as usual...

I agree with all of that. And after this lock-out ends, I'm sure it will be business as usual.

But it's the first strike. If the labour issues continue in the future, I could see it becoming an issue. If the NFLPA and NFL are going to continue to butt heads in the future, I could see fans getting very tired of that act. Maybe not this year, but if it's the start of a trend, it could definitely damage the game long-term.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I agree with all of that. And after this lock-out ends, I'm sure it will be business as usual. But it's the first strike. If the labour issues continue in the future, I could see it becoming an issue. If the NFLPA and NFL are going to continue to butt heads in the future, I could see fans getting very tired of that act. Maybe not this year, but if it's the start of a trend, it could definitely damage the game long-term.

I think the good news on that front is they are working on a 10 year deal this time around...

One of the things they need to achieve is clarity. To that end Andrew Brandt says he's hearing the continued involovement of the Minnesota justices which really muddied the waters is something the sides have agreed will not continue. They will go back to relatively swift arbitration as the sole method of settling grievances and he thinks Judge Boylan might be the guy both sides will agree on. Not sure how that works with a sitting judge as the previous arbitrator, Dr. Stephen Burbank, is a law professor who also happens to be a member of the organization that regulates professional arbitrators. But maybe the Judge can freelance and maybe all that matters is if both sides respect him. Just cannot continue to have a situation where one side believes it always has the other over a barrel via threat to run to court.

Potential good news for the NBA is they can lockout their players without imminent threat of decertification as the weapon of convenience. Although the players there have such an upper hand already it's hard to see how even a season lost will tip the balance... Huge mistake Stern made way back when in persuing a market the talent model as opposed to promoting the game itself...

 

[TheGodInAGreyHoodie]

I certainly don't think anyone should give up their season tickets in protest as they likely won't get them back in this lifetime.

Yes, they will. Two years after Brady retires NEP season tickets will be just as available as they were in the 1980s or they are now in Miami. The NEP season ticket waiting list is no longer today in NE then it was in Miami when Marino was the QB.

 

[convertedpatsfan]

I think the good news on that front is they are working on a 10 year deal this time around...

One of the things they need to achieve is clarity. To that end Andrew Brandt says he's hearing the continued involovement of the Minnesota justices which really muddied the waters is something the sides have agreed will not continue. They will go back to relatively swift arbitration as the sole method of settling grievances and he thinks Judge Boylan might be the guy both sides will agree on. Not sure how that works with a sitting judge as the previous arbitrator, Dr. Stephen Burbank, is a law professor who also happens to be a member of the organization that regulates professional arbitrators. But maybe the Judge can freelance and maybe all that matters is if both sides respect him. Just cannot continue to have a situation where one side believes it always has the other over a barrel via threat to run to court.

Potential good news for the NBA is they can lockout their players without imminent threat of decertification as the weapon of convenience. Although the players there have such an upper hand already it's hard to see how even a season lost will tip the balance... Huge mistake Stern made way back when in persuing a market the talent model as opposed to promoting the game itself...

Those are encouraging signs. I'd hate to see the game be ruined by constant contract talks.

Yes, they will. Two years after Brady retires NEP season tickets will be just as available as they were in the 1980s or they are now in Miami. The NEP season ticket waiting list is no longer today in NE then it was in Miami when Marino was the QB.

I thought the world was ending in 2012...

The Manning Brothers each winning a Super Bowl was one of the signs of the Apocalypse.

 

[Wolfpack]

Yes, they will. Two years after Brady retires NEP season tickets will be just as available as they were in the 1980s or they are now in Miami. The NEP season ticket waiting list is no longer today in NE then it was in Miami when Marino was the QB.

Yeah! Season tickets will be just as readily available as they were in the late 90's before Brady took over the team!

Oh, wait. :ugh:

 

[WhiZa]

Prepping for the HOF exhibition/scrimmage game and prepping for a full season is comparing apples and oranges. Teams need at least a couple of weeks of camp just to get players in football shape. And given the loss of OTA's they now need a week or two more to work on basic installation. Then of course there is the matter of FA and they need at least a week of it to allow teams and agents and players to digest the new CBA and work out deals. Then of course the rookies have to be signed and depending on how much negotiation remains in their formula vs. slotting, that will take days at minimum.

And if they miss the preseason the whole deal may crumble because they'd be out three quarters of a billion (or more if you factor in lost sponsorship revenue as Fall ad money starts getting assigned elsewhere) they can never recoup and the cap would be exponentially lowered as a result. The owners don't want to eliminate games. They want to trade two pre season games for regular season. But that is off the table for the moment so it's not like they can replace missed preseason games with more regular season games this year.

Realistically Monday is drop dead date for the pre season because it will take close to a week from the time they agree on a deal until it becomes a fait accompli via the courts and recertification and a player vote and an ownership vote. They can shave a couple of days off the early open for the HOF teams, but once they lose that game they are on the cusp of a domino effect that not only impacts the remaining preseason but any deal...

Which remains the logical reason a deal finally gets done in the next couple of days.

I agree they will need extra time to prepare to make it not look sloppy, but you figure if they are going to decide between billions of dollars to make a game or instead be able to practice an extra week or two then they will take the money. I would love to hear BBs thoughts on what is the least amount of time he needs to just get a team on the field to play.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I agree they will need extra time to prepare to make it not look sloppy, but you figure if they are going to decide between billions of dollars to make a game or instead be able to practice an extra week or two then they will take the money. I would love to hear BBs thoughts on what is the least amount of time he needs to just get a team on the field to play.

I think Bill's answer would surprise you. He's not an advocate of the less is more school of thought because teambuilding and consistent disciplined execution are the foundation of his system. And he's not interested in just getting a team on the field to play, he's interested in fielding a winning team.

 

[cupofjoe1962]

Yeah! Season tickets will be just as readily available as they were in the late 90's before Brady took over the team!

Oh, wait. :ugh:

If the Patriots continue to win, people will continue to go.....

After Brady & Belichick retire, if the team slips to a 4-12 record, their will
no longer be a season ticket waiting list and they will struggle to sell out.

I remember the following Patriots urban legend from the 80's.

A guy with tickets get's a call from work early sunday morning. He
is a cook at a pub and they tell him someone called in sick and he has to
come to work. They guy calls all his friends and nobody wanted the tickets.
When he got to work he parked in front of the main exit. He left the tickets
under his windshield wipers so that anyone could take the tickets and go
to the game............. When he finnished his shift he went out and the
tickets were still their along with 2 other someone added.

 

[Wolfpack]

If the Patriots continue to win, people will continue to go.....

After Brady & Belichick retire, if the team slips to a 4-12 record, their will
no longer be a season ticket waiting list and they will struggle to sell out.

I remember the following Patriots urban legend from the 80's.

Sorry, but this ain't the 80's anymore. Back then, the Patriots really were the saddest, most pathetic organization in the league (and that includes the Lions, Cardinals and Bucs) with the worst stadium, pathetic ownership and zero fan support. Now we enjoy a great stadium and a great ownership group, 2 things which will persist even after Brady and Belichick retire.

Am I the only one in here that remembers a 5-11 season in 2000? There was no reason to believe the team would turn around, and yet the season tickets were still sold out.

 

[JoeSixPat]

The point at which the owners would cancel games is very very late in the process. Games = Revenue and assuming a deal is in place, they'd likely put players on the field with a bare minimum of preparation. The players too would not want to lose game day checks and would probably go along with this.


That's not how it SHOULD be done - it's how it could be done.

At this point we're looking at the beginning of August for training camp - and that's only if they quickly come to an agreement NOW (@ mid July), and then hold a short free agency period.

What's clear is that while they'll ultimately do everything to get a full 16 game season in (plus as many pre-season games as possible) the integrity of the game has already been seriously adversely affected for this season.

That means that you already should not be expecting the quality of play from previous seasons.

How much less quality is the question - how it affects different teams... offenses, defenses and special teams etc - how it affects rosters with signed veteran players having a major leg up on free agents and rookies etc. - and how that impacts the scoreboard and quality of play.

So while missed games aren't yet a forgone conclusion, you can probably bank on the fact that you'll be watching sub par football this season (if any) - at least in the early fall.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

If the Patriots continue to win, people will continue to go.....

After Brady & Belichick retire, if the team slips to a 4-12 record, their will
no longer be a season ticket waiting list and they will struggle to sell out.

I remember the following Patriots urban legend from the 80's.

A guy with tickets get's a call from work early sunday morning. He
is a cook at a pub and they tell him someone called in sick and he has to
come to work. They guy calls all his friends and nobody wanted the tickets.
When he got to work he parked in front of the main exit. He left the tickets
under his windshield wipers so that anyone could take the tickets and go
to the game............. When he finnished his shift he went out and the
tickets were still their along with 2 other someone added.

I for one as a Scot am wicked pissed because I would show up at Schaffer/Sullivan stadium on game day and buy great tix at face value or less. Free? Maybe after the game started.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

The point at which the owners would cancel games is very very late in the process. Games = Revenue and assuming a deal is in place, they'd likely put players on the field with a bare minimum of preparation. The players too would not want to lose game day checks and would probably go along with this.


That's not how it SHOULD be done - it's how it could be done.

At this point we're looking at the beginning of August for training camp - and that's only if they quickly come to an agreement NOW (@ mid July), and then hold a short free agency period.

What's clear is that while they'll ultimately do everything to get a full 16 game season in (plus as many pre-season games as possible) the integrity of the game has already been seriously adversely affected for this season.

That means that you already should not be expecting the quality of play from previous seasons.

How much less quality is the question - how it affects different teams... offenses, defenses and special teams etc - how it affects rosters with signed veteran players having a major leg up on free agents and rookies etc. - and how that impacts the scoreboard and quality of play.

So while missed games aren't yet a forgone conclusion, you can probably bank on the fact that you'll be watching sub par football this season (if any) - at least in the early fall.

True but BB has repeatedly said it takes several regular season games to shape a team and get it to play to its potential. Maybe we shouldn't watch the 1st 4 or so games of ANY season and just enjoy the beautiful fall weather with our families?

 

[convertedpatsfan]

True but BB has repeatedly said it takes several regular season games to shape a team and get it to play to its potential. Maybe we shouldn't watch the 1st 4 or so games of ANY season and just enjoy the beautiful fall weather with our families?

Plus 3 or 4 sub-par BB-coached football games will be far better than any of the 16 games the Bills/Dolphins/dozen other teams will be playing this season.

 

[Deus Irae]

Sorry, but this ain't the 80's anymore. Back then, the Patriots really were the saddest, most pathetic organization in the league (and that includes the Lions, Cardinals and Bucs) with the worst stadium, pathetic ownership and zero fan support. Now we enjoy a great stadium and a great ownership group, 2 things which will persist even after Brady and Belichick retire.

Am I the only one in here that remembers a 5-11 season in 2000? There was no reason to believe the team would turn around, and yet the season tickets were still sold out.

Why would you say that there was no reason to believe the team would turn around? They'd just replaced Pete Carroll and still had a lot of the players from the Super Bowl year. Of course there was reason to believe they'd turn it around.

 

[Joker]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack View Post
Sorry, but this ain't the 80's anymore. Back then, the Patriots really were the saddest, most pathetic organization in the league (and that includes the Lions, Cardinals and Bucs) with the worst stadium, pathetic ownership and zero fan support.

1989 NFL New England Patriots 5 11
1988 NFL New England Patriots 9 7
1987 NFL New England Patriots 8 7
1986 NFL New England Patriots 11 5
1985 NFL New England Patriots 11 5
1984 NFL New England Patriots 9 7
1983 NFL New England Patriots 8 8
1982 NFL New England Patriots 5 4
1981 NFL New England Patriots 2 14 0
1980 NFL New England Patriots 10 6 0

Being a Patriots season ticket holder the entire decade, I can unequivocally say that "zero fan support" is an outright lie.Even in the down years, there was always a hardcore 20,000 fan base that attended every game. Some of my fondest memories are from that decade and tailgating every home game in Lot 17 with the same group of friends lined up in the first row of that corn field along Rt. 1. How this moron gets "saddest organization in history!!!" out of five winning seasons including a Super Bowl appearance is, quite frankly, a question for mental health professionals.

 

[JoeSixPat]

True but BB has repeatedly said it takes several regular season games to shape a team and get it to play to its potential. Maybe we shouldn't watch the 1st 4 or so games of ANY season and just enjoy the beautiful fall weather with our families?

If he was admitting how far from potential they were in the first month even WITH a full offseason, I don't want to think of how the quality of the game might suffer if free agency is taking place in mid-August.

I'm not a season ticket holder but if I were I'd be royally pissed.

 

[Wolfpack]

Why would you say that there was no reason to believe the team would turn around? They'd just replaced Pete Carroll and still had a lot of the players from the Super Bowl year. Of course there was reason to believe they'd turn it around.

Because Drew Bledsoe was still quarterback, period, end of discussion.

 

[Wolfpack]

Being a Patriots season ticket holder the entire decade, I can unequivocally say that "zero fan support" is an outright lie.Even in the down years, there was always a hardcore 20,000 fan base that attended every game.

As opposed to most other teams who had a hardcore 70,000 at every home game.

Seriously, though. Stop embarrassing yourself. If you're trying to convince us all how loyal and widespread the Patriots fandom of the 1980's was, you're just making a complete fool of yourself.

Some of my fondest memories are from that decade and tailgating every home game in Lot 17 with the same group of friends lined up in the first row of that corn field along Rt. 1.

Wow. What a pathetic statement if it really is true. I am sure most people in this forum have fonder memories of the past 10 years than they do of the decade of the 80's.

But you feel free to continue talking about how wonderful the Tony Eason years were!

How this moron gets "saddest organization in history!!!" out of five winning seasons including a Super Bowl appearance is, quite frankly, a question for mental health professionals.

What do you think those same mental health professionals would say about an individual who feels the need to personally attack someone by labelling them a "moron" simply because that person has a different opinion than you regarding the professional caliber of the New England Patriots circa the 1980's?

By the way, the fact that you put my statement in quotes but couldn't even quote me accurately shows how poor your reasoning is. You obviously can't respond to what I actually said so you have to put words in my mouth and then respond to what you're pretending I've said.

Tell me, were you deliberately trying to be dishonest or do you think the terms "in the league" and "in history" are equivalent?