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As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angry

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Fogbuster, Aug 7, 2009.

  1. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    .

    It's happening all over America. Pushing for too much, too soon has got people worried..... upset. Is this "Change we can believe in"???


    [size=+3]Protests, passions roiling town hall meeting on health care[/size]

    What was intended to be a town hall discussion on President Barack Obama's health care reform proposal dissolved into a shouting match with shoving and scuffles in Ybor City tonight.

    The event brought home to Tampa the recent phenomenon of angry opponents of Obama's proposal disrupting town hall meetings by Democratic members of Congress during the August recess.

    This meeting was organized by Democratic state Rep. Betty Reed but was to include comments on the proposal by U.S. Rep. Kathy Castor, a strong supporter.

    Protests, passions roiling town hall meeting on health care


    [size=+3]Six people, including P-D reporter, arrested at Carnahan meeting[/size]
    By Leah Thorsen
    ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH
    08/06/2009

    UPDATE: St. Louis County police say six people were arrested. Two of those were arrested on suspicion of assault, one of resisting arrest and three on suspicion of committing peace disturbances. Carnahan was gone when the ruckus started.

    Kenneth Gladney, a 38-year-old conservative activist from St. Louis, said he was attacked by some of those arrested as he handed out yellow flags with “Don't tread on me” printed on them. He spoke to the Post-Dispatch from the emergency room of the St. John's Mercy Medical Center, where he said he was waiting to be treated for injuries to his knee, back, elbow, shoulder and face that he suffered in the attack. Gladney, who is black, said one of his attackers, also a black man, used a racial slur against him before the attack started.

    “It just seems there's no freedom of speech without being attacked,” he said.

    MEHLVILLE -- St. Louis County police on Thursday arrested at least four people, including a Post-Dispatch reporter, outside a town hall forum held by Rep. Russ Carnahan, said Dawn Majors, a Post-Dispatch photojournalist who witnessed everything unfold.

    It happened about 8:30 p.m at Bernard Middle School on Forder Road in Mehlville. Carnahan, D-St. Louis, had drawn a rowdy crowd that overflowed the school gym and left dozens of people outside. Many of those who showed up at what had been billed as a forum on aging carried signs about the national health-care debate.

    Dozens of people were kept out because there was no room for them inside. Members of the local Tea Party Coalition, a movement that has emerged to counter President Barack Obama’s policies, had urged their members to attend, which in turn spurred Democrats to establish a strong presence.

    The event was winding down when Majors said she saw a police squad car turn its lights on and went to see what was happening. As she approached it, her eyes started to burn.

    http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/ne...0470FEB3219207458625760B001142AC?OpenDocument


    This isn't about race; it's about those who don't want to work demanding to be taken care of by those who are willing to work.

    //
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I guess I'll finally go on record on this issue...

    I ultimately don't agree with nationalized health care, ... there, I said it. ... But not because the cause isn't right. Instead, it's because we're broke and have much, MUCH more dire and pressing emergencies staring us right in the face.

    Different time? Different financial circumstance? I'd be all for it.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  3. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr


    Hmmm, maybe we could agree on something here. The *concept* of universal health care is laudable, imo; no one should be forced to deal with the byzantine maze that the current health care system is.

    BUT, having said that, "health care" is THE poster child for: there's a right way to do it, and there's a wrong way. And my entire concern about the Obama health care exercise -- indeed, with his entire administration -- is how much "change" does he want to ram through the national fabric of life?? Does he want to burn everything to the ground and re-build from scratch (with government bureaucracy at the helm)??

    Or does he truly have the stamina to see things through to the long-ran implications of government ownership of the health of all Americans, something that has always been a personal responsibility??? Ie, does he see how a government-run system will degrade the quality of health care, or is he just so hell-bent-for-leather to make a "BIG SPLASHY CHANGE" that quality is left behind for sake of expediency???

    Yeah, as you say, it is a gargantuanly expensive proposition he wants to force onto the tax-payers of America, and America's economic situation has not been so weak since WWII.


    //
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    This anti-health care campaign is clearly an orchestrated attempt at intimidation. There is already plenty of video and audio evidence out there that people like Limbaugh, Beck, and Dobbs are feeding people lies and urging them to be disruptive.

    Tampa Town Hall On Health Care Reform Disrupted By Violence (VIDEO)

    They are angry because they are being told to be angry as part of the racist birther campaign. Let's not forget, though, how dangerous the American right wing can be. It's history includes using the National Guard to shoot strikers, using the police to injure and harass gays, using the FBI to ruin the lives of people with left wing beliefs, using religion to incite people into killing abortion doctors, and using various groups to kill civil rights workers and blacks.
  5. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Makes me wonder how anarchy will resonate with the fundamental christian base of the right???... Do not see this as a good fit for the right..
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Those people are doing what the Civil Rights Demonstrators did, they are doing what the Anti Viet War demonstators did, they are doing what the people in Selma Ala did, they are doing what the Bush Haters did and they are doing what the Farmers in Lexington did only this time the American Left Wing Liberals don't like it, THOSE PEOPLE ARE AMERICANS AND THEY ARE SPEAKING UP.

    THOSE TOWN HALL DEMONSTRATORS HAVE FINALLY GOT THE BALLS TO ACT LIKE LIBERAL DEMOCRATS
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    No, Harry, civil rights workers and anti-Vietnam war protesters were acting against things that were real and being experienced. The anti-health care people are acting against what they've been told about the health plan, not against any sort of reality. If the health plan fails to deliver, then protests are in order, but right now these people are victims of a fear campaign being orchestrated by the big insurance companies and right-wing pundits.
  8. alvinnf

    alvinnf Rookie

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Not entirely true, you make it sound as though there is no voice of dissent from individuals. There is and it shows. The Dem's would have you believe there isn't and they are the one's running a campaign in the media on this issue.
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I'm not at all against dissent, but I think real anger at the possibility of national health care has as its source political opportunism and nothing more.

    I can understand, though not agree with, angry protests against gun control, abortion, even gays, since progress (in my view) on those fronts is a reality. But, I don't think the kinds of health care plans being talked about in Congress would inspire many people to take action unless their was an orchestrated campaign of fear and misinformation, which in fact there is.
  10. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Dissent,
    Like it or not it's growing, most Americans realize although not absolutely perfect this country has the best health care in the world.
    America now has a "socilaist president and a socialist congress" this president and this congress want "Power Forever" they want America to be another Latin America Dictatorship.

    Barack Hussein Obama is fast becoming the closest thing to a full fledged Dictator that this country has ever seen he and his "Czars" want complete control over every move you make and they want to "Silence" any opposition you may try to make against them, all Dictators start out this way.

    SEND THIS TO THE WHITE HOUSE "STOOL PIGEON DEPT" AND TELL THEM HARRY BOY SAID IT, SEND IT IN CARE OF "STOOL PIGEON CZAR"
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    How do you know that? What measures are you using? I've lived under five different health care systems. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Whether you use accessibility or longevity as a measure, the plan we have in the US is not the best. The fact is other countries with their national health care plans do far more on the preventative front and, as a result, people live longer and are healthier.

    That's absurd, and you can't cite one nonpartisan fact to support that.

    Well, there's certainly a political struggle going on, and just as the right succeeded in silencing Dan Rather, taking over the radio, and getting their own tv station, now liberals are going to play their version of the game. This game has been going on for decades, and you're old enough to know that.
  12. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    So you're saying that they should wait to be re-active once the plan is implemented instead of being pro-active? Many like myself have read the plan, or major parts of it and don't like it but I'd rather voice my displeasure now rather than wait until it potentially could be too late to undo the damage. I'm no more a tool or stooge of the insurance companies than those in favor are tools/stooges of the unions like SEIU. You can have valid reasons for opposing it.
    Do we need reform? Absolutely but not enough to throw the baby out with the bath water. 85% of the public is covered. Let's find a way to cover the other 15% without destroying the entire system and 1/6 of the economy. With the scope of this, it warrants reflection and I hope we can all agree that it shouldn't be rushed. I'd like to see reforms on the state levels, sort of each as a mini-lab with 50 different models and see which ones work to ensure wider access without bankrupting the state.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I agree, but are you so riled up about it that you would engage in disruptive behavior? Surely, you've read about rumors that the plans will lead to euthanasia of the elderly, allow the government to read your medical records, and force you to go to a doctor you don't want to go to. That's all b.s.

    The plan basically does what you're saying. That's why many liberals, including myself, are not pleased. Basically, the 85% of people who currently have insurance will still have the same insurance, unless their employer chooses to change plans. The only big improvement will be in the area of preventative care, which the plan will promote (which is typical of national insurance plans; that's why longevity tends to be longer where national health care is enacted). I would also add that these proposals have been in the works since the 1970s, so the plan is not being rushed. Most of thinking behind it is quite old, and what is going on now is simply the compromises necessary to get anything done in DC.
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I know health care needs fixing but we don't want to be another "Canada, Cuba, UK"

    The AARP members are right now scaring the sh!t out of the Obama White House and all of his Groupies, there are millions of "Old Bastards" in America and they want nothing to do with Obama's Cuba Health Care, they are afraid that Obama Will Kill Them.

    There are also millions of poor people on Medicaid who get better Health/Dental care than Elizabeth Taylor does, they want nothing to do with Obama's sh!t either.
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  15. wistahpatsfan

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    This whole thing sucks.

    No one seems to have the balls to admit that neither the government nor the "private sector" (which can't seem to exist without government subsidy) has the ability to solve any problems. The sh!theads in charge on either side are incompetent and unimaginative. Buth depend on PR campaigns to sway public opinion and neither one offers adequate solutions.

    I think we might be entering an era when we'll be at the mercy of dim-witted, cowardly fools who somehow were able to rise to positions of power and , once they got there, have no clue about how to get anything done. That goes for the President, corporate welfare whores and the public in general. It's a result of the ascent of the "lockdown generation" who are now coming of age. Psyche majors who have gone into marketing and advertising and are now bleeding their influence into the realms of big business and government. They get to the top, look around at the zombie population who are more than willing to do anything they're told and say to themselves, "Oh baby! This is going to be easy!"

    There are plenty of willing fools on both sides. Liberal Obamaphiles who will agree with anything the White House says or does. Conservatives who obey their masters (big pharma and th insurance companies who own the hospitals and doctors) who tell them that government healthcare is "socialist". Cash for Clunkers, cap & trade and half-assed healthcare proposals from the WH. Dittoheads who think Obama's a foreigner and a traitor.

    Smoeone friggin shoot me. Jefferson was right. We're waaaaaay overdue for a revolution. Blow the whole thing up!
  16. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr


    They're not fools. All you need to do is to follow the money to see how smart they are. That's entirely the problem, though, as money and lobbying corrupt the system.

    As for solving problems, we've got useful models all over the western world to base an effective, inexpensive system on. We're too chicken to nationalize it, though. To our own detriment.
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Good Work Wistah,
    Health care needs fixing, it should be done by both partys, the bill should be read & reread, the people should be informed as to what is in the bill then and only then should it be passed.

    WE DON'T WANT COMMUNIST HEALTH CARE WE DON'T WANT THE GOVERNMENT DECIDING WHO LIVES AND WHO DIES, I DON'T WANT THAT FILTHY OLD DIRTY SOCIALIST BAG PELOSI TO HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE HEALTH CARE OF MYSELF OR MY FAMILY

    GOD DAMN OBAMA AND HIS FAWNING SLOPPING BALL SUCKING GROUPIES CAN KISS MY OLD WHITE A$S, F-CK THEM.

    A REVOLUTION IS BUILDING AND THE OLD BASTARDS OF AMERICA ARE GOING TO START FIGHTING.
    YouTube - Kathy Castor - Healthcare Town Hall Meeting in Tampa - 8/6
  18. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I don't like it when professional organizers purposely stir up people by using lies and misrepresentations, but really Patters you make it sound like no one could otherwise ever be upset. There are legitimate and genuine concerns for people and believe it or not :cool:they just may attend some of theses meetings on their own to express those concerns. BTW dangerous left wing unions reportedly are organizing "mobs" as well to “balance” the outrage. Do you have a problem with that?
  19. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I've been a Union Man all my life (Teamsters) and I'm ashamed of those Obama Union Thugs breaking up this meeting of Americans who are voicing their constitutional rights.

    GOD DAMN SOCIALIST OBAMA
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  20. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I disagree. The healthcare system should be done by smart people through research and science...not politicians who can't do any other job if their lives depended on it.

    I'm an old bastid, too. But I don't buy into your cut-and-paste talking points about "comminist health care"...that over-simplified crap. Don't buy it.
  21. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    No, my approach would be to calmly tick off my reasons for opposing it and ask the representative to counter those points. The squeaky wheel may get the grease but disrupting is the act of a lost cause, which this isn't. I've posted previously why I don't have a problem with the provision re end of life issues for the elderly especially since we went through this in my family several years ago and decisions made ahead of time saved much aggravation.
    As for having to change doctors, if he opts out of a network it could cause me to change docs....

    What many have a problem with is if the public option is cheaper than the private insurance companies ( gov't does not have to make a profit), it will force the private carriers out of business. Yes, you cna keep your existing plan but if the company isn;t there any more, it's a moot point. Having August to review and dissect the plan cna only benefit us all.
    One other point to consider. If you're going to cover illegal aliens under the plan, make them pay for it. They should be paying taxes if they are going to take advantage of gov't benefits. That's a whole other discussion.
  22. Fogbuster

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr


    "Being told" to get angry???? I don't think Americans -- or anyone else, for that matter -- need to be "told" to do ANYTHING. Maybe you, Patters, need to read what the latest incarnation of the Pelosi-Obama-Reid "health care" plan -- a plan that these muckety muck privileged-class rulers of America will NEVER EVER have to endure, as they can always take one of the government flying Rolls Royce air planes to go to Switzerland or where ever to get THEIR health needs taken care of..... ALL on the the TAX-PAYERS' dime!!!! :steamed: -- has to offer. A few key points of interest to tax-paying Americans:

    Little gems from the Health Care Bill
    Fun things in the House Health Care Bill - AR15.COM ^

    Posted on Friday, July 24, 2009 3:12:23 PM by CMS

    • Page 16: States that if you have insurance at the time of the bill becoming law and change, you will be required to take a similar plan. If that is not available, you will be required to take the gov option!
    • Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
    • Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
    • Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
    • Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
    • Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
    • Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Healthcard.


    • Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for "electronic funds transfer"....

    Ques: By whom and to whom is this "transfer" made? and for what purpose?



    • Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (example: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
    • Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
    • Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
    • Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
    • Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
    • Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
    • Page 124: No company can sue the government for price-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
    • Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
    • Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
    • Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
    • Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll

    Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
    • Page 167: Any individual who doesnt' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
    • Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
    • Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
    • Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
    • Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
    • Page 241: Doctors: no matter what speciality you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
    • Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
    • Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
    • Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
    • Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
    • Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
    • Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
    • Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
    • Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
    • Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
    • Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
    • Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
    • Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
    • Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
    • Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
    • Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
    • Page 425: Goverment provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
    • Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
    • Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
    • Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
    • Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
    • Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
    • Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
    • Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.
  23. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    We have done this dance before, before you blindly post lies.. try to read the actual bill it is none of this.. the dance of the rightie lemmings continue.. this was debunked in another thread...

    Read everyone of these points in the bill then come back with your tail between your legs... partisan blogs are not the answer.. this crap has been circulating in various forms all over the internet.. they are lies..

    Should probably credit this source as it is obviously not your work... which right wing blog is it.. wingnuts.com.. obamaisakenyan.com.. the dailyrightielemmingreport.com.. rightwingtalkingpoints.com...

    you act just like some of our elected officials, they do not read it and trust the interpretation of others... in this case the right wing bloggers... no agenda here..

    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  24. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    The European systems, which are rated as good as ours, reduce the role insurance co's and as a result, they cost half as much as ours. If we're to lower costs, we need to do something, and preventative care and the public option are the two key approaches in the current plan. The public option would mostly be for lower income people, though insurance companies might be able to offer supplemental insurance on top of that. The proposed plan would certainly affect insurance companies. They would be under more pressure to reduce costs, but would also get millions of new customers. I wouldn't worry about them.

    Smart illegals pay taxes, since failure to do so is the easiest way to get them deported I believe. By providing a legal path for illegals, we will be in a much stronger position to regulate their behavior vis-a-vis taxes, health care, etc. Right now, illegals do their best to stay under the radar, which means that they go to emergency rooms more or wait until their illnesses have progressed and become more costly to deal with.
  25. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    This goes to my point about the claim that "you can keep your own insurance". If they go away, it becomes irrelevant...

    Absolutely, but p170 appears to my reading to allow coverage without cost for them. Many illegals are part of the underground economy being paid in cash ( it has sunk many a Cabinet nominee of BOTH parties for paying household help in cash and not taking out taxes) and my point is that they want to partake of the benefits, they ought to pay into the system, as a matter of fairness. My position on amnesty/immigration is more liberal than my other positions simply from an economic standpoint. They're here and not leaving, integrate them into American society, collect taxes and set up secure borders for the future. Does it reward bad behavior in the past? Yes but if anyone has a better solution, I'm all ears.....
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2009
  26. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    People get angry because they are stirred up by corporate interests. Americans for Prosperity, the group that is helping disrupt town hall meetings on health care, is funded by the oil industry(!) - Exxon Mobil and Koch Industries - and is run by a guy who rallied Christians to push for energy de-regulation at the bidding of Enron.

    These are not grassroots movements.

    Think Progress Maddow Exposes Oil Industry Backing Of Astroturf Lobbying Firm Americans For Prosperity
  27. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    It's Growing the white house is starting to get scared now all the Democrats dirty tricks will start to come out, Pelosi/Reid have already started with their nasty name calling and the dirty old hag Boxer is even insulting the old AARP people for the way they dress, if you read this Barbara I myself (Harry Boy) think you look and dress like a cheap old Two Bit Frisco Whore.
  28. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    I thought Norway had an excellent plan. When I lived there, the government provided the basic insurance, the main drawback of which was availability (in which the US ranks first), meaning that you might have to wait weeks or months for noncritical surgery. But, Norway also allowed private supplemental insurance, which my employer provided. This insurance offered, among other things, greater availability, coverage of elective surgery that wasn't covered by the national plan, and private hospital rooms. Even without that insurance, I would have had it pretty nice. I once saw a tv report on disabled Norwegians attending a program on the shores of Turkey to help them improve their physical skills.

    I bet we agree on this question. We should have a fairly rigorous program that requires people to learn English, to pay taxes, to obey the law, and to otherwise become responsible citizens. In turn, they should be put on the path to citizenship.

    I think the same model should be used with all poor and struggling people. Require them to get job training, mental health treatment, and obey the law in order to get anything but the barest benefits. Unfortunately, job training, mental health treatment, and daycare cost a lot of money, and the taxpayers aren't willing to pay.
  29. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Rookie

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    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Sounds like a good program BUT will that type of supplemental be allowed under the proposal in Congress?It would take a careful read to determine it. In Great Britain, if you go outside the NHS system, you are excluded from all care. It acts as a deterrent to privatization and IIRC private insurance for profit is prohibited. Only the very rich can afford to go outside the system. I believe that if HR3200 is enacted into law, you will see something similar here with someplace off the east coast (Bahamas? Bermuda? Trinidad? Dominican Republic?) setting themselves up as the place for medical tourism where the well to do who don't want to wait for bypasses and hip replacements can go for treatment..if they are willing to pay.

    We do....
  30. KontradictioN

    KontradictioN Do you even lift? PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Re: As the Dems try to ram through socialized (Cuban style) medicine, people are angr

    Why am I even planning on going into the military a year from now when I can just do what the other 45 million ILLEGAL immigrants are doing and just sit on my hands, not do anything, and then when my hand falls off from sitting on it too much I can go see a doctor and have the government cover the bill. Nice!

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