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As Democrats See Security Gains in Iraq, Tone Shifts

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Fogbuster, Nov 26, 2007.

  1. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    .

    Hold on, everyone: the war in Iraq is suddenly going to be "cool" again!!! Watch Hillary and all the Dems claim all the credit:

    [size=+3]As Democrats See Security Gains in Iraq, Tone Shifts[/size]

    As violence declines in Baghdad, the leading Democratic presidential candidates are undertaking a new and challenging balancing act on Iraq: acknowledging that success, trying to shift the focus to the lack of political progress there, and highlighting more domestic concerns like health care and the economy.

    Former Senator John Edwards regularly brings up Iraq, but focuses on his opponents’ judgment.

    Advisers to Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama say that the candidates have watched security conditions improve after the troop escalation in Iraq and concluded that it would be folly not to acknowledge those gains. At the same time, they are arguing that American casualties are still too high, that a quick withdrawal is the only way to end the war and that the so-called surge in additional troops has not paid off in political progress in Iraq.

    But the changing situation suggests for the first time that the politics of the war could shift in the general election next year, particularly if the gains continue. While the Democratic candidates are continuing to assail the war — a popular position with many of the party’s primary voters — they run the risk that Republicans will use those critiques to attack the party’s nominee in the election as defeatist and lacking faith in the American military.

    If security continues to improve, President Bush could become less of a drag on his party, too, and Republicans may have an easier time zeroing in on other issues, such as how the Democrats have proposed raising taxes in difficult economic times.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/u...WAY&adxnnlx=1195930847-xrlMleXS/EfHPOXHzQDwig



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    Last edited: Nov 26, 2007
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Although things have quieted down, I still do not believe it is permanent, wait and see what happens when we start to withdraw troops and take the so called "boot" off of the throat..
  3. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    exactly... what wife beater is going to smack his wife around while the cops are at the front door?... if they're not seperated, of course it's going to happen all over again shortly after the cops leave...

    as has been said... it's only "quieting" in iraq because they're all already dead, seperated, or left the country... there wasn't going to be an infinite amount of sustained violence to measure... hello?
  4. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We're Winning

    Oh Lord

    :bricks:
  5. jack

    jack Rookie

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    With ethnic animosities,blood vandettas and simmering religion-based hatreds, it's slightly better than it was a year ago, but thats partly because of ethnic cleansing and the fact that we've essentially declared southern iraq ''Indian country'' and completly abandoned it now that the british have wisely left.
    The indigenous politicaly social forces in iraq are biding their time, and as anyone knows the literature on civil wars and ethnic conflict can tell you it will explode in due time...
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Agenda Boy at his finest. Sure though, you really want us to succeed there. The gains we've made were "luck" last week, and are now due to everyone in Iraq being "dead, seperated, or left the country". Of course it has nothing to do with the surge, Petreous' strategy, and the incredible job our hero's (uncourageous tools to some) in uniform are doing. Nope, none at all. :rolleyes:


    The gains there have been excellent and encouraging. However, whether or not they can be sustained is still up in the air. There is still alot that needs to be done, both politically, and socially. Employment opportunities, reconstruction, political reconciliation, and the ethnic integration of security forces at the local level will now be key. If we can somehow gain some headway on those issues in the next 6-12 months, then I think Iraq will have a better than 50/50 chance at stability. If we don't move forward in those area's, then it'll probably revert to a chaotic situation. I have a cautious optimism, and certainly no one should be glorifying what is a fragile window of stability.
  7. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Again, do you know what you are talking about, or are you, like most in here, simply repeating whatever talking point the left, or the right, has been uttering in print, or on TV? When you say it's "slightly better than a year ago", and other asorted TP's, I have my doubts about the objectivity of your position.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course the tone shifts. If fewer Americans and civilians are dying, that's good, but that doesn't negate the severe political and economic problems in Iraq, not to mention the very high economic cost of the war to us. It doesn't negate the fact that there are reports that Al Qaeda is gaining ground in Afghanistan or the fact that there continues to be death and destruction in Iraq. Nonetheless, with things quieter in Iraq, it's a very good time for the Dems to talk about other issues and there's naturally less urgency on Iraq, though the problem is still there.
  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Looks like some people like good news but others do not. We will see what we will see, but I'm putting my money on a new Iraq coming out of this, one that will set the tone for the entire Middle East. Democracy is a foreign concept in the ME; only Turkey has any semblance of it, and they are half-considered part of Europe because of their degree of democratization.

    When people have the freedom to choose what course they want to go, they tend to choose the best way. At the least they know they are responsible for their own future, and that alone makes for sensible choices being made.


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  10. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    I love the spin...........

    Denial is more then an river in Africa fellas. :rolleyes:



    p.s. A reminder....... winning, improved security, reduced casualties are GOOD things and t be celebrated and capitalized on. Gains are just that gains, then can be temporary or longer term, depending on what we do from here.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I hope you're right, but I don't think you are. If we want democracy in Iraq, we have to pull out and be prepared to give them massive financial aid so that the root cause of violence and hate (poverty) can be addressed. I do not think we will do for Iraq what the world did for Germany and Japan, in part because we have not built a proper coalition and are unwilling to share the economic opportunity (i.e., share the opportunity to exploit Iraqi oil).

    Democracy and education go hand in hand. You can't have a good democracy without an educated public, but the odds of a benign dictator seem so remote that an ineffective democracy is probably the best choice for even a country that has not been able to indoctrinate its people with a reasonable set of values.
  12. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So pull out, throw massive amounts of money at the problem, and hope for the best. Sounds like your answer for everything.
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I think it's better to spend money to help people rather than to kill them. I guess we disagree.
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, we're spending money just to kill people. :rolleyes: Here's a newsflash Patters, throwing money at problems doesn't make them go away.
  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    $$$$KATRINA$$$$ (GIN DRUGS AND HAIRDO'S)
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How much money you putting on this?? Better not let Daddy Moon know, would prefer you tithe your cash than bet..
  17. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Money alone will never solve the problem. The root problem is a lack of love and understanding between people. A megalomaniac dictator can never solve this problem. Only an educated, informed, and wise populace can solve their own situation. It starts from the individual. Knowing and living for true love is the only answer. All else is just a partial temporary band-aid, at best.


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  18. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    As if you would even begin to know.


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