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Are we really free if our government is for sale?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mcgraw_wv, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    The older I get, the more I know, the more I see, the more it shows... Our government is for sale at every corner, and how possibly can we be considered truly free, if all you need is money to make policy, change laws, and appoint people into positions of power who will rule in your favor?

    I feel the only true representation of the people, is a careful balance of the powers that be doing things in carefully timed, and presented fashion in order not alert the people, and cause a riot, or revolutionary mindset in the people. I feel the media has become distracted from reporting on anything real about us Americans, and us as a people by this fake Dem vs Rep battle. I feel we have been turned against each other as a people as one large distraction.

    Discuss...



    P.S. "The powers that be, are not connected, not working together, they are hundreds of pockets of power carefully plotting and timing efforts that take away power from you, solidify profits, and centralize power in their hands. Not one large conspiracy theory, not one crazy coup, or fascist regime. Just sleeper cells of power hungry groups that when presented the right time, and opportunity take it, and never look back or care what it does to us as a people. IMHO"
     
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Here is a little factoid on this issue, the Bankruptcy Bill passed a couple of congresses ago was actually written by representatives of MBNA... talk about self interest.
     
  3. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    That's exactly what I'm talking about...

    How the does that make you feel as an American. I ask that at a deep honest core level. I read this Political Forum and I almost am floored by the sometimes complete disgust we have with each other on the other side.

    I personally feel that corporate America is robbing me on a daily basis, and I feel even more defeated as an American when I think, "Hmmm I need to tell my representatives about this" and then realize they are step 2 in the process, and they don't care either.

    As an American, I feel we have no country left, we have debt to companies, and obligations to ideology, and leadership that does not have any interest in my opinion or viewpoint other than to ensure I do not start a riot, organize, and vote for them, and buy their supporters products. Past that, As an American, I am worthless.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is not new, in the fifties Eisenhower and then C. Wright Mills spoke of the military industrial complex... this has been going on for a long time, how freedom is operationalized is how we know it currently. Is it good???, do not agree with most.. but somehow it works pretty well.

    The ideal and practice are two different things.
     
  5. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    This is what unrestricted capitalism gets you. If the choices at this point in time are "big government" and "big business" I'll take the one the people have some say over.
     
  6. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    No matter how imperfect the Libertarian party may be, I do think it is the only way to break the money power hold corporate America has on our government and therefore us.

    And then that party will fall in line with whatever money tells them to do. Envy and Greed will always empower corporate America to lead, and take over the un-alienable rights, to be leased to people at a great price!
     
  7. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    I don't get how the first statement is reconciled with the second. A Libertarian stance, as it's most commonly interpreted these days (Ron Paul), would basically give corporate America free reign over the government.
     
  8. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    No, it would give corporations free reign to do business, with no voice in the government which has been trimmed down to only perform the needed functions the constitution gives permission for the government to do.

    What good would money in government do without politicans power to control aspects of business.

    Under Ron Paul's ideas, business still must respect personal and private property. For instance, a business destroys the environment, the waste comes down stream and destroys your property, they pay for it.

    Do we seriously have government in place today to protect people? FDA? Nope, they are bought and paid for, SEC? Madeoff?, Education system? Have you seen our schools lately?

    What part other than the Post Office, is government succeeding at and executing in the best interest of the people?
     
  9. 363839

    363839 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Post Office is successful?:confused:

    http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d09475t.pdf
     
  10. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Meaning that any oversight would come from the businesses themselves, even more so than is the case today.

    The problem is that the money corrupts the government's ability to regulate the market and corporate America to protect the people. You are arguing that we replace corrupted oversight with no oversight at all.

    So a deregulated massive corporation pollutes your water, and who exactly makes them pay for it?

    You seem to be pointing to the exact opposite of what you are trying to say. Instead of having big business corrupt the SEC, FDA etc. just get rid of them all together? This will make the problem far worse, not better. Even a corrupted government is more answerable to the people than no government at all. If the problem is the private sector ruining civics, how exactly does getting rid of the public side and empowering the private side help that situation? It will make it much, much worse.

    As long as you have campaign contributions (private sector) and cronyism this will continue to be the case. Imagine an education system brought to you by Fisher Price, yeah they'd really have our kids best interests at heart. Can you say Idiocracy?
     
  11. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't know really...all I know is I live in a country that is lost, will not be found, and is a dim dim shadow of it's former self. I feel no pride in my country like my grand parents probably once had. I am not inspired by our leaders who's only task is re-election, and divisive politics. I'm not encouraged by our continual business friendly government that has no ability to say no to a dollar.

    I feel like i'm watching the absolute corruption of a democracy that has run it's course, and has allowed the weak, uninspiring, power hungry, uncaring, cynical representatives into government where long ago inspiring public servants once were.

    I feel like humans are destined to live under corruption, and no system, no virtue, or morals, or government, or culture will ever preserve against corruption. All ideals will eventually be turned in for gold, and all honesty will be sold for lies.

    What do we tell our children about why our country is so great? Because they have a government that sells itself to the highest bidder and you always have the power and right as a people to elect the ones who receive that payoff?
     
  12. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    Are you not amazed that you can put a letter in the mail for 40 cents and in a few days it is half way around the world.

    The Post Office doesn't have to make money, it provides a service, at a great price, in amazing times for the people, we should use our tax money for a system like that...

    It's pretty damn amazing.
     
  13. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Sadly, I agree. But it all starts with education. The better educated the population, the more they expect from their elected leaders.
     
  14. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Not only that, but you can't just ignore the fact that email has a huge impact. I can't remember the last time I actually hand wrote a letter to someone.
     
  15. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't believe so, as I feel the people have been lulled into having faith in those institutions which have been paid off long before, and the majority still have faith in the FDA to protect them.

    Without that security blanket people might actually take interest in where their food comes form, and how it gets there with what chemicals.

    The FDA, SEC, ect... are nothing but stand up systems sold to the people on an idea that they have their best interests at heart, and they should focus their attention on things like shopping, and consuming.

    Great study in Europe about speeding, and traffic signals, very applicable here. In a section of road that frequently had accedients they continually lowered the speed limit trying to reduce the amount of colisions. Finally someone tried removing all the signs period, and the average speed dropped 5 MPH lower than the lowest MPH they tried, and accedients dropped by 50%. Becuase people HAD to become aware of their environment, they had to think, and they had to decide for themselves what a safe speed was, and where to turn and when to do it.

    We need to adopt that mentality as a country.

    It's ok to make people think for themselves, and find out why, where, and how the food they are EATING comes from and what's in it. Same with investing, and anything else really...


    Also, imagine if you heard from your neighbor that the local food mart was selling bad food, would you shop their anymore? That kind of word of mouth checks and balances is far far more devastating than any government watch dog. Wow and even a Local Media that covered it! Life could be cool...
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2009
  16. Wildo7

    Wildo7 Totally Full of It

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    Well I think awareness and information are obviously vital, but I don't think the analogy applies. When corporations own the media, they control what news is presented and how. Looking around you in to be safe is easy, since you are relying on your own first hand information, but counting on Johnson and Johnson to tell you which chemicals are harmful, or what they did in X country to produce their product is basically what we have now just not as horrific as what you are proposing.

    I think you are looking at this backwards, though you definitely grasp the issue. Government is set up for the people and big business has infiltrated and corrupted it. Libertarians believe that Government has infiltrated big business, not the other way around.
     

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