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Aren't we all going a little overboard?


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For everyone that is slamming me and my stance on the defense. DeOssie on WEEI today pretty much said the same thing that I am saying. He said how the offense/Brady is making things a lot easier for the defense. Also, saying that the Pats give up a ton of yards and depend on the turnover a lot, which could prove risky in the playoffs. I guess maybe I'm not the only one that isn't 100% confident in the defense yet.
 
the bolded quote is absolute rubbish...obviously you have no idea what the physical capabilities of this team are.

The secondary would get torched in a game in the Superdome by Brees and the Saints or in the Georgia dome by the Falcons and Ryan.
 
People should know better than to respond directly to the nonsense being peddled by guys like 'The Dynasty'.

They enjoy the what little attention they can garner on here by being deliberately obtuse and provocative - making mindless and speculative points - always making sure to put a negative spin on it.

Do yourselves a favor and just let this thread die.
 
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For everyone that is slamming me and my stance on the defense. DeOssie on WEEI today pretty much said the same thing that I am saying. He said how the offense/Brady is making things a lot easier for the defense. Also, saying that the Pats give up a ton of yards and depend on the turnover a lot, which could prove risky in the playoffs. I guess maybe I'm not the only one that isn't 100% confident in the defense yet.

I pretty much agree with what you wrote above. The offense is making it easier for the defense. The Pats (up until the last couple of games) were clearly giving up lots of yards (worst in the NFL). The Patriots have gotten a lot of turnovers (but not sure that they "depended" on the turnover). This could be risky in the playoffs. Most of us aren't "100% confident" in the defense yet.

I'm glad we found some common ground for agreement. Everybody happy? :singing:
 
People should know better than to respond directly to the nonsense being peddled by guys like 'The Dynasty'.

They enjoy the what little attention they can garner on here by being deliberately obtuse and provocative - making mindless and speculative points - always making sure to put a negative spin on it.

Do yourselves a favor and just let this thread die.

I am just being objective and a realist. The defense is not as good as some people think and are claiming them to be. This site is not just for the homers who can say how everything is so great and how fans should start booking their hotel rooms in Dallas.
 
I pretty much agree with what you wrote above. The offense is making it easier for the defense. The Pats (up until the last couple of games) were clearly giving up lots of yards (worst in the NFL). The Patriots have gotten a lot of turnovers (but not sure that they "depended" on the turnover). This could be risky in the playoffs. Most of us aren't "100% confident" in the defense yet.

I'm glad we found some common ground for agreement. Everybody happy? :singing:

Thank you for seeing what I am saying. I really am not a hater on the Patriots, I am a diehard fan and want the team to win. I am just pointing out what I observe.
 
Truth is the defense is young and not playoff tested........yet!!!
All part of maturation process. I am however optimistic with defense as they seem to keep focus and BB is still keeping them in position to make things happen.
 
For everyone that is slamming me and my stance on the defense. DeOssie on WEEI today pretty much said the same thing that I am saying. He said how the offense/Brady is making things a lot easier for the defense. Also, saying that the Pats give up a ton of yards and depend on the turnover a lot, which could prove risky in the playoffs. I guess maybe I'm not the only one that isn't 100% confident in the defense yet.

Anyone who is not an actual member of this Patriots team, and is 100% confident in this defense, needs to get their meds checked.
 
I guess maybe I'm not the only one that isn't 100% confident in the defense yet.

As stated previously, who is saying they are 100% confident in the defense? You appear to be saying it is lousy rather than serviceable and cannot slow a true passing offense. It did enough to beat the Colts, and it did enough to beat the Bolts. The Ravens aren't too shabby, nor are the Steelers, and it did enough to beat them as well. You have a season worth of wins to undercut your argument. Woulda, coulda, shoulda in those games is not realism, it is actually fantasy.

If the premise to your hypothetical is should the Pats offense melt down, then the defense cannot be counted on to shut out a team like the Saints, then that may be realistic. Those high-powered offenses will be slowed, not stopped by any NFL defense - nobody shuts them out. This young defense will not be as effective as a seasoned veteran defense might be in slowing a top-tier offense as it is still developing. It is designed to complement a great offense, not stand alone. If the offense fails, then the defense will likely not be enough to win.

But the reality is the offense is killing right now, and the defense is improving game-by-game without having to carry an under-performing offense. More turnovers, more stops. That is why the games are not as close as they have been. Wallowing in despair of the possibility of an off game by the offense is not realism, it is pessimism. Enjoy the ride for however long it lasts. You'll be happier for it.
 
As stated previously, who is saying they are 100% confident in the defense? You appear to be saying it is lousy rather than serviceable and cannot slow a true passing offense. It did enough to beat the Colts, and it did enough to beat the Bolts. The Ravens aren't too shabby, nor are the Steelers, and it did enough to beat them as well. You have a season worth of wins to undercut your argument. Woulda, coulda, shoulda in those games is not realism, it is actually fantasy.

If the premise to your hypothetical is should the Pats offense melt down, then the defense cannot be counted on to shut out a team like the Saints, then that may be realistic. Those high-powered offenses will be slowed, not stopped by any NFL defense - nobody shuts them out. This young defense will not be as effective as a seasoned veteran defense might be in slowing a top-tier offense as it is still developing. It is designed to complement a great offense, not stand alone. If the offense fails, then the defense will likely not be enough to win.

But the reality is the offense is killing right now, and the defense is improving game-by-game without having to carry an under-performing offense. More turnovers, more stops. That is why the games are not as close as they have been. Wallowing in despair of the possibility of an off game by the offense is not realism, it is pessimism. Enjoy the ride for however long it lasts. You'll be happier for it.

Yes, my thinking is that the defense is not good enough to be counted on to win a game if the offense for some reason in the playoffs has a bad day or is just stopped. Like you said this defense is built to complement the offense (for now), as they get more experienced I could see them being like the defenses in the SB years. Some of the flaws in the defense are they give up tons of yards, they are terrible on 3rd down and they depend on the turnover too much. Some people on this board and in the media have said anything less than the Super Bowl would be a disappointment. How can you expect to win a Super Bowl if your offense gets shut down, or not play to it's capabilities they have a defense that is not good enough to bail them out. I agree the defense is getting better each week and has been playing very well, but they are not good enough to to be depended on to win games for you if the offense has a sub par game.
 
Yes, my thinking is that the defense is not good enough to be counted on to win a game if the offense for some reason in the playoffs has a bad day or is just stopped. Like you said this defense is built to complement the offense (for now), as they get more experienced I could see them being like the defenses in the SB years. Some of the flaws in the defense are they give up tons of yards, they are terrible on 3rd down and they depend on the turnover too much. Some people on this board and in the media have said anything less than the Super Bowl would be a disappointment. How can you expect to win a Super Bowl if your offense gets shut down, or not play to it's capabilities they have a defense that is not good enough to bail them out. I agree the defense is getting better each week and has been playing very well, but they are not good enough to to be depended on to win games for you if the offense has a sub par game.
With the #1 seed almost sewn up and wins over every good team in the conference, of course anything less than a SB would be a disappointment.
Are you saying you would be satisfied with less?

You keep saying the team depends on the turnover, and call it a bad thing. But I have yet to see the evidence of games they only won because of turnovers, or any explanation at all of why forcing turnovers is a bad way to win anyway.
In essense you are saying that you think the team should be good enough on offense to win 50-49 if the D sucked and good enough on D to win 3-0 if the O sucked or you aren't confident in them. What team out there comes close to fitting that?
Even narrow it down to defense. I know I've asked this before, but you don't answer. What defense out there meets your definition of what you would feel confident in. For all of the arrows you are slinging at this defense, including calling it a negative that they won by large enough margins that they havent played in a lot of close 4th quarters so therefore you assume they will fail in that situation. Let me know who these defenses are that meet all of the criteria you are saying the Patriots do not.
I think the defense could have been depended on to win the last 2 games if the offense sucked, and those we 2 9 win teams.
 
With the #1 seed almost sewn up and wins over every good team in the conference, of course anything less than a SB would be a disappointment.
Are you saying you would be satisfied with less?

You keep saying the team depends on the turnover, and call it a bad thing. But I have yet to see the evidence of games they only won because of turnovers, or any explanation at all of why forcing turnovers is a bad way to win anyway.
In essense you are saying that you think the team should be good enough on offense to win 50-49 if the D sucked and good enough on D to win 3-0 if the O sucked or you aren't confident in them. What team out there comes close to fitting that?
Even narrow it down to defense. I know I've asked this before, but you don't answer. What defense out there meets your definition of what you would feel confident in. For all of the arrows you are slinging at this defense, including calling it a negative that they won by large enough margins that they havent played in a lot of close 4th quarters so therefore you assume they will fail in that situation. Let me know who these defenses are that meet all of the criteria you are saying the Patriots do not.
I think the defense could have been depended on to win the last 2 games if the offense sucked, and those we 2 9 win teams.

I guess right now with where the Patriots are I would be disappointed if they did not make it to the Super Bowl. Since in all likelihood they will be the number one seed and have home field. I would be disappointed if they lost a playoff game at home. I dont think they match up well with the NFC, and the game being indoors on turf. I would expect either the Falcons or Saints to come out of the NFC. The Falcons obviously share the best record in the league and I see the Saints coming strong now, as well obviously having the experience from last year. So I guess I would say not getting to the Super Bowl would be a disappointment, but I do not expect them to win it.

I think the team needs to be as close to balanced on offense and defense to be really considered for a Super Bowl champion. If the offense has a sub par day, the defense needs to be able to bail them out, and vise versa. I think that the Patriots offense is that much better than the Patriots defense that if the offense struggles the defense is not good enough yet to make up the difference.

You said the Patriots have not won a game this year because of turnovers. They won the Colts game because of a turnover. The Colts were in FG range and moving the ball when Sanders picked off Manning. Without the INT the Pats were looking at at least OT and maybe even a Colts TD and a loss. Another game that comes to mind is the Chargers game, without the Charger turnovers the Pats lose that game. The defense also struggled that game in the 2nd half/4th quarter blowing a double digit lead.

You ask what defense I feel confidence in, and it doesnt matter because this isnt about other teams, this about the Patriots. With how young and inexperienced the Patriots are I dont have 100% faith in them going into the playoffs especially considering the number of yards they have given up, and their lack of experience in playing wire to wire close games.
 
With the #1 seed almost sewn up and wins over every good team in the conference, of course anything less than a SB would be a disappointment.
Are you saying you would be satisfied with less?
.


Whooha Superbowl. Are you kidding me? This team is at best 10-6 or 11-5 team, but more likely an 8-8 team. We will be luck if we get a wild card spot and go one and done. This is a rebuilding year. You homers who think we have a shot at winning a playoff game need to back off the cool aid.

I know there is no way we can win a playoff game this year. I read that on Patsfans.com earlier this year. ;)
 
I guess right now with where the Patriots are I would be disappointed if they did not make it to the Super Bowl. Since in all likelihood they will be the number one seed and have home field. I would be disappointed if they lost a playoff game at home. I dont think they match up well with the NFC, and the game being indoors on turf. I would expect either the Falcons or Saints to come out of the NFC. The Falcons obviously share the best record in the league and I see the Saints coming strong now, as well obviously having the experience from last year. So I guess I would say not getting to the Super Bowl would be a disappointment, but I do not expect them to win it.
The AFC is superior to the NFC. I dont see how either of those defenses could have a prayer at stopping Brady and the Pats indoors.

I think the team needs to be as close to balanced on offense and defense to be really considered for a Super Bowl champion. If the offense has a sub par day, the defense needs to be able to bail them out, and vise versa. I think that the Patriots offense is that much better than the Patriots defense that if the offense struggles the defense is not good enough yet to make up the difference.
I guess I just dont understand your thought process here. A 'balanced' team may stand a better chance if one unit plays poorly, but they also have a greater chance of having that happen. If we had a slightly better than average offense and a slightly better than average defense, the D may be better equipped to handle a bad O day, but there is also a much greater chance to have to, because its unlikely anyone is stopping our O.


You said the Patriots have not won a game this year because of turnovers.
Actually I asked for examples.

They won the Colts game because of a turnover. The Colts were in FG range and moving the ball when Sanders picked off Manning. Without the INT the Pats were looking at at least OT and maybe even a Colts TD and a loss. Another game that comes to mind is the Chargers game, without the Charger turnovers the Pats lose that game. The defense also struggled that game in the 2nd half/4th quarter blowing a double digit lead.
But they didnt win because of turnovers, they had turnovers contribute to winning, as is supposed to happen.
Your logic is that if the Colts were stopped on 4 downs at midfield that is a better win than making a play to take the ball away. I simply dont agree. We will probably never agree because you continually imply that taking the ball away is a cheap way to play defense and makes a win undeserved. Thats crazy.

You ask what defense I feel confidence in, and it doesnt matter because this isnt about other teams, this about the Patriots. With how young and inexperienced the Patriots are I dont have 100% faith in them going into the playoffs especially considering the number of yards they have given up, and their lack of experience in playing wire to wire close games.
Well of course its about the other teams because we have to play other teams to win the SB.
I dont know what you mean by 100% faith. Are you looking for a guarantee?
If you can't find another team that is better qualified, or lacks the flaws you are basing this opinion on, then you have as much faith in them as any, and you are just setting the bar at an unrealistic place. (Which of course you are because you can never have 100% faith. You dont even have that in our offense because you are criticizing the defense for not making you happy about what they will do when our O craps out)
If no defenses fit what you are requiring this one to fit, what is the issue you are spending hours every day whining about?
I think if you really looked you would find the teams you think are good are no better equipped in the areas you are lambasting the Pats D for.
 
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Whooha Superbowl. Are you kidding me? This team is at best 10-6 or 11-5 team, but more likely an 8-8 team. We will be luck if we get a wild card spot and go one and done. This is a rebuilding year. You homers who think we have a shot at winning a playoff game need to back off the cool aid.

I know there is no way we can win a playoff game this year. I read that on Patsfans.com earlier this year. ;)
We were 9-2 and people were still sticking to 10-6 predictions.
 
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