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As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angry

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Fogbuster, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    .

    It's happening all over America. Pushing for too much, too soon has got people worried..... upset. Is this "Change we can believe in"???


    [size=+3]Protests, passions roiling town hall meeting on health care[/size]

    What was intended to be a town hall discussion on President Barack Obama's health care reform proposal dissolved into a shouting match with shoving and scuffles in Ybor City tonight.

    The event brought home to Tampa the recent phenomenon of angry opponents of Obama's proposal disrupting town hall meetings by Democratic members of Congress during the August recess.

    This meeting was organized by Democratic state Rep. Betty Reed but was to include comments on the proposal by U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor, a strong supporter.

    Protests, passions roiling town hall meeting on health care


    [size=+3]Six people, including P-D reporter, arrested at Carnahan meeting[/size]
    By Leah Thorsen
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    08/06/2009

    UPDATE: St. Louis County police say six people were arrested. Two of those were arrested on suspicion of assault, one of resisting arrest and three on suspicion of committing peace disturbances. Carnahan was gone when the ruckus started.

    Kenneth Gladney, a 38-year-old conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with “Don't tread on me” printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room of the St. John's Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was waiting to be treated for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face that he suffered in the attack. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack started.

    “It just seems there's no freedom of speech without being attacked,” he said.

    MEHLVILLE -- St. Louis County police on Thursday arrested at least four people, including a Post-Dispatch reporter, outside a town hall forum held by Rep. Russ Carnahan, said Dawn Majors, a Post-Dispatch photojournalist who witnessed everything unfold.

    It happened about 8:30 p.m at Bernard Middle School on Forder Road in Mehlville. Carnahan, D-St. Louis, had drawn a rowdy crowd that overflowed the school gym and left dozens of people outside. Many of those who showed up at what had been billed as a forum on aging carried signs about the national health-care debate.

    Dozens of people were kept out because there was no room for them inside. Members of the local Tea Party Coalition, a movement that has emerged to counter President Barack Obama’s policies, had urged their members to attend, which in turn spurred Democrats to establish a strong presence.

    The event was winding down when Majors said she saw a police squad car turn its lights on and went to see what was happening. As she approached it, her eyes started to burn.

    http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...0470FEB3219207458625760B001142AC?OpenDocument


    This isn't about race; it's about those who don't want to work demanding to be taken care of by those who are willing to work.

    //
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I guess I'll finally go on record on this issue...

    I ultimately don't agree with nationalized health care, ... there, I said it. ... But not because the cause isn't right. Instead, it's because we're broke and have much, MUCH more dire and pressing emergencies staring us right in the face.

    Different time? Different financial circumstance? I'd be all for it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  3. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr


    Hmmm, maybe we could agree on something here. The *concept* of universal health care is laudable, imo; no one should be forced to deal with the byzantine maze that the current health care system is.

    BUT, having said that, "health care" is THE poster child for: there's a right way to do it, and there's a wrong way. And my entire concern about the Obama health care exercise -- indeed, with his entire administration -- is how much "change" does he want to ram through the national fabric of life?? Does he want to burn everything to the ground and re-build from scratch (with government bureaucracy at the helm)??

    Or does he truly have the stamina to see things through to the long-ran implications of government ownership of the health of all Americans, something that has always been a personal responsibility??? Ie, does he see how a government-run system will degrade the quality of health care, or is he just so hell-bent-for-leather to make a "BIG SPLASHY CHANGE" that quality is left behind for sake of expediency???

    Yeah, as you say, it is a gargantuanly expensive proposition he wants to force onto the tax-payers of America, and America's economic situation has not been so weak since WWII.


    //
     
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    This anti-health care campaign is clearly an orchestrated attempt at intimidation. There is already plenty of video and audio evidence out there that people like Limbaugh, Beck, and Dobbs are feeding people lies and urging them to be disruptive.

    Tampa Town Hall On Health Care Reform Disrupted By Violence (VIDEO)

    They are angry because they are being told to be angry as part of the racist birther campaign. Let's not forget, though, how dangerous the American right wing can be. It's history includes using the National Guard to shoot strikers, using the police to injure and harass gays, using the FBI to ruin the lives of people with left wing beliefs, using religion to incite people into killing abortion doctors, and using various groups to kill civil rights workers and blacks.
     
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Makes me wonder how anarchy will resonate with the fundamental christian base of the right???... Do not see this as a good fit for the right..
     
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Those people are doing what the Civil Rights Demonstrators did, they are doing what the Anti Viet War demonstators did, they are doing what the people in Selma Ala did, they are doing what the Bush Haters did and they are doing what the Farmers in Lexington did only this time the American Left Wing Liberals don't like it, THOSE PEOPLE ARE AMERICANS AND THEY ARE SPEAKING UP.

    THOSE TOWN HALL DEMONSTRATORS HAVE FINALLY GOT THE BALLS TO ACT LIKE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS
     
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    No, Harry, civil rights workers and anti-Vietnam war protesters were acting against things that were real and being experienced. The anti-health care people are acting against what they've been told about the health plan, not against any sort of reality. If the health plan fails to deliver, then protests are in order, but right now these people are victims of a fear campaign being orchestrated by the big insurance companies and right-wing pundits.
     
  8. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Not entirely true, you make it sound as though there is no voice of dissent from individuals. There is and it shows. The Dem's would have you believe there isn't and they are the one's running a campaign in the media on this issue.
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I'm not at all against dissent, but I think real anger at the possibility of national health care has as its source political opportunism and nothing more.

    I can understand, though not agree with, angry protests against gun control, abortion, even gays, since progress (in my view) on those fronts is a reality. But, I don't think the kinds of health care plans being talked about in Congress would inspire many people to take action unless their was an orchestrated campaign of fear and misinformation, which in fact there is.
     
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Dissent,
    Like it or not it's growing, most Americans realize although not absolutely perfect this country has the best health care in the world.
    America now has a "socilaist president and a socialist congress" this president and this congress want "Power Forever" they want America to be another Latin America Dictatorship.

    Barack Hussein Obama is fast becoming the closest thing to a full fledged Dictator that this country has ever seen he and his "Czars" want complete control over every move you make and they want to "Silence" any opposition you may try to make against them, all Dictators start out this way.

    SEND THIS TO THE WHITE HOUSE "STOOL PIGEON DEPT" AND TELL THEM HARRY BOY SAID IT, SEND IT IN CARE OF "STOOL PIGEON CZAR"
     
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    How do you know that? What measures are you using? I've lived under five different health care systems. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Whether you use accessibility or longevity as a measure, the plan we have in the US is not the best. The fact is other countries with their national health care plans do far more on the preventative front and, as a result, people live longer and are healthier.

    That's absurd, and you can't cite one nonpartisan fact to support that.

    Well, there's certainly a political struggle going on, and just as the right succeeded in silencing Dan Rather, taking over the radio, and getting their own tv station, now liberals are going to play their version of the game. This game has been going on for decades, and you're old enough to know that.
     
  12. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #95 Jersey

    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    So you're saying that they should wait to be re-active once the plan is implemented instead of being pro-active? Many like myself have read the plan, or major parts of it and don't like it but I'd rather voice my displeasure now rather than wait until it potentially could be too late to undo the damage. I'm no more a tool or stooge of the insurance companies than those in favor are tools/stooges of the unions like SEIU. You can have valid reasons for opposing it.
    Do we need reform? Absolutely but not enough to throw the baby out with the bath water. 85% of the public is covered. Let's find a way to cover the other 15% without destroying the entire system and 1/6 of the economy. With the scope of this, it warrants reflection and I hope we can all agree that it shouldn't be rushed. I'd like to see reforms on the state levels, sort of each as a mini-lab with 50 different models and see which ones work to ensure wider access without bankrupting the state.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I agree, but are you so riled up about it that you would engage in disruptive behavior? Surely, you've read about rumors that the plans will lead to euthanasia of the elderly, allow the government to read your medical records, and force you to go to a doctor you don't want to go to. That's all b.s.

    The plan basically does what you're saying. That's why many liberals, including myself, are not pleased. Basically, the 85% of people who currently have insurance will still have the same insurance, unless their employer chooses to change plans. The only big improvement will be in the area of preventative care, which the plan will promote (which is typical of national insurance plans; that's why longevity tends to be longer where national health care is enacted). I would also add that these proposals have been in the works since the 1970s, so the plan is not being rushed. Most of thinking behind it is quite old, and what is going on now is simply the compromises necessary to get anything done in DC.
     
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I know health care needs fixing but we don't want to be another "Canada, Cuba, UK"

    The AARP members are right now scaring the sh!t out of the Obama White House and all of his Groupies, there are millions of "Old Bastards" in America and they want nothing to do with Obama's Cuba Health Care, they are afraid that Obama Will Kill Them.

    There are also millions of poor people on Medicaid who get better Health/Dental care than Elizabeth Taylor does, they want nothing to do with Obama's sh!t either.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    This whole thing sucks.

    No one seems to have the balls to admit that neither the government nor the "private sector" (which can't seem to exist without government subsidy) has the ability to solve any problems. The sh!theads in charge on either side are incompetent and unimaginative. Buth depend on PR campaigns to sway public opinion and neither one offers adequate solutions.

    I think we might be entering an era when we'll be at the mercy of dim-witted, cowardly fools who somehow were able to rise to positions of power and , once they got there, have no clue about how to get anything done. That goes for the President, corporate welfare whores and the public in general. It's a result of the ascent of the "lockdown generation" who are now coming of age. Psyche majors who have gone into marketing and advertising and are now bleeding their influence into the realms of big business and government. They get to the top, look around at the zombie population who are more than willing to do anything they're told and say to themselves, "Oh baby! This is going to be easy!"

    There are plenty of willing fools on both sides. Liberal Obamaphiles who will agree with anything the White House says or does. Conservatives who obey their masters (big pharma and th insurance companies who own the hospitals and doctors) who tell them that government healthcare is "socialist". Cash for Clunkers, cap & trade and half-assed healthcare proposals from the WH. Dittoheads who think Obama's a foreigner and a traitor.

    Smoeone friggin shoot me. Jefferson was right. We're waaaaaay overdue for a revolution. Blow the whole thing up!
     
  16. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr


    They're not fools. All you need to do is to follow the money to see how smart they are. That's entirely the problem, though, as money and lobbying corrupt the system.

    As for solving problems, we've got useful models all over the western world to base an effective, inexpensive system on. We're too chicken to nationalize it, though. To our own detriment.
     
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Good Work Wistah,
    Health care needs fixing, it should be done by both partys, the bill should be read & reread, the people should be informed as to what is in the bill then and only then should it be passed.

    WE DON'T WANT COMMUNIST HEALTH CARE WE DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT DECIDING WHO LIVES AND WHO DIES, I DON'T WANT THAT FILTHY OLD DIRTY SOCIALIST BAG PELOSI TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE HEALTH CARE OF MYSELF OR MY FAMILY

    GOD DAMN OBAMA AND HIS FAWNING SLOPPING BALL SUCKING GROUPIES CAN KISS MY OLD WHITE A$S, F-CK THEM.

    A REVOLUTION IS BUILDING AND THE OLD BASTARDS OF AMERICA ARE GOING TO START FIGHTING.
    YouTube - Kathy Castor - Healthcare Town Hall Meeting in Tampa - 8/6
     
  18. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I don't like it when professional organizers purposely stir up people by using lies and misrepresentations, but really Patters you make it sound like no one could otherwise ever be upset. There are legitimate and genuine concerns for people and believe it or not :cool:they just may attend some of theses meetings on their own to express those concerns. BTW dangerous left wing unions reportedly are organizing "mobs" as well to “balance” the outrage. Do you have a problem with that?
     
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I've been a Union Man all my life (Teamsters) and I'm ashamed of those Obama Union Thugs breaking up this meeting of Americans who are voicing their constitutional rights.

    GOD DAMN SOCIALIST OBAMA
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  20. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I disagree. The healthcare system should be done by smart people through research and science...not politicians who can't do any other job if their lives depended on it.

    I'm an old bastid, too. But I don't buy into your cut-and-paste talking points about "comminist health care"...that over-simplified crap. Don't buy it.
     

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