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Are we guilty of war crimes?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Feb 25, 2006.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This war, whether the result of lies by the Bush administration or inept intelligence gathering by the Bush administraiton, is on the verge of becoming a crime of international proportion. If we don't get control of what's going on in Iraq, I think there will be calls to try the United States for war crimes. This is terribly alarming. What do we do? Wait and pray? Send in more troops? Run and accept the consequences? Run and rationalize?

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060225/ts_nm/iraq_dc

    Iraq's defense minister warned on Saturday of the risk of a "civil war" that "will never end" as sectarian violence flared again despite a second day of curfew in Baghdad.
  2. Chevy

    Chevy Rookie

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    Don't forget the "inept" intel gathering of the Clinton administration, as well as that of France, Germany, The United Kingdom, and many others.
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    How many attacks were there on Americans during the "wonderful clinton years"?
    ____________________________________________
    Keep the Arabs out of our Ports.
  4. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    WTF are you talking about? Pay attention, keep focussed, and try to respond to the question.
  5. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Rookie

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    If there are accusations of war crimes, it's only going to be the same nut-bag that is lobbing those same or similar accusations now. I'm not worried about it.
  6. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm sorry, I get all f-cked up in here with you College Professors and Brain Surgeons.
  7. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    I wish...then I wouldn't have to work for a living, even though I love my job.

    So anyways, WTF were you talking about?
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My concern, BlueTalon, is that if Iraq (or even a broader area) spirals out of control, we'll be the obvious cause of that. As bad as Saddam was, his rule was better than anarchy and civil war, and I think most people would agree with that. (For example, we'd all probably rather have Cindy Sheehan or Pat Robertson as President then have mobs roaming the streets doing whatever harm they could.) We caused the problem, we have to find a way to address it. As one who has advocated pulling out in order to begin the peace process, I wonder if we'll soon be past the point of no return where even our departure won't calm things down. If that's the case, what do we do?
  9. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Rookie

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    Under our umbrella of protection, the Iraqi people have successfully conducted three (3) nationwide elections. Those jubilant, purple-fingered people are not the cause of the riots, nor are they the source of any war-crime accusations. The riots and strife in Iraq do not yet rise to the level of anarchy and civil war, and let's not be in a rush to put them there.

    How do we (or the Iraqis) stop it? The same way we stop any riots. That strict curfew is a great first step.


    Please disillusion yourself of the idea that our departure would "calm things down." Our departure would tell the terrorists that they win. "Just outlast the Americans and kill enough people, and they'll crawl back in their hole." Our departure would do precisely the opposite of calm things down -- it would open pandora's box.
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Of course that's what the terrorists want you to believe, but we all know that power is the courage to do what's in our interest, and Al Qaida's view of us has no bearing.

    That's really the point of this thread. If Iraq breaks into civil war and anarchy, what should we do? As one who has favored pulling troops out, I'm wondering if there's a civil war whether we have the responsibility to send in more troops if that's the only way to restore order. I don't know where I stand on this issue, but a civil war raises many new and tough moral questions.
  11. BlueTalon

    BlueTalon Rookie

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    Excuse me, but Osama bin Laden learned that lesson -- that Americans run at the sight of blood -- when we pulled out of Somalia, and it has had repercussions ever since then, including the attacks of 9/11. It would be short-sighted and tragic to re-inforce that lesson.
    Again, let's not be calling it a civil war yet, because it's not. Is it bad? Yes. Does it need to be handled? Yes. But don't be in such a hurry to abandon all hope. For now, all I see are riots.
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Even if that is the lesson he learned, it's the wrong lesson. The right lesson is that America uses its strength selectively and that we make decisions based on what's in our interest. At some point it might be in our interest to go after Al Qaida members rather than launching wars on countries that we dislike for other reasons. We have the power to change the nature of the war. Pulling out does not mean we lay down the red carpet for Al Qaida. It may mean, for instance, that we go after Al Qaida members with more fury.

    I agree with you, it's not civil war yet, and there are moderates who are trying very hard to stabilize the situation. That said, do you think if it gets worse we should send in more troops?
  13. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    There will be a civil war whether we're involved in it or not. The real question is do we want to referee a civil war where all three parties hate us and want us to leave.

    We get out now (been saying that for years) and let politics run its natural course. If we stay, it would have the same result as if we jumped on a grenade but instead of saving comrades, we save our enemy. Let the Kurds, Sunnis, and Shiites sort it out like big boys, and brink our Soldiers home before they get caught in the Sh-t storm. When the dust clears, and Iraq is gone, maybe then we'll have learned the lessons of Viet Nam.
  14. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rookie

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    Way to overreact to the mainstream media and push the panic button.

    Are things rosy over there? Of course not

    Has it turned to total anarchy and chaos as the MSM would have you believe? No
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Turd, your post reminds me of the scene in Naked Gun where Drebbin is standing in front of an exploding building with cars crashing around him, holding hos hands up and shouting, "Everybody go home...there's nothing to see here!".
    Check out this in today's CNN.com
    http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/02/26/iraq.main/index.html

    The civil war's coming and there's nothing we can do to stop it. Time to get out of the way.
  16. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Some of the righties are just trying to avoid the issue until they get their instructions on what to say from the RNC.
  17. Turd Furguson

    Turd Furguson Rookie

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    The left; Al-Qaeda's best friend.
  18. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    Why do you say that? I'm very conservative and vehemently against the invasion and occupation of Iraq. You and I both know Bush never cared about getting Bin Ladin or AQ. Does that make me or BUSH a friend of AQ ?
  19. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown Rookie

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    Why attempt to pose a logical question to someone who's best comeback is "the left are terrorists".

    This isn't about right or left, its about right and wrong. We don't know the result of Murtha's plan. We do know that the current plan ain't working.

    As far as Somalia, yeah, I've heard that rationale from the right so long it makes my head hurt. Was it wrong to have gone into Somalia completely unprepared? Yes. We lost 16 soldiers. Was it wrong to have gone into Iraq completely unprepared? Yes. We've 2300 dead and close to 25,000 wounded.
  20. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    No we won't. The population of the middle east that allows this will be the cause. Yes, we will be the cause of creating the situation which allowed those in the middle east to let this happen. But we are a secondary cause - make no mistake, it's the unbelievable pitifulness of the average middle easterner that's the cause. Think of it this way, if another country came to the U.S., overthrew our government and put us in charge of creating a new one . . . would a civil war erupt ? I don't think so. And if it did, shame on us.

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