Are the Denver Broncos better or worse this year?

[BobDigital]

People generally agree it will come down to Pats/Broncos in the AFC. A lot had been made of Denver's great off season but i am not convinced and I think an in depth view of it justifies my doubts (which others share as well.

Key losses

Moreno - RB
Decker - WR
Ayers - DE
Woodyard - LB
Phillips - LB
DRC - CB

Those are some solid starters and role players.

Lets look at who they added.

Talib - CB
Ward - S
Ware - DE/Edge player
Sanders - WR

Lets look at gains vs loses now.

WR - Decker vs Sanders - Decker to me is clearly a better WR than Sanders. Sanders allows for an interesting skill set but his biggest asset (speed over the top) is currently what Manning will have the hardest time capitalizing on. Overall: loss

RB - Moreno vs Ball - Moreno last year ran and CAUGHT like a man possessed. Ball showed a few good things but would need a big 2nd year jump to match this production. RBs usually show what they have fairly early though so a large jump is unlikely IMO: Overall: loss

CB - DRC vs Talib - Talib when healthy is a #1 caliber CB. Rodgers when healthy is a very good #2 but a poor man's #1. This is a gain... Except for if Talib gets injured. Overall: push/gain on potential

DE/Edge player - Phillips/Ayers vs Ware - Trading in 2 players for 1 better player is generally a good move and this is no exception. Phillips was getting old anyway and Ayers was merely a solid back up. However they did not get a guy to backup Ware and Ware is 32. He will be good but not as dominate as he was: Overall: Gain but not as much as people think.

S - Ward is simply a gain here and the biggest single move to improve the team from last year. Overall: Clear gain.

LB - Did not replace these players. Overall: Loss

OL - This is in wait and see mode. Right now no comment but it is in flux.

So overall Denver got bigger names back for lesser names but there are spots where this team is clearly worse than last year. I would say the media driven talking point that this team is improved is not a slam dunk and in fact they could turn out to be worse and it not surprise me.

 

[ausbacker]

Offense: about the same.
Defense: perhaps slightly better.

The only player I wanted that Denver brought in with a sexy name was T.J. Ward. Outside of that, I'm reasonably confident the Patriots D will be better than Denver's.

 

[BradyFTW!]

For the moment, I think they're clearly better. Simply by virtue of getting Clady and Miller back, they take a dramatic step forward. Even without factoring for injury, I think the guys they brought in are better than the guys they lost, and expect that they'll be a little bit worse offensively but better by a larger margin on defense.

That said, their schedule is a lot harder this year, and the Pats reloaded even more than they did. So we'll see what happens. I don't think I'm being a total homer to say that I like our chances better this year.

 

[Kontradiction]

If Ware and Talib remain healthy, their defense is better in spite of the fact that their LB corps is crap. Their offense took a step back, particularly through the first four weeks of the season.

 

[ausbacker]

For the moment, I think they're clearly better. Simply by virtue of getting Clady and Miller back, they take a dramatic step forward. Even without factoring for injury, I think the guys they brought in are better than the guys they lost, and expect that they'll be a little bit worse offensively but better by a larger margin on defense.

That said, their schedule is a lot harder this year, and the Pats reloaded even more than they did. So we'll see what happens. I don't think I'm being a total homer to say that I like our chances better this year.

The NFL is about creating match-ups. Looking at what Belichick and Caserio have done with this D, I see the Patriots Defensive players lining up on the Broncos match winners as such:

Match Up 1 Darrelle Revis -Demaryius Thomas
Match Up 2 Jamie Collins - Julius Thomas
Match Up 3 Kyle Arrington - Wes Welker (whatever your opinion on Arrington outside, he's a fine slot DB)
Match Up 4 Alfonzo Dennard - Emmanuel Sanders
Match Up 5 Logan Ryan - Andre Caldwell
Match Up 6 Vince Wilfork - Manny Ramirez (probably the most important battle to be won)

The addition of Revis is as big as we imagined it would be. If he can win his match-up with Thomas, the Patriots will be OK against the Broncos.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The NFL is about creating match-ups. Looking at what Belichick and Caserio have done with this D, I see the Patriots Defensive players lining up on the Broncos match winners as such:

Match Up 1 Darrelle Revis -Demaryius Thomas
Match Up 2 Jamie Collins - Julius Thomas
Match Up 3 Kyle Arrington - Wes Welker (whatever your opinion on Arrington outside, he's a fine slot DB)
Match Up 4 Alfonzo Dennard - Emmanuel Sanders
Match Up 5 Logan Ryan - Andre Caldwell
Match Up 6 Vince Wilfork - Manny Ramirez (probably the most important battle to be won)

The addition of Revis is as big as we imagined it would be. If he can win his match-up with Thomas, the Patriots will be OK against the Broncos.

you forgot about Browner

 

[ausbacker]

you forgot about Browner

I purposely left him out as I'm not sure who he matches up on outside of a 2TE set. You could swing Browner onto Thomas and let Collins roam but outside of that, I struggled to make him fit.

 

[dales804]

I just want the Patriots to kick their ass this year. Twice.

 

[Brady_to_Moss]

after NE and denver...the AFC is so watered down. This is the year if they want to get another one

 

[Guts]

On paper they got better unfortunately for Bronco fans they wI'll not win a superbowl with Peyton Manning as their QB

 

[hwc]

I'm not worthy. I have no idea how you guys figure out if a team is better or worse before they've played a single game, but I'm really impressed that you can do it.

 

[RelocatedPatFan]

<sarcasm alert>

You know the Broncos are better because Manning has another year with these guys, most are returning and he no longer has to teach the system from the ground up (3rd year with Broncos).

Patriots will be worse because Brady turned 37 and is another year older.
</sarcasm alert>

I liked the matchup idea, but you need to include the RBs and turn the tables around. Their defense to our offense. We definitely seem to be much better of D (if we remain reasonably healthy) and the offense should be better as well. The Patriots will be very scary if the OL remains good.

 

[Avenger]

Ward was probably their biggest addition, losing Woodyard is huge though, I think they are a little worse on D this year, at best a push. On O they clearly regressed.

 

[mgteich]

If I understand this thread correctly, it is an effort to convince ourselves that Denver hasn't improved.

We're patriot fans. We think that we have a better team. We will criticize any media type who suggests that Denver might be better than we are. Isn't really that simple?

 

[ausbacker]

<sarcasm alert>

You know the Broncos are better because Manning has another year with these guys, most are returning and he no longer has to teach the system from the ground up (3rd year with Broncos).

Patriots will be worse because Brady turned 37 and is another year older.
</sarcasm alert>

I liked the matchup idea, but you need to include the RBs and turn the tables around. Their defense to our offense. We definitely seem to be much better of D (if we remain reasonably healthy) and the offense should be better as well. The Patriots will be very scary if the OL remains good.

Laziness. Knighton versus Wendell isn't a match-up I like. It's one of the reasons I'd rather see Stork allowed to develop this season. He'll need to be superb against the likely NFC DT's he'll face if the Pats make the SB.

 

[ausbacker]

If I understand this thread correctly, it is an effort to convince ourselves that Denver hasn't improved.

We're patriot fans. We think that we have a better team. We will criticize any media type who suggests that Denver might be better than we are. Isn't really that simple?

I think Denver is about the same if not better than last year. If the Patriots made some of their moves, people here would be up in arms celebrating. The fact is, they're a worthy adversary.

If Denver finishes with a similar or better record than 2013, they'll be difficult to beat given the opponents they will have beaten.

 

[Rob0729]

IDK, many of the Broncos' moves this offseason were overrated. I still think they will be a top team (probably top 3-5), but I don't think they will be as good many think.

I will play devil's advocate and argue the other side of the argument than most already:

• Talib was an absolute stud last year for the first six games, but the rest of his career he has been anywhere from very good to mediocre and never a stud. He also has the concern that we have with Browner in that he is a big physical CB who relies a lot of roughing up receivers and could be hindered by the new emphasis on PI. There is a chance especially if he gets injured that he gives the Broncos less than what DRC gave them last year.

• TJ Ward is a hard hitting safety who is dominant against the run, but he is mediocre in coverage.

• DeMarcus Ware is 32 and has seen decline over the last two years. I expect a rebound this season, but will be provide more than the 10 sacks that Shaun Phillips gave the Broncos last year.

• The loss of Trevathan is huge because he was their best coverage LB and even if he is back in a few weeks, he may never be the same as last year during this season.

• The loss of Decker is big because Manning took advantage of his receiver's size to make up for the fact that his arm strength is diminishing and he throws floaters. If Lattimer doesn't make an immediate impact, they lost an outside threat who can go up for the ball.

• I am still not convinced that Monte Ball is a lead back and he has as many fumbling problems as Ridley.

• I am not convinced Welker will ever be better than what he was after he came back from concussions and he is one more hit away from missing significant time again since he seems to get concussed on every big hit now.

• Clady and Miller are coming back from big injuries. There is a possibility that one or both may not be close to their elite selves (granted the Pats have the same questions about Gronk and Wilfork). Clady had a Liscfranc injury which can be a career killer (although many players do come back totally healthy).

• I personally don't know Clady makes that much of a difference since his replacement did a fairly good job last year and Manning is pretty good with dealing with outside pressure. Rarely did anyone say last year that Manning really could have had Clady protecting his blindside last year. He is an elite LT, but I don't know if his presence was missed all that much since Manning didn't have a lot of problems with pressure all year other than in the Super Bowl.

• The questions on the inside of the offensive line could be a bigger issue. Manning like Brady is more susceptible to inside pressure rather than outside pressure. The loss of Beadles could be big. Granted the Pats have similar questions on the inside of the o-line.

 

[Rob0729]

I think Denver is about the same if not better than last year. If the Patriots made some of their moves, people here would be up in arms celebrating. The fact is, they're a worthy adversary.

If Denver finishes with a similar or better record than 2013, they'll be difficult to beat given the opponents they will have beaten.

IDK, I was on the fence about the Pats re-signing Talib. If Revis wasn't available, I would have said he was the best option for the Pats based on the market. People seem to judge the guy now based on six games in his career and not the rest of his career.

TJ Ward and Ware are good moves, but people are making too much out of them. Ward was overrated in free agency this year because he was the best safety available of a mediocre class. He is a hard hitter and strong against the run and mediocre in coverage. Ware could be a great addition if he returns to his 2011 form, but grossly overpaid if he is the same guy of the last two years.

I was happy when the Pats signed Sanders to an offer sheet a year ago, but I was never predicting the type of numbers people think he is going to get in Denver. It seems that a 1,000 yard season looks to be the worst case scenario for him according to most people.

The Broncos made some potentially very good to outstanding moves this offseason, but none of them are guarantees. The way people talk about it, you would think Talib is guaranteed to be what he was the first six games of the season last year, Ware will return to his DPOY type form and Sanders is guaranteed to get at least 1,000 yards. All of these things can happen, but there is also a chance that Talib gets injured early in the season and struggles most of the year, Ware's decline the last two years is what he is, and Sanders doesn't even sniff a 1,000 yards.

 

[ausbacker]

IDK, I was on the fence about the Pats re-signing Talib. If Revis wasn't available, I would have said he was the best option for the Pats based on the market. People seem to judge the guy now based on six games in his career and not the rest of his career.

TJ Ward and Ware are good moves, but people are making too much out of them. Ward was overrated in free agency this year because he was the best safety available of a mediocre class. He is a hard hitter and strong against the run and mediocre in coverage. Ware could be a great addition if he returns to his 2011 form, but grossly overpaid if he is the same guy of the last two years.

I was happy when the Pats signed Sanders to an offer sheet a year ago, but I was never predicting the type of numbers people think he is going to get in Denver. It seems that a 1,000 yard season looks to be the worst case scenario for him according to most people.

The Broncos made some potentially very good to outstanding moves this offseason, but none of them are guarantees. The way people talk about it, you would think Talib is guaranteed to be what he was the first six games of the season last year, Ware will return to his DPOY type form and Sanders is guaranteed to get at least 1,000 yards. All of these things can happen, but there is also a chance that Talib gets injured early in the season and struggles most of the year, Ware's decline the last two years is what he is, and Sanders doesn't even sniff a 1,000 yards.

It's more the opinion that the Broncos shouldn't be discounted simply because we believe the Patriots made better moves than the Broncos during the offseason.

The Patriots needed a taller WR and signed LaFell. The Broncos went for a speedy, possession type and signed Sanders. Both teams tried to fill needs and both, on face value, appear to have done so as best they could.

The simple reality is the signings will either work or they won't but I'm not stupid enough to discount Denver as readily as some.

 

[Joker]

Did New England and the other 30 teams in the league NOT watch the Super Bowl?

Forget the additions and subtractions...rush Manning up the middle and get him OFF his spot, he's cooked. It IS that simple.

Seattle's Cliff Avril bull-rushed through Broncos right tackle Orlando Franklin and smashed into Manning as the Denver passer looked for Knowshon Moreno. The ball fluttered as Moreno waited for it to land in his hands, but Seattle linebacker Malcolm Smith sprinted ahead of the stationary Moreno to pick off the pass.​

Seattle Seahawks obliterate Peyton Manning, Denver Broncos 43-8 in Super Bowl 2014 | NOLA.com

OK...let me put it THIS way... the entire lineup of adversaries Denver will face this season SAW HIM GET OBLITERATED. The tape does not lie...pressure him out of his little Omaha comfort zone and he's worse than MARK SANCHEZ. Let him stand there and hurl his flutterducks untouched and he'll run out of receivers before completions. Seattle has shown the league the way, you have to be a moron team to NOT emulate them in some fashion.