Assorted Bits of Random Blasphemy

[Kontradiction]

Draft misses are what happens in the NFL, it's not unique to the Patriots. What is important is how the team is now, and short of a second safety, we have an excellent secondary.

That they happen in the NFL doesn't excuse the fact that the Pats missing at one single position and having to spend draft capital on it in literally every draft since 2004 has caused the decline in the defense that we currently see today. And that's just in the secondary without having to pull names like Ron Brace or Tyrone McKenzie for good measure. Blaming the failures of the front office on Brady as a reason why the team hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2004 seems awfully unfair to Brady considering the defenses that he's had to drag into the playoffs during many of those years.

 

[Kontradiction]

They were some of the best regular season offenses of all time, how many points did they put up in those playoff losses? With some better O-line depth the Giant’s D-line wouldn’t have turned Brady into a piñata. If they had to respect the run they wouldn’t have been able to tee off on Brady.

You're basically saying that the offense didn't put up as many points in the postseason. That's like saying the sky is blue. Like I said before, offenses tend to put up less points in the postseason as a whole. It's due to the caliber defenses they are playing for the most part, and weather for another. The greatest offense of all time just put up 24, 26, and 8 in the postseason while they totaled 606 points during the season and 36 PPG on the way to a Super Bowl loss. Who was the defense they scored the most on during that post season run? You guessed it.

And even with the factors you just listed from 2007 and 2011, it still doesn't change the fact that the offense handed the defense the keys to the lead only to watch the defense allow the Giants to drive nearly the length of the field both times on the way to the W. It doesn't change the fact that Eli went 30-40 in 2011 and the Giants DOMINATED time of possession. It doesn't change the fact that the Ravens were moving the ball at will in the 2012 AFCCG after Talib went down and the Broncos were carving us up on short passes all day long either because, after Talib went down, the depth in the back end (coupled with a woefully inadequate pass rush, another thing the FO screwed up on that side of the ball) wasn't good enough to get the job done.

 

[manxman2601]

That they happen in the NFL doesn't excuse the fact that the Pats missing at one single position and having to spend draft capital on it in literally every draft since 2004 has caused the decline in the defense that we currently see today. And that's just in the secondary without having to pull names like Ron Brace or Tyrone McKenzie for good measure. Blaming the failures of the front office on Brady as a reason why the team hasn't won a Super Bowl since 2004 seems awfully unfair to Brady considering the defenses that he's had to drag into the playoffs during many of those years.

What decline in our defense? Before all the injuries, it was one of the best in the NFL.

As for the supposed failures at drafting leading to the decline, when you look at the current makeup of the defense, I don't see how one can say that.

DE Chandler Jones - 1st Round pick
DT - Vince Wilfork - 1st Round Pick,
LB - Jerod Mayo - 1sr round Pick, Dont'a Hightower - 1st Round pick, Brandon Spikes - 2nd round pick, Jamie Collins - 2nd round pick
CB - Aqib Talib - Significant investment
S - Devin McCourty - 1st round pick.

Seven of our defensive players were first or second round picks. It's not as though the supposed failure of drafting CBs has led to a failure to invest in our defense.

 

[Snake Eyes]

You're basically saying that the offense didn't put up as many points in the postseason. That's like saying the sky is blue. Like I said before, offenses tend to put up less points in the postseason as a whole. It's due to the caliber defenses they are playing for the most part, and weather for another. The greatest offense of all time just put up 24, 26, and 8 in the postseason while they totaled 606 points during the season and 36 PPG on the way to a Super Bowl loss. Who was the defense they scored the most on during that post season run? You guessed it.

They went from being one of the best of all time to weak, that's not just a decline, it's a dramatic decline. They were all offenses that had finesse running games and they also had weak divisional opponents which pad the stats, they weren't nearly as good as they appeared.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

Sherman is. Not convinced about Maxwell.

Buccanon is decent 3rd/4th round value. I'm not at all convinced he's a starting safety in the NFL. Not sure why you would say I hate it.

Maxwell is surely better than Dennard.

 

[manxman2601]

Maxwell is surely better than Dennard.

I think it's premature to say that based on a half season of play. Dennard had more snaps his rookie year than Maxwell did this year. The sample size is too small on Maxwell to make that determination I'd suggest.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

It's not that close on film. I think Maxwell is better than Browner, and I think Browner is also better than Dennard.

 

[manxman2601]

It's not that close on film. I think Maxwell is better than Browner, and I think Browner is also better than Dennard.

Okay. I'll bow to your knowledge on the Seahawks. It doesn't really detract from my point to say that Talib/Dennard are one of the better NFL tandems rather than as good as any in the NFL.

 

[EddieBlake]

I love the guy and will miss him terribly,but it's time for him to go. "Yeller's my dog...."-Belichick

 

[stinkypete]

I don't think the plan is to cut big Vince because, historically, Belichick tends to cut a respected vet early in the process to give him the head start in free agency, like he did with Willie McGinnest.

 

[captain stone]

What decline in our defense? Before all the injuries, it was one of the best in the NFL...

The calibre of the competition our defense faced before all the injuries must be taken into consideration.

 

[manxman2601]

The calibre of the competition our defense faced before all the injuries must be taken into consideration.

It's the same calibre that they face every year. They were shutting down some pretty high calibre receivers for one thing.

 

[captain stone]

They went from being one of the best of all time to weak, that's not just a decline, it's a dramatic decline. They were all offenses that had finesse running games and they also had weak divisional opponents which pad the stats, they weren't nearly as good as they appeared.

Snake, I agree with both you & Kontra: the weakness of our over-rated OL has been masked by
Brady's ability to find a target before the rush arrives, and Bill's never-ending quest to find NFL-
calibre Safeties has sucked precious draft capital from other areas also in need of improvement,
e.g.: Pass-Rushers.

That's why Football is the ultimate team sport: the defense helps the offense, and the offense
helps the defense.

 

[captain stone]

It's the same calibre that they face every year. They were shutting down some pretty high calibre receivers for one thing.

I just don't think the defense that started the season was quite as good as you might think they were,
although it certainly was better than the defense that ended the season.

 

[manxman2601]

I just don't think the defense that started the season was quite as good as you might think they were,
although it certainly was better than the defense that ended the season.

I'm not one of those that thinks we need wholesale changes to the defense. Some depth and one or two additions is all we need. We're a team that lives or dies on our offense. My biggest worry is that we continue to neglect that side of the ball.

 

[mayoclinic]

I'm not one of those that thinks we need wholesale changes to the defense. Some depth and one or two additions is all we need. We're a team that lives or dies on our offense. My biggest worry is that we continue to neglect that side of the ball.

I certainly don't want to neglect the offense, but I think that as long as we're a team that "lives and dies on our offense" we'll be bridesmaids at best. That's not how the 2001, 2003 and 2004 SB teams were built, and I personally don't think it's the best way to build a SB champion today.

 

[Merril Hoge's Tie Knot]

How 'bout offense and defense?

 

[manxman2601]

I certainly don't want to neglect the offense, but I think that as long as we're a team that "lives and dies on our offense" we'll be bridesmaids at best. That's not how the 2001, 2003 and 2004 SB teams were built, and I personally don't think it's the best way to build a SB champion today.

If other teams are building their defenses as the NFC West are, I don't think the way to beat them is trying to match them; that's a bit like the USSR in the cold war. With the GOAT at QB, the way to beat them is to try and make our offense too good for their defenses. Go SDI and take the fight to them.

 

[manxman2601]

How 'bout offense and defense?

No-one is arguing against either. We're only debating emphasis.

 

[mayoclinic]

If other teams are building their defenses as the NFC West are, I don't think the way to beat them is trying to match them; that's a bit like the USSR in the cold war. With the GOAT at QB, the way to beat them is to try and make our offense too good for their defenses. Go SDI and take the fight to them.

Our defense doesn't play their defense, so I don't see the comparison. I still believe that defense wins championships, and that until we have a championship caliber defense we won't win another. What it takes to get to a "championship caliber defense" is something we can debate (and have debated, many times), but it certainly wasn't what we fielded in the last 2 AFCCGs.