Are you confident in this defense?

[mgteich]

Of course I'm not serious.

Are you serious?

Add Brace, Burgess, Woods, TBC, Wright and Green and I'll agree with you but c'mon. Last time I checked BB makes a great chicken salad with good chicken.

 

[SeymourTrophies]

will to tell you the turth the pats should have been playing a 4-3 (2 years ago) they have not had the LB to play a 3-4 with some speed at LB like the stellers do in a long time

and as far as jim johnson go's all he dose is blitz a lot

and he can do that because he has all pro corners something the pats dont have

the pats starting corner last year o'neal could not even make the taxens 53 man roster

and the new guy's the pats bring in the lions cast off

and springs who is not just realy old but all so has not played a full season in some time

That defense (last year's Eagles D) was not particularly talented. They had Trent Cole, Dawkins, and Sheldon Brown. After that, they are hardly world beaters, and I certainly wouldn't say that they have more talent than the Pats do. They still managed to overachieve like no other. Is Dawkins that much better at leading a defense than the guys we have are?

Johnson does blitz a lot, but it works. He gave us fits in 2007. He, LeBeau, and whoever is coaching the ravens for the day always seem to get pressure, no matter who is on the field. Incidentally, Pees did get more aggressive toward the end of last season, and it yielded results, albeit in extreme weather.

OT: Springs missed a lot of last season. He was fairly healthy before then.

 

[bucky]

You are looking at the stats that are each a piece of whether or not a defense is successful, and ignoring the cumulative result, which is points allowed.
I could care less what stats look good or bad if points are not being allowed. Those stats you are citing are telling part of the story, and the ones you leave out, added to them puts the Pats 2008 defense in the top 1/4 of the NFL.

By the way, time of possession is a stat that is equally attributable to offense and defense. Every second you leave the other team on the field, you cant be on it.

Just to continue this craziness a little. When you say the Pats' defense was 8th in the league in points allowed, you should at least factor out points that were not scored against the defense (like Int and KO returns).

If you look at that, NE allowed 2 TDs on special teams. Meanwhile, Miami allowed 4 and Minny allowed 9. So that already puts the Pats defense 10th in points allowed, not 8th.

If you look at TDs allowed by the defense (excluding all returns) - they rank 17th, smack in the middle of the league.

Passing TDs allowed - second to last. Yards/play - 19th. Forced Turnovers - 20th. Opponents' QB rating - 23rd.

Anyway you look at it, the Patriots were not a top 10 defense, and against the pass they may have been in the bottom 10.

 

[TheBeers]

I'm pretty excited to see this years defense... really looking forward to watching Meriweather and Mayo hopefully have great seasons. Overall they are pretty talented and fast and with BB you know they are going to play smart. I'm confident this D will at least be in the top half of the league and you never know.. if they gel and stay relatively healthy they could be really really good.

 

[captain stone]

Just to continue this craziness a little. When you say the Pats' defense was 8th in the league in points allowed, you should at least factor out points that were not scored against the defense (like Int and KO returns).

If you look at that, NE allowed 2 TDs on special teams. Meanwhile, Miami allowed 4 and Minny allowed 9. So that already puts the Pats defense 10th in points allowed, not 8th.

If you look at TDs allowed by the defense (excluding all returns) - they rank 17th, smack in the middle of the league.

Passing TDs allowed - second to last. Yards/play - 19th. Forced Turnovers - 20th. Opponents' QB rating - 23rd.

Anyway you look at it, the Patriots were not a top 10 defense, and against the pass they may have been in the bottom 10.

Thank you.

Add 3rd-down % and RZ % and Sack #s, and what the sum becomes, is: We're gonna need to score on every possession - again...and that was before the Seymour (& his 8 sacks) trade.

 

[patsfan-1982]

That defense (last year's Eagles D) was not particularly talented. They had Trent Cole, Dawkins, and Sheldon Brown. After that, they are hardly world beaters, and I certainly wouldn't say that they have more talent than the Pats do. They still managed to overachieve like no other. Is Dawkins that much better at leading a defense than the guys we have are?

Johnson does blitz a lot, but it works. He gave us fits in 2007. He, LeBeau, and whoever is coaching the ravens for the day always seem to get pressure, no matter who is on the field. Incidentally, Pees did get more aggressive toward the end of last season, and it yielded results, albeit in extreme weather.

OT: Springs missed a lot of last season. He was fairly healthy before then.[/QUOTE

so do you think that the eagels would still get to the QB as much as they did if they had o'neal and hobbs as there starters and not brown and samuel ?

 

[chillinvillin]

Ive got to admit, im really nervous about this defence. But like BB said, we will know by mid season how good they are.

On the point that the defence was middle of the pack last year, I think its a little deceiving. Just think what the defence would have ranked had Brady not got injured. The offence would have been on the field much longer while the defence rested, and the opposing teams would have had to play catch up making it easier for the def coor to plan against. Thats what im hoping will happen this year.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

Confident? Nah.

Intrigued? Hell yeah. This is a brand-new defense really except for Warren and Wilfork. The team has shed a lot of older players.

Sometimes that works, sometimes it backfires.

I hope it works.

 

[Patspsycho]

I suspect we will continue to have some problems in the flat until the youngsters can develop the ability to anticipate to the extent that Harrison and Samuel could..

The one thing I look forward to is our four men DL having an impact on the play. I really think we will see extended playing time from Brace and Pryor rotating in and out, and this leads to an increase in quarterback pressures..

 

[BennyBledsoe]

I suspect we will continue to have some problems in the flat until the youngsters can develop the ability to anticipate to the extent that Harrison and Samuel could..

The one thing I look forward to is our four men DL having an impact on the play. I really think we will see extended playing time from Brace and Pryor rotating in and out, and this leads to an increase in quarterback pressures..

Not necessarily...if they suck, it wont'!

And 3-4 should have pressure, too, from the OLB position.

Unfortunately, our OLBs were just OLDs the last few years.

 

[Patspsycho]

Not necessarily...if they suck, it wont'!

I just don't think they will suck. They have the motor to begin with, which is essentially what you want in a DL.. you can teach everything else.

And when I speak of the 4 men DL, I meant when they are in the 4-3, which I think we'll see more often than not even though we won't really run with a base D.

 

[BennyBledsoe]

I just don't think they will suck. They have the motor to begin with, which is essentially what you want in a DL.. you can teach everything else.

And when I speak of the 4 men DL, I meant when they are in the 4-3, which I think we'll see more often than not even though we won't really run with a base D.

Motor doesn't matter all that much if they don't know where they're motoring to. And we've yet to see the young guys in REAL game situations. Do they have the capacity to learn and adapt, are they going to play the system or are they out for their own stats?

We just don't know yet. We can hope, of course

 

[mb6592]

Just to continue this craziness a little. When you say the Pats' defense was 8th in the league in points allowed, you should at least factor out points that were not scored against the defense (like Int and KO returns).

If you look at that, NE allowed 2 TDs on special teams. Meanwhile, Miami allowed 4 and Minny allowed 9. So that already puts the Pats defense 10th in points allowed, not 8th.

If you look at TDs allowed by the defense (excluding all returns) - they rank 17th, smack in the middle of the league.

Passing TDs allowed - second to last. Yards/play - 19th. Forced Turnovers - 20th. Opponents' QB rating - 23rd.

Anyway you look at it, the Patriots were not a top 10 defense, and against the pass they may have been in the bottom 10.

Excellent Post. Thanks for doing the research to rebut those who chastised the "the know nothings" who chose to believe their own eyes rather than the "top 10 defense" pablum that was (and continues to be) fed to us by many of the "experts" on this board.

 

[mb6592]

You're right that points and wins are the most important stat. Except it is a team stat. "Points Allowed" is affected by the offense, defense, and ST. The patriots' offense had the best time of possession and the highest number of plays from scrimmage. If you want to measure the defense, you have to use stats that isolate defensive performance.

OK, my point is that "points allowed" is not a purely defensive statistic. When you make a statement like "this is the 8th best defense in the NFL", you're quantifying the defense, but you're using team stats to back it up. So I am looking for the stats that measure the effectiveness of the defense with as little impact as possible from offense and ST. Things like avg yds/play. Forced turnovers. I can go down the list and name a bunch of stats that are "defensive" as opposed to "team", and the Pats won't be in the top half of the league in any of them.

Your points are too obvious to refute, but alas.....