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Are the pats short changing Branch?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by pats60, Jun 25, 2006.

  1. pats60

    pats60 On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    We all know what Brady means to the patriots he`s the best there is.
    But what about Branch we all here on the board know his regular
    season stats . But without Branch clutch performince in the post season
    who knows if we would have won them
    In 2002 super bowl 10 catches 143 yards td against Carloina.
    In 2003 named offensieve player in championship game 116 yds rec 1 td
    37 rushing 1 td.
    In super bowl against Phila named mvp with 11 rec for 133 yards and 1 td.
    In last year loss to Denver 153 yds recieving 8 catches a pats playoff
    record for recieving yards.
    Do i believe he deserve Chad Johnson,Moss , Smith money. until they
    do what he`s done than i say THE PATS ARE SHORT CHANGING HIM
     
  2. Pats726

    Pats726 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    What about other players and what they have copntributed to the team's championship games??? I think you are far in the minority...if you get a chance...read
    http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/showthread.php?t=37071
    This topic was discussed at much length.
     
  3. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    I say you are wrong. :D

    We would be a better team with some of those guys you mentioned.

    Branch is not a top #1, he is a middle to lower tier #1, and won't be offered league leading money.

    This thread has already been argued to death in recent days, there is a huge backlog of opinions you can check on this issue. :)

    Let Bioli do their job, Please!
     
  4. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    He's a UFA in 8 months. He can take a little less than UFA market value now or wait his turn.
     
  5. b_btrick

    b_btrick Rookie

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    If this is referring to what Branch is making this year, its a moot point since he signed his contract and it still has one year (this year) left.
    Though I will agree that it is slightly under what he should make if he is as productive as he was last year, though not so much if he is no better than the years previous to that.
    If this is in refrence to the new contract then I have to ask just how much the Pats are offering him in his new contract.
    If you cant answer this (and I'm not referring to what they MAY be offering him based on what they MAY have offered Givens or any other receiver, strictly what they are offering Branch without the conjecture and guessing), then the comments about the Pats shortchanging Branch are baseless. As far as anyone knows, it is equally possible that Branch is holding out for a contract the size of the one paid to T.O., thus untill we know exactly what the Pats are offering and what Branch is asking, we have know idea at all as to whether the Pats are shortchanging him.
    Just my .02, but it seems ludicrous to be talking about shortchaning, and needing to get the deal done, and needing to stop playing hardball and all the other stuff untill we know what the situation is they are actually dealing with.
    Of course, if this was not about the new contract and was simply about him being underpaid for this year, just ignore all the previous ... :D .
     
  6. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! In the Starting Line-Up

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    That is a nice way of putting it in perspective.
     
  7. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Branch has been terrific, especially in big games. But saying that he is "short changed" because he's come through with big games IN big games and Chad Johnson hasn't is really short-sighted. I expect if Chad Johnson were put in the position of playing in a whole bunch of playoff games, he too would have some nice numbers. I also expect that if given the choice b/w Deion and Chad, the vast majority would opt for Chad, even with his occasional off-field B.S.
     
  8. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    I must be completely out of the loop, because I don't know what the Patriots offered him.

    What was it? And how much did we short change him by.

    I'm dying to hear because for awhile it was seeming like many fans were declaring the Patriots offer to be unfair without even knowing what it was.

    I like all your other points about the great performances Branch has had.

    I guess by that same logic we should have Jermaine Wiggins singed to a long term contract.
     
  9. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    :confused:

    1) Branch wasn't drafted until the 2002 Draft, which was after XXXVI, played in February 2002.

    2) The Super Bowl (XXXVIII) against Carolina came in February 2004, following the 2003 season.

    What do you mean he was "named offensive player?"

    He recorded those stats against Pittsburgh in the AFC Championship in January of 2005, following the 2004 season.


    I agree that Branch has performed well in the playoffs, but nearly every Patriot has! That's precisely why the Pats' trophy case is full of Lombardi trophies!

    This type of perfomance from a player in the playoffs doesn't mean the Pats are going to bow down and cater to their demands. McGinest had 4 1/2 sacks, a playoff record, against Jacksonville in the playoffs last January while Givens recorded his 7th straight playoff touchdown reception against Denver. We all know that both are no longer with the Patriots.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2006
  10. pats60

    pats60 On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    The point i was trying to make was Branch was just as good as
    the other #1 rec out there.And in my opinon he deserved what they are
    making.In big games he played big like a clutch hitter in baseball.
     
  11. dhamz

    dhamz In the Starting Line-Up

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    I guess I would be in the minority. I think Johnson is clearly more talented and more productive but Branch is still talented and productive and doesn't bring me the all that matters is getting touches attitude you get from Chad Johnson.

    Every player cares about getting stats. I'm not one of the Pats fans who thinks none of our guys care about stats. Johnson just took to an off the chart level. His locker room tirade which reportedly involved swinging at a coach at halftime of the Steelers game was cited by several Bengals as an enormous distraction as they headed out for the second half. They were winning a playoff game and he was throwing a hissy fit because he wasn't getting enough passes thrown to him. To care more about your numbers or more likely showing the cameras your dumb TD celebration you practiced all week in the mirror than winning a playoff game is unforgivable.

    That said, I still would not pay Branch top $. If that is what it is going to take the Pats should and will look elsewhere.
     
  12. pats1

    pats1 Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He is NOT just as good as any other #1. There's no way he enters into the league of Smith, Fitzgerald, Johnson, Owens, Moss, etc.
     
  13. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Jerome Solomon seems to be taking his turn driving the Deion Branch short-change bus this week. Either that or Borges and Cafardo have been needling him all week to get back on the Patriots are Cheap Mantra.

    http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patriots/articles/2006/06/25/is_branch_in_a_go_pattern/?page=1

    "In this space a few weeks back, we speculated that a long-term solution between Branch and the Patriots would be reached before the season begins, and both sides would be happy. Oops.

    Having promised Sir Belichick that we would never combine the words ``low" and ``ball" in a Patriots story, we're happy to report that the team has yet to offer Branch a contract with numbers high enough for him to play ball.

    The Patriots have not insulted Branch with their offer. (If they had, his agent, Jason Chayut, probably would have shared that information with the media.) But the sides simply have opposing views of Branch's worth.

    For fans, at least, it seems the debate over what (or whether) the Patriots should pay Branch has turned into whether he is a legitimate No. 1 receiver.

    That is not the point. Branch is the Patriots' No. 1 receiver and, maybe more importantly, he is Brady's No. 1 receiver.

    ``He's probably our best player on offense," Brady said.

    No. 1 or not, only an idiot would expect Branch to be paid in the Randy Moss-Terrell Owens-Marvin Harrison neighborhood, and we assume Chayut is no idiot.

    But only an idiot would expect Branch to happily accept a contract offer from the Patriots in the David Givens neighborhood. That would be the same David Givens who, had he returned to New England, would have been the Patriots' No. 2 wideout behind Branch.

    Givens got market value (definition: what someone is willing to pay you) for his services from Tennessee. While a five-year, $24 million deal (with an $8 million signing bonus) is a nice take for Givens, Branch has a right to scoff at that.

    New England was careful in dealing with Givens, knowing full well that whatever it paid him would be the starting point for the Branch negotiations.

    Branch has another starting point in mind. Indianapolis No. 2 wideout Reggie Wayne recently put ink to a six-year deal worth about $40 million, with up to $13.5 million in bonuses.

    Branch's argument is that he should make more than a top No. 2. In five seasons, Wayne has 304 catches for 4,164 yards and 28 TDs. Should Branch put together another year similar to last (78 receptions for 998 yards), his five-year totals would not be far from those numbers.

    But Branch will almost always trail Wayne in dollars. As a first-round pick in 2001, Wayne's $2.4 million signing bonus alone is more than what Branch, a second-round pick in 2002, has made in his four years in the league."
    --------------------------

    The problem I have with Jerome's thinking is:

    Givens was a FA, and his market was in the $18M range based on the only 2 offers he received until Tennessee overpaid him to be something he is not - a #1 WR. Tennessee did this because they are desperate to field a WR corps who can help Billy Volek carry this team until their new franchise QB grows into the job. These are the same people who have been digging out of cap hell going on 3-4 seasons now and who were just forced to part company with their former franchise QB rather than face a $23M cap hit. Like BB says, he is not responsible for what other GM's pay.

    Reggie Wayne is a similar situation in that Polian paid him to stay on as the #1 in waiting behind a 35 year old HOF'er. Unlike BB, BP has also been known to overpay to retain his most coveted talent....

    According to Jerome if Deion puts up a similar season in 2006 he will almost match the numbers of Indy's #2 WR who made as much in his rookie signing bonus as Branch will have made in his entire rookie contract. So...:confused:

    I'd be fine with a pay as you go in arrears system, but that is not what the NFL has. Wayne was a first rounder - THEY GET MORE JUST FOR BEING THAT JEROME. I know you were imported from Houston but sheesh.... Deion is underpaid for what he performs as - duh.... and so are most players who emerge from the second round and beyond who work hard and are coached up to become starters. That's the system. Branch was lucky to get what he did since the Pats were perceived to have stretched somewhat for him in the second. Try working for what Givens got for his first 3.

    Deion isn't holding out to force the Pats to negotiate with him - that was going to happen this year as a matter of course. What he is holding out over is the size of the contract the Patriots are talking vs. what he believes he should get just because some other guys are being overpaid.

    What this is all about is 1. Givens almost eclipsed him earnings by virtue of his RFA tender last season, and now has eclipsed him by virtue of his desire to play for Eddie George's old team converging with that team's continued desperation that dates back to about the last time Eddie George played for them.

    2. We have apparently attempted (or been linked to attempts) to sign 3 #1 WR's in the last 12 months - Mason, Walker and Jackson. Coming off an injury plagued season in 2003 Deion seemed not all that perturbed with the Mason scenario - after all Derrick was 31 at the time and only being offered a 4 year deal with a $7M signing bonus which could easily have been viewed as a 2-3 year deal tops. As recently as several weeks ago Deion said he intended to honor his contract although he hoped a new deal would be forthcoming. Then the Walker rumors started to fly, followed shortly by rumors that Branch was steamed and would holdout if Walker were signed before he got his. And though we didn't follow through on Walker, we drafted a first round graded WR for whom we moved up to the top of the second round at the price of a 2 and 3. Hmm.... Like Deion I don't necessarily think he was drafted to replace former 7th rounder Givens....
    Caldwell was signed to replace Givens, and signed for 2 years so that he can be thoroughly evaluated and potentially resigned if he pans out.

    In Reiss' article on Pioli last Sunday Scott hinted that this team will always be looking to add better players. Some players run from that sort of situation while others embrace it. Deion needs to show up at camp and run at his competition, not sit home and stew over it. And if he wants to be paid more than Indy's #2 WR he needs to redirect his attention to outperforming him before expecting to out earn him.
     
  14. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    Bingo! We have Bingo! :rocker:

    Took the words right out of my mouth and showed how foolish the premise of this thread is.
     
  15. pats60

    pats60 On the Game Day Roster

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    #12 Jersey

    I wonder would you trade Branch for any of those selfish players
    you just mention.
     
  16. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think Branch deserves somewhere between Givens and Wayne money. This is an example of how a stupid franchise can really screw it up for a more frugal efficient franchise. Tennessee really overpaid for Givens and Branch is better than Givens, so Branch might argue he should get more than Givens new contract, even though Givens shouldn't have gotten it in the first place. The franchises that throw money around and overpay raise the NFL inflation and salary standards for everyone. Solomon might be right in saying only an idiot would think Branch would be happy with Givens money, but that is about what he should be paid IMO, regardless of if he likes it or not.

    As stated before this thread is somewhat peculiar because we have no idea what the Pats have offered Branch. For all we know he could be high-balling them.
     
  17. Willie55

    Willie55 In the Starting Line-Up

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    More proof the media reads this board.


    I dont think Deion deserves top dollar as Deion has said before he disappears when he is double-teamed. He has trouble beating it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 4, 2005
  18. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    You can't pay a player extra for being unselfish. Payment comes down to on field results, and Branch can not touch any of those mentioned players. He does perform very well in the clutch but I think you also have to attribute some of that to Brady's great clutch play. However, Brady is awesome during the regular season and during the post-season he takes it to another level. Branch is very good during the regular season and then becomes awesome during the post-season. What I'm trying to say is that you can't pay a player elite money when he is only elite in January and February. Don't get me wrong, great performances in the playoffs are imperative as we all know, but if a player is going to be paid big he needs to play big all the time. I think it is telling that Branch couldn't reach 1,000 yards last season despite starting all 16 games and playing in an offense that passed very often. Also he sometimes disappears during physical corners like in the Carolina game and regular season Denver game. An elite WR can be double covered and still get tons of yards, but Branch has not proven that he can play through double teams. I like Branch's humble attitude a lot, but you can't justify paying him big money for that.
     
  19. Patjew

    Patjew PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No Jersey Selected

    Straight up? I sure would. Maybe not for TO, but I'd love to have most if not all of those guys instead of Deion (who I love, BTW). Can you imagine giving Brady a target like Moss? Mmmmmm, that's good target.
     
  20. zippo59

    zippo59 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I agree. Players who talk off the field are ok as long as they produce on the field and aren't a distraction. I probably wouldn't want Chad Johnson because I think he sometimes sykes himself out with talk and ends up choking on the field. I don't think I would want TO either but as bad as he is off the field, once he gets between the lines he plays the game as hard as anyone. Chad Johnson and Randy Moss take plays off, sometimes don't like to be physical, and often don't run block. Owens does everything you could ask for a WR. You can not fault him for any of his on the field play. Of the elite recievers I would want Steve Smith the most, because he is so explosive and is nearly unstoppable, especially during the playoffs. He talks but it's more in the form of Ellis Hobbs talk than TO talk, and he almost alwats backs it up on the field.
     

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