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Asian discrimination in college admissions, again?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsWSB47, Feb 3, 2012.

  1. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    This particular case may or not fit,(too early to say for sure) but the article uncovers some pretty interesting back up for the trend. Maybe the admissions department is led by people with low I.Q.'s:rolleyes:

    Asian-American Claims Harvard, Princeton Denied Admission Based On Race

    Asian-American Claims Harvard, Princeton Denied Admission Based On Race

    The U.S. Education Department's Office of Civil Rights is investigating Harvard and Princeton after receiving a complaint from an Indian-American student last August claiming that both Ivy League universities discriminated against him during the college admissions process because he was Asian, according to a report published today on Bloomberg's website.

    Admissions counselors at elite colleges have also confirmed that Asians face a tougher time during college admissions. Writing for the Boston Globe, Kara Miller shared her experience working as a reader for Yale's Office of Undergraduate Admissions:

    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  2. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Maybe some idiots think Asians don't need as much help as African or Latino-Americans?
  3. Harry Boy

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    The liberals don't give a sh!t about Asians, never did.
  4. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Some have certainly implied so, yes.

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...blicans-really-racist-page16.html#post2868597

    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...tes-racially-oppressed-page4.html#post2495756
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Nice try, but the IDIOTS I am referring to are those who believe that Asians from low income household's need less help than other low income households.

    And that is blatantly false.

    As a whole, Asians do very well in America. But that doesn't imply that Asians of the same income demographics as any other person deserve any less support.

    Honestly, when it comes to education funding (scholarships), race shouldn't even be considered. The only relevant issue is ability to pay. And if we're going to support programs to help MINORITIES, then it has to include all minorities. Not just a select few.

    Admissions Officer: "Ok, so we have 3 candidates from similar income households. Wow! One is an exceptional student with impeccable scores...oh, wait, we can't help her because the other 2 candidates are African-Americans and she's just an Asian." :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  6. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Where, in the lawsuits which are under discussion in this article, does it state that any of those refused admission concerned any sort of financial aid or scholarship grants?
  7. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    That stuff was discussed back when I graduated high school ... still there I guess. Some colleges want broad demographics on their campus ... racially diverse ... sucks if you come from a pool of smart people. Sucks if you also come from a smart town or state ... they don't want to many of one type of student from anywhere.
  8. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Ironically the geographic diversity thing started as a way to reduce the number of Jews on college campuses in the 1920s. The old Guard at a few Ivy League colleges were concerned that their pristine halls were being occupied by the children of immigrants from the Lower East Side and Roxbury and had to find a way to reduce the number of Jews. They came up with geographic diversity figuring that there were not that many MOT (member of the tribe) in Nebraska and Iowa....And that as Paul Harvey used to say is the rest of the story...

    Harvard's Jewish Problem
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  9. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    So now we're going to talk in circles...you ask me a question instead of responding to my points?

    Just to humor you, the article didn't discuss financial aid, it discussed admissions. I brought that up relative to scholarhsips/financial aid becaue they're all related. And because I read this quote;


    In your opinion, is it fair to admit an African-American student over an Asian-American student if they have similar hard-knock backgrounds?
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    "The Jews!"...it wasn't that long ago...and seems almost unreal. Same for all prejudice and racist things that happened in this nation. Those who weren't victims can easily forget...but not if your ancestors were victims.

    Thank you Philly....you just educated me...I didn't have a clue that happened. I can only pretend to understand that and we need people like you to keep telling these little known bits of history.

    The wierd thing for me is that even the Irish bore the brunt of brutal prejudice when they first started coming here...and I'm sure the Italians and Polish would say the same thing. But it didn't last long and for whatever the reason, we don't pass on such stories. Where Jews, African-Americans and other minorities have felt it for generations.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2012
  11. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Having two high school students applying to college now ( one a senior, one a junior) my knowledge base is a little higher than it was several years ago. There are a plethora of sites where students can enter their GPA/SAT scores and profiles and see on a scatter-plot the students over the last few years who were accepted,rejected, waitlisted and deferred at a specific university. In almost every case where there is an outliar such as a student with very high SAT scores and high GPA who should have gotten in considering all the scores around them but was rejected, checking the profiles reveals that those students were either Asian or East Indian in ethnicity. Where there is smoke, there is often fire and in this case, I believe there is discrimination against some very qualified students because of their ethnicity and that is wrong....

    How Diversity Punishes Asians, Poor Whites and Lots of Others
  12. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    Thanks for bring this thread back on topic. This should be addressed. I'm curious though why there is so little discussion about it in this forum.....politically correct threads abound here. I think this Asian discrimination admission policy denial is a poster child of it. Let's take our heads out of the sand and face it for what it is. Good qualified kids are are being shut out. "Make up calls" are not the answer.
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    With the exception of this post, I just read every post in this thread and not one was off-topic SB42.

    Every post mentioned discrimination and/or Asians.

    So what are talking about?
  14. Harry Boy

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    Liberals have a tendecy to "ignore" Asians in fact they seem to want nothing to do with them at all.
    Asians don't seem to need the Liberals slopping and slobbering and feel good fawning sh!t.
    Asians take care of themselves, they work hard, they are smart, they demand NOTHING, they aren't obsessesd with sex crap, etc etc.

    Liberals don't like these kind of minorities and those kind of minorities don't like Do-Gooders nor do they need them.
  15. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    The question isn't why some people think other groups should get more, the question is why Asians are being shut out? It doesn't make sense.
  16. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    I don't know....if Asians make up only 4.7% of the US population and they make up 16% of the students at Harvard and 18% at Princeton it doesn't seem like they're being shut out on a racial basis, does it?

    Especially not when you consider that blacks compromise 7% and Hispanics, 8% of total enrollment when they make up 12.2% and 16.3% of US population respectively.

    Demographics of the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  17. Hamar

    Hamar Rookie

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    So, would it be ok to apply that same logic to everything racial? Just curious.
  18. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    College enrollment and percent of population are not linked and should not be linked.

    We do not a have a quota system. That's something that drives many more qualified students nuts and understandably so.
  19. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    Are you suggesting they're getting preferential treatment? I know you aren't but this is an example of where raw stats don't tell the story. On the contrary, I think their overwhelming success in earning their places in universities has led to "diversity guru's" to butt in and level the field.

    Hmmm only 4.7% of the population and there's 18% enrolled here?....why we have to put a stop to that! That can't be fair. We just have too many Asians, qualifications be damned.

    I really think this attitude lurks in some of these universities. Their "do gooder" intentions are hypocritical in my opinion.

    Do colleges redline Asian-Americans? - The Boston Globe

    Some Asians' college strategy: Don't check box

    Washingtonpost.com: Affirmative Action Special Report
  20. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    First off, let me say that I'm not trying to make this a pizzing contest....I have no dog in this fight and the subject is not something I've ever managed to make my mind up about in several respects. I'm basically trying to play devil's advocate - and perhaps get some opinions which may help me come to a personal decision in the process.

    If you read this thread, http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...12/892307-stop-complaining-start-signing.html, you'll find that several people felt that a private school can set any guidelines they wish. If you talk to a Ron Paul supporter, you'll find that they believe that any private entity has the right to refuse services to anyone based on their own personal beliefs.

    Harvard and Princeton, the two universities being discussed here, are private schools - because of that, aren't they allowed to set their own admssions policies - and their own sliding SAT scales based on whatever they want?

    Normally I would argue that no, they are not - as long as they take public funds and accept government money they should be expected to follow federal guidelines - but, as PR points out, there are no racial quotas - so that's out as an argument.

    I don't know the answer - and, as I said, I'm not even sure how I feel about it - but, so far, based on the opinions here, that evil liberal state, California, is doing it right and should be setting the example for the rest of the states (and private institutions, as well) with their law which legally prohibits public universities from considering race in admissions. At the University of California Berkeley, for example, 40 percent of undergraduate students are Asian.
  21. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    You know me better than that.

    What I'm saying is the opposite, actually. I'm saying that if they were being kept out for racial reasons, there probably wouldn't even be that many (18%.)

    There are numerous things besides SATs, IQ and grades which are considered for admission - I am not saying that Asians are not well-rounded, ok, so plase don't go down that road with me, but there are other considerations in admitting students. Without knowing the entire criteria for admission it's really hard to say that discrimination is taking place (if it is taking place) for one reason and one reason only.
  22. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    MRSP. I do know you better than that and that's why I did say I knew you weren't.

    There seems to be mounting evidence in the articles posted throughout this thread that something manipulative is going on in some of these universities. I'm suspicious as are the authors of the many articles cited that there is in the Asians cases, more weight is given to the other criteria to eliminate them than with other groups that might have scored as high....and I'm perplexed as to why there is so much resistance to that notion.
  23. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Because it would force them to admit that they was de facto, discrimination...against Asians.

    Statistics on Reverse Discrimination
    >>>Evidence from Florida and Texas, where preferences were temporarily abolished by court order,
    confirms that Asian-Americans are systematically kept out of college in favor of less qualified applicants
    benefitting from government-sanctioned racial discrimination. A 2005 study of elite colleges by Princeton
    researchers Thomas J. Epenshade and Chang Y. Chung found that in the absence of racial preferences,
    Asians would gain four out of five spots that go to blacks and Hispanics.
    Another 2009 study from Mr. Epenshade and Alexandria Walton Radford, in collaboration with
    Mr. Chung, found that Asian students need a near-perfect SAT score of 1550 to have the same chance
    of being admitted at a top school as whites and blacks with scores of 1410 and 1100, respectively.
    Overall, whites had a three-fold, Hispanics a six-fold, and blacks a more than 15-fold chance of being
    admitted compared to Asian-Americans.
    Lee Cheng, spokesman for the Asian American Legal Foundation, told me this month that racial
    preferences give Asians a "Chinaman's chance" of admission to the nation's best colleges and
    universities. Indeed, discrimination against Asians is so pervasive that Daniel Golden, author of
    "The Price of Admission," has dubbed them the "new Jews, inheriting the mantle of the most
    disenfranchised group in college admissions.">>>
    (Sorry for posting 4 sentences instead of the 3 max but it was needed full context)
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  24. PatriotsReign

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    There it is in a nutshell folks!
  25. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Maybe too many people eschew facts and believe people like Pat Buchanan?

    Buchanan echoes with, "50 percent of Harvard's student body is drawn from about 5 percent of the U.S. population," i.e., Jews and Asians. He also complains that "non-Jewish whites -- 75 percent of the U.S. population -- get just 25 percent of the slots. Talk about underrepresentation," says Pat, "Now we know who really gets the shaft at Harvard -- white Christians."

    The Color of Meritocracy
  26. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Come on, you're better than that. When someone raised the specter that maybe there is discrimination against Asians, to trot out an extremist bigot like Pat Buchanan and lump us all together is disingenuous at best. Actually Pat would likely be on your side, wanting to limit the number of Asian-Americans....
    If you want to get down to facts, the facts are that yes Asians are over represented due to their proportion in the population but underrepresented in proportion to the number of high academic, high SAT scores. We've beaten that horse til it's well past dead.
    The issue is whether it is okay to discriminate in the name of diversity and to limit the number of students based on their ethnicity/race. Some on this board call discrimination when they see it and find it to be wrong. If a student has the grades and scores to be admitted, why should he be passed over for a lesser student simply because he belongs to a certain ethnic, racial or religious group??? If the result of a ethnic-blind admission policy is a school that is majority Asian-American like seven of the nine U California schools, so be it. Work harder and you'll get in.. From the OP down, all the students are asking for, is a level playing field and a fair shot at admission, not having to score 310 points higher...
  27. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    Not to be nit-picky but how is a score of 1550 considered "near perfect" in this day and age when a perfect SAT is 2400 and 1538 is currently considered "average?"

    SAT Scoring- Average SAT Scores
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012
  28. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    No, you "come on, PFiP." You know as well as I do that there are millions of people who get their news straight from people like Buchanan and Limbaugh and Rush. I never said "you" did, nor did I say anyone else here did, either....but that does not negate the fact that there are tons of people who do.

    Again, I've stated numerous times that I have no real opinion on the subject because I don't know enough about it and I've not been directly affected by it in a long time. Please don't put words into my mouth that I've not said - especially when I've gone to great lengths to explain my non-position of devil's advocate.
  29. Harry Boy

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    American Indians and Asians should unite and hold a Two Million Man March on Wasington and demand a "Asian Indian Caucus" then they also should demand a TV Program called "Asian Indian Entertainment" they also should demand to be included in more TV Commercias, Leading Roles In Movies and Immedtiate hiring on All Fire & Police Depts throughout the country.

    It would also be nice if America had an organization called "The Asian Indian Panthers"

    :bricks:
    "let little grey wolf have the ball children he's an Indian"
  30. Patsfanin Philly

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    They are basing it on 1550/1600 the old method which doesn't use the third part ( the writing part). Some of the schools only use the math and verbal and not the writing. When someone refers to a 1500 as a good score, they are referring to the old scale. When they refer to a 2100 or higher, you know they are using the new scoring system...
    They (College Board) try to make the 500 score the mean so a 1000 would be the mean on the old system while a 1500 would be mean on the new system...
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2012

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