Arrington: Should the Pats move him to Safety in 2011?

[Off The Grid]

Merriweather has pro-bowl physical skills, but it's troubling that he still is not mastering the mental aspect of the game and assimilating into the "Patriot way". Someone in another thread described him best IMO as the LoMo of the defense. I'm sure the Pats would resign Merriweather at a team friendly deal, but I think those of us who assume he's gone feel that it is likely other teams are going to be more willing to overlook his mental short-comings and place a higher value on him.

Exactly.

If Tebucky Jones fetched the equivalent of a 3rd, a 5th, and a 7th...

 

[Off The Grid]

On Arrington: Why make him the safety when he is already our CB/LDE? But seriously, he's made such great strides since he was brought in last year. He's grown into his role very well, and next year having him (or Bodden, I suppose) as the 3 with Bulter at 4 is a luxury most teams wish they had. Leave him in the CB role, he's doing it very well.

On Meriweather: I know I am a huge supporter for the guy, but I don't agree with the "LoMo on D" assessment. Meri has never been benched for stretches of games like LoMo, and his work ethic/toughness has never been questioned like Maroney.

I do agree that last years Pro Bowl nod probably went to his head which lead to his early season problems. And sure, his running into McCourty was a bad play. But if we're going to bash everyone for one bad play we'll hate our entire team, and most players from the past.

The haters on this website gloat over everything he does that supports their opinion of him, and continue to gloss over what he does well. Sure, he almost beheaded Todd Heap...how many big catches have been made over the middle since then? Yes, he took a bad angle at CJ "One Of The Fastest Guys In The League" Spiller and on the McCourty mistake. He also made some solid tackles on Kunh the other night. But this place can get so Monkey See Monkey Do over Meriweather when the haters start coming out of the woodwork and it gets to the point where you'd think he belongs on our practice squad. It's just piling on BS that leads to negativity like when reading the Game Thread.

Why did Meriweather get to be PatsFans #1 villian? Why do posters still call him "Stomper", but don't say that about Randy Moss? Moss put a guy in the hospital stomping him...Meri got into a team fight and stomped the guy 3 times while trying to defend another teammate. Besides that one incident, he has NEVER been involved in anything negative. When do we start bashing Brady for ditching Pregnant Bridget, or Big Vince for taking out JP Losman's knee?

I just don't get this place sometimes.

EASY, there, big fella!!

I've made it pretty clear that I LIKE Stomper...In fact, I've been one of the very few backing the guy up, all year. I like Tebucky Jones, too, but I LOVED that trade of him. Trading Brandon Meriweather is something that should be given serious consideration, for a number of very good reasons. But we certainly agree about the Haters, who often render this landscape uninhabitable.

 

[Off The Grid]

Relax people.

Meriweather has by and large done his job this season. He has been the deep safety who makes sure things don't get behind the kids. Compared to the level of execution everywhere else on this D, he's done an OK job.

Where is the thread criticizing McCourty for getting beat by James Jones? What about Ninkovich? What about Arrington and Chung? Banta-Cain should have "learned" by now to stop committing stupid personal fouls at the end of games, but he still does it.

Its not that I'm a big fan of Meriweather, I like Arrington more to be honest. But I can look at every player and see what they're doing right and what they're doing wrong. Why do you all have to put 21 players on a pedestal and crucify the last one?

Simmer down.

Objective criticism of Brandon Merriweather ~ who I like ~ is completely warranted.

 

[Off The Grid]

Bingo, since when is having too many CBs a bad thing? Arrington has played great, starting the majority of the games opposite of McCourty.

I am in the Merriweather is just a little off category but he plays well enough and their is a strong possibility that without a CBA player to player trades will not be allowed.

Good point.

But I assume we can make trades up until the end of the fiscal year, yes?

When is that? March 1st??

 

[Off The Grid]

What do you mean the cupboards are bare? The Pats have Butler and Wilhite who have both improved significantly and are more than capable at covering the slot receiver or even being spot starters. Not to mention that they are still very young.

The Pats ALSO have Thad Turner on the practice squad and the recently added Tony Carter.

Sorry, but it is foolishness to write off Butler and Wilhite at this stage.

Especially after the improvements they showed this year.

I agree 100%.

We've got:

#1 ~ Devin McCourty ~ Ascending Star
#2 ~ Leigh Bodden ~ Above Average
#3 ~ Darius Butler ~ High Upside + Dubious Results
#4 ~ Kyle Arrington ~ Scrapper. Can Start, if needs be, as he's shown.
#5 ~ Jon Wilhite ~ Scrapper. FAR better than given credit for by most.

Seems to me the CupBoard's FULL.

Which is not to say I wouldn't love to hit on a late Rounder or two.

#3 ~ The Slot ~ is a starting position, and I think Butler will succeed at it...But there's not reason not to take a flier or two out.

 

[Off The Grid]

My humble apologies for the BLOB of posts. Such is my schedule.

But what a tremendous Thread. Thanks for the great reading, gents, whether or not I agreed with you.

 

[blackglass3]

EASY, there, big fella!!

I've made it pretty clear that I LIKE Stomper...In fact, I've been one of the very few backing the guy up, all year. I like Tebucky Jones, too, but I LOVED that trade of him. Trading Brandon Meriweather is something that should be given serious consideration, for a number of very good reasons. But we certainly agree about the Haters, who often render this landscape uninhabitable.

Nah, I wasn't talking about you; you're not one of the people on this site who don't post for weeks and then jump on here the second Meri makes a mistake to gloat about how you've been saying it all along. And I understand what you mean... (almost) any piece is tradable for the right price.

 

[Triumph]

What do you mean the cupboards are bare? The Pats have Butler and Wilhite who have both improved significantly and are more than capable at covering the slot receiver or even being spot starters. Not to mention that they are still very young.

The Pats ALSO have Thad Turner on the practice squad and the recently added Tony Carter.

Sorry, but it is foolishness to write off Butler and Wilhite at this stage. Especially after the improvements they showed this year.

I think youre a wrong and Wilhite will be gone.

Its year 4 next season and time to cash that chip in. Wilhite hadnt improved enough to start if the unmentionable happened to McDroy or Arrington. Butler is kept another season, but he still hasnt won his job back this year. For all of Arringtons faults, he is still the better option and Belichick knows it.

 

[patman52]

I like Page, Chung and Sanders for our three safeties next year.

Bodden, McCourty and Butler at Corner.

I wished BB would have kept Merriweather at corner. To me, his struggles in pursuit are his biggest problem playing more man on, smaller zone responsibility would minimize that.

 

[37Harrison]

So I only read the first page of this thread but I have to question those that want to move Bodden to safety. Seriously? WTF?

 

[DaBruinz]

Nfl.com lists Kyle at 5 "10 196 / Ed at 5"11 200..... play making would fall under my skill comment...

Don't care what NFL.com says. I used their combine/pro day numbers. Those have the correct heights. NFL.COM rounds up and uses the weights that the teams give them.. I am fairly certain that they don't ever change..

 

[DaBruinz]

I think youre a wrong and Wilhite will be gone.

Its year 4 next season and time to cash that chip in. Wilhite hadnt improved enough to start if the unmentionable happened to McDroy or Arrington. Butler is kept another season, but he still hasnt won his job back this year. For all of Arringtons faults, he is still the better option and Belichick knows it.

And you know this how??? Wilhite made tons of progress and was very good in the slot before going down to injury. And that gave Butler the chance to improve. And improve he has.

To say that Butler hasn't won his job back is just plain foolishness on your part. His job is CB. He's in his 2nd year, and though he had some down times to start the season, he's bounced back and has performed very well as the #3 corner. And he's gotten reps at RCB when Arrington went down and he held his own.

Training Camp will decide who is here and who is gone. You've presented absolutely nothing to show that Wilhite will be gone other than your unfounded opinion. Wilhite has proven adept on special teams and he's proven he is able to handle the slot corner position.

Even if Wilhite is the #5 CB, he's probably going to be better than anyone taken after the 3rd round. Which is where I would start looking at a CB in 2011 because there are other areas that need to be addressed. Mainly the O-line, OLB, and RDE.

 

[DaBruinz]

I like Page, Chung and Sanders for our three safeties next year.

Bodden, McCourty and Butler at Corner.

I wished BB would have kept Merriweather at corner. To me, his struggles in pursuit are his biggest problem playing more man on, smaller zone responsibility would minimize that.

Page is a UFA. Retaining him probably determines what draft pick the Pats have to give KC for compensation.

McGowan is also a UFA. The Pats also have 2 youngsters on the IR right now in Lockett and Barrett. The Pats also have Sergio Brown and Ross Ventrone. Brown is signed for another 3 years and Ventrone is likely to get a futures contract.

The only way I see the Pats bringing in another safety is if they move Meriweather. And I can see them moving Meriweather to someone like San Fran to add a 2012 draft pick. But that also depends on whether they like a couple of safeties in the draft who could be better than Meriweather.

 

[Kontradiction]

Comparing the Saints Defense to the Pats defense is your first mistake.

When a player "freelances" in the Pats defense, bad things happen. One of the core tenants of the BB defense is that you do your job. If you are freelancing, then you aren't doing your job. You will be out of position. And, if you're out of position, then you are creating a hole that can be exploited by the offense.

Rodney Harrison used to freelance all the time in San Diego. He changed his whole style of play when he came to the Pats and he was better off for it.

What is clear to me is that Meriweather doesn't have the recognition of opposing offenses to be adept at freelancing. Not the way that Darren Sharper does. In fact, I'd say his play recognition is about the same as it was when he was a rookie.

I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, I would prefer it if Meriweather DIDN'T freelance. I've said that before. What I was doing was giving a situation in which Meriweather freelancing wouldn't be a terrible thing and the closest safety and defense in the league within the last year that I could compare him to was Sharper and the 2009 Saints.

 

[Triumph]

And you know this how??? Wilhite made tons of progress and was very good in the slot before going down to injury. And that gave Butler the chance to improve. And improve he has.

Wilhite is a jag and provides nothing in terms of a backup CB if the players ahead of him go down due to injury. History has shown that CB is a hard hit position for NE every season.

To say that Butler hasn't won his job back is just plain foolishness on your part. His job is CB. He's in his 2nd year, and though he had some down times to start the season, he's bounced back and has performed very well as the #3 corner. And he's gotten reps at RCB when Arrington went down and he held his own.

BFD

How has Butler improved when Arrington goes right back to the other CB spot as the starter every game? Belichick starts the best players in terms of practice, classroom and on field performance. If your claims were true, we would see Butler starting and Arrington in a reserve roll. Thats clearly not the way it is.

Losing your starting job is not improving no matter how its spun and the Pats D has been better ever since Arrington took over.

Training Camp will decide who is here and who is gone. You've presented absolutely nothing to show that Wilhite will be gone other than your unfounded opinion. Wilhite has proven adept on special teams and he's proven he is able to handle the slot corner position.

Look, Bodden will be 30 next season. NE will have 6 picks in the first 3 round and could add 6 key players. Wilhite is not a key player on this team. Somebody has to go.

Even if Wilhite is the #5 CB, he's probably going to be better than anyone taken after the 3rd round. Which is where I would start looking at a CB in 2011 because there are other areas that need to be addressed. Mainly the O-line, OLB, and RDE.

How do you know Wilhite would be better? How do you know that BB will wait until the 3rd round to choose a CB?

Unfounded opinion.

 

[Deus Irae]

I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, I would prefer it if Meriweather DIDN'T freelance. I've said that before. What I was doing was giving a situation in which Meriweather freelancing wouldn't be a terrible thing and the closest safety and defense in the league within the last year that I could compare him to was Sharper and the 2009 Saints.

Harrison freelanced plenty in the Patriots system. That was a topic of discussion this week, in fact. The two real differences were that Harrison was a better player than Meriweather for much of his time in New England, and that the other players in the defensive secondary at the time were experienced enough to adjust to what Rodney was doing.

 

[Kontradiction]

Harrison freelanced plenty in the Patriots system. That was a topic of discussion this week, in fact. The two real differences were that Harrison was a better player than Meriweather for much of his time in New England, and that the other players in the defensive secondary at the time were experienced enough to adjust to what Rodney was doing.

Yep. That's the point I was trying to drive home earlier in the thread.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yep. That's the point I was trying to drive home earlier in the thread.

Whoops! I grabbed the wrong quote. I was trying to quote DaBruinz' line of "Rodney Harrison used to freelance all the time in San Diego. He changed his whole style of play when he came to the Pats and he was better off for it.". Sorry... I had a bit of an accident yesterday, and I'm a bit off today, as a result.


Glad you and I agree, though.

 

[Off The Grid]

EASY, there, big fella!!

I've made it pretty clear that I LIKE Stomper...In fact, I've been one of the very few backing the guy up, all year. I like Tebucky Jones, too, but I LOVED that trade of him. Trading Brandon Meriweather is something that should be given serious consideration, for a number of very good reasons. But we certainly agree about the Haters, who often render this landscape uninhabitable.

Nah, I wasn't talking about you; you're not one of the people on this site who don't post for weeks and then jump on here the second Meri makes a mistake to gloat about how you've been saying it all along. And I understand what you mean... (almost) any piece is tradable for the right price.

Gotcha!! Thanks, man.

And: My compliments on the "almost" stipulation!!

 

[Fencer]

Arrington's future

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england...727627-improve-defense-page2.html#post2452942 MaineMan argues that Arrington is more of a safety than a CB. He has a point.

Umm -- how are his tackling angles on Downs 1-3?