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Arizona DC says Brady tipping plays?


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On 12/7/2003 and 1/14/2012 you would've been wrong ;)

Ah yes, the two punts he has made. 42 yards per punt, net, career average. Not bad!

Then there's also his one career pass reception, for 23 yards, on 12/22/2001, from "QB" Kevin Faulk.
 
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Isn't "tipping" a play when a player does something like stand in a certain way or move his head or look in a particular direction or something? Lining up in the shotgun or over center is more like "the odds are that one thing or another will happen if they do that." If the Pats were indeed running every time TB was over center and passing every time he was in shotgun, isn't that more like bad game planning and not "tipping??

pretty much

its easier to explain tipping in baseball with pitchers, because some(especially younger ones) have a tendency to use a different arm motion or stride perhaps for different pitches, or even rely on an 'out' pitch when they behind in the count....making deception impossible.


to that point...the 'having hernandez tight on run plays' comment would make sense...but he also plays tight on passing plays...

so horton is full of crap
 
Horton must be oversimplifying it, because "they always passed from the shotgun and ran from under center" just isn't true. I'd love for that to gain traction, though - would make for a pretty nasty play action.
 
Translation: That was the most predictable gameplan I've ever seen.
 
they can talk.....because whatever it was, it worked in the end

Barely, Yep let the mediots continue the NFL has figured out the Pats O rant. Then next week, "SB contenders". Geez, cant the Pats just LOSE a game. By 2 pts no less. PPl just love to hate us.
 
Someone needs to tell this guy to move on-I mean Pats played about as bad as you can get on offense and they still had a chance to win in the end. Pats not as bad as they looked and AZ certainly didn't win that game divisively .

This. I suppose tipping is what cause WW, Gronk, LLoyd............to drop/miss the ball umpteen times.
 
1. Kudos to Reiss for actually breaking down the actual plays - run to pass based on formation. I fully expect some ESPN "expert" to jump on Horton's comments as fact and we will undoubtedly hear something about Brady being past his prime, overrated, being too obvious without actually verifying facts because that would at least take an extra 30 seconds.
2. Are you serious Horton? When Brady is under center, its a run! Did he really say this? So not one play-action? Either he's talking a little too much bravado after the win and will soon be humbled or they have a great collection of talent on defense that is playing well despite their DC. what NFL DC would operate like that?
 
Translation: That was the most predictable gameplan I've ever seen.

I don't think it was great playcalling on any level, but I also think that the whole 'poor playcalling' thing is getting to be a bit overblown too.

There's a reason for everything, and the possibility exists that they were doing what they thought worked best for that specific opponent, not to mention looking a bit ahead to a huge game with BAL too.

If you read Curran's miscues article, it was much more about the incredibly poor execution by the players than it was the poor playcalling in my opinion.

Just about every single offensive player had multiple mistakes on every possible level.

There's also the fact that even at the end Gostkowski should have been able to handle a FG that was barely 40+ yards out (or in 7/10 tries he should, as those are his percentages/stats from that distance) that was dead centered with no wind.

That, and the extremely poor blocking on the punt from the endzone by board extroirdanaire Nate Ebner, were the 2 biggest plays of the game.

It also didn't help that Brady's pass was tipped, thus leading to an INT, multiple balls were dropped, Gronk and his grouping of miscues on the final series (which not only removed the winning TD, but also took the penalty which changed it from having the ball spotted on the 18 yd line to the 23), Welker, Llyod, the horrible offensive line blocking, Arrington's atrocious tackling, the Hernandez injury, etc, etc....

This was more than bad playcalling, this was an absolute horrible, ridiculous effort from everyone combined, with the exception of some of the defensive players.
 
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can't wait for the signs on the walls of the restaurants at Patriot Place...

Tipping is not just a city in China

..uh, yes, waiter...I'm ready...two bowls of hot and sour soup,spare ribs and sweet and sour chicken over rice...oh..and here's your tip...plant your corn early....use it, it can work for you...I'll be here all week...
 
This just another example of how horrible of a coach BB and how horrible he is at disguising playes.

Here is another one. If it is 4th and long and Mesko is on the field it is very predictable they are going to punt. :)
 
The game plan was so predictable they only were able to rack up 387 yards, the most the Cards have allowed since playing the 9ers in the middle of last season. It's like they were in the huddle!!!

We lost because we turned the ball over in really bad spots and had a few execution hiccups that killed drives. People predicting the demise of the offense are so far off the mark it's insane.
 
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D & C spent the entire morning on this subject as if the facts supported the initial claim.
 
The game plan was so predictable they only were able to rack up 387 yards, the most the Cards have allowed since playing the 9ers in the middle of last season. It's like they were in the huddle!!!

We lost because we turned the ball over in really bad spots and had a few execution hiccups that killed drives. People predicting the demise of the offense are so far off the mark it's insane.

Yeah, that is the stupid thing. The Pats had no problem moving the ball outside the 20s. It was near or in the red zone where they sputtered. Were they unpredictable outside the red zone and predictable inside the redzone?
 
Yeah, that is the stupid thing. The Pats had no problem moving the ball outside the 20s. It was near or in the red zone where they sputtered. Were they unpredictable outside the red zone and predictable inside the redzone?


Not to mention the loss of one of the focal points of our offense on the third play of the game.

I love the people who are *****ing because the offense hiccup'd when we lost one of the key players, as if they should have been 100% prepared to lose any player at any time without a hiccup. My god, people, get a grip.
 
it was so bad .. i had to change to the other station .. they get worse by the day .. unlistenable ..:cool:

Why the hell were you listening in the first place? It's miraculous they are still on the radio. It's been years since I tuned into their garbage.
 
Didn't Mike Reiss put this thing to bed with some pretty clear facts showing the DC was full of it?
 
In order for the defense to gain a meaningful advantage their would need to be a statistically significant difference in the PERCENTAGE of plays they ran or passed out of the shotgun vs under center because (assuming past is prologue) those percentages are the probability that the NEXT play is going to be pass or run. So let's look at that:

SHOTGUN
run 11/39 = 28.2%
pass 28/39 = 71.8%

UNDER CENTER
run 17/43 = 39.5%
pass 26/43 = 60.5%

So yes, statistically they do pass more out of the shotgun and run more from under center, but it's not such a huge disparity that defenses can just stack 8 or 9 in the box when Brady is under center - in fact he still passes well more than half the time from that formation. Perhaps the defenses can bet on a pass play when Brady is in the shotgun, but what defense doesn't already know the shotgun is usually a passing formation?

Hey, when Brady is on the field the Patriots are more than likely going to pass the ball. Stop the presses, we have hot breaking news! ;-)

I just looked at the Reiss stats on ESPN.
There is clearly an indication of run vs. pass based on the simple under center/shotgun breakdown.
Looking closer at Brady & 'tipping plays' - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Total run% = 29/80 = 36%
Total pass% = 51/80 = 64%

Shotgun run% = 9/47 = 19%
Shotgun pass% = 38/47 = 81%

Center run% = 20/33 = 61%
Center pass% = 13/33 = 39%

So, the Pats ran 36% of the time. However, when under center, that rate jumps to 61%.

The Pats passed 64% of the time. However, in the shotgun, that rate jumps to 81%.

At a minimum, they can see that the run rate varies between 19% in shotgun and 61% under center.

That ignores any other formation indications, like Hernandez lined up tight or in the slot. If what the coordinator said is correct, that could improve the odds further.

That type of information certainly helps a defense. Whatever they did certainly frustrated the Patriots offense.

That means the Patriots need to do a better job of running multiple plays out of a single formation.
 
Horton must be oversimplifying it, because "they always passed from the shotgun and ran from under center" just isn't true. I'd love for that to gain traction, though - would make for a pretty nasty play action.

Yes - in the interview he said 'When Tom Brady does "this" or when he does "that"....I know I'm saying "this" and "that", but for the casual fan...the Arizona fan...' and then gives the simplistic shotgun/pass etc explanation.
 
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