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Are the Bills trying to copy the recent success of New England?

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PATRIOT64, Jul 12, 2007.

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  1. PATRIOT64

    PATRIOT64 Rookie

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    In my link below,the guy writing the article does make a valid point and I did not realize it until I read this that in reality,I think the Bills let those 3 outstanding players in Fletcher,Clements and Spikes just walk out the door without resistance because they think they can duplicate what New England has done over the years and that is simply do not overpay for a player and if he does not accept the offer let him walk with no apprehension or hesitation.

    I really think this is the Bills philosophy but there is one problem - The Bills do not have Belichick or Pioli to pull off letting key players go and don't have the overall talent to overcome these types of moves.

    I think the Bills will find out like many other teams who in the future will let their aging but best players go that is you cannot duplicate what NE has done unless you have the FO capable of doing so - Not many teams have a strong FO and coach combos like the Patriots and many will regret losing those players and trying to replace them,some will succeed,many others will fail

    I think the copycat Bills will regret this to a record of something like 5-11 this year,They did well in getting Whitner last year and had a good draft this year in getting Lynch and the other rookies but it will be awhile and a few years before it shows on the teams record.

    http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2007/07/bills_hope_patriotsstyle_perso.html
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2007
  2. solman

    solman Rookie

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    The Bills have announced their intention not to spend up to the cap (or more precisely, to spend a total amount equal to their cap allocation [which is effectively the same thing]).

    They can not be compared to the Patriots because the money they save will go into the pockets of the owners, and not into new players.
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The author, Anthony Biali, does not google well but it looks like he is a homer affiliated with Western NY. OTOH, what they seem to be forgetting is keeping the hard nosed veteran who knows how to win al a Willy McGinnest, Ty Law et al.
  4. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I give the Bills a degree of credit for their willingness to take a step backwards in order to move forward - which is what they are doing this season.

    But the whole "team oriented" player - especially ones willing to play for less than top dollar is dependent on two things... having a coach/team leader they believe in, and more importantly, winning.

    The article misses the point that the players on the Patriots wouldn't be running through walls for a guy who was only giving them 8-8 seasons, nor would they take less than top dollar value.

    And while I applaud the Bills for trying to get high caliber players with the right attitude part of me questions how many of these guys there are in the NFL and indeed, those that are out there are attracted to a team and coach such that the Patriots offer.

    So a sincere best of luck to the Bills if this is indeed their plan - but its a lot tougher than the Patriots made it look.
  5. c_nice_37

    c_nice_37 Rookie

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    Exactly. The Bills are the TB Devil Rays of the AFC East.

    Sorry for the baseball analogy, but they are becoming pathetic.
  6. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    The Bills made some dumb moves under Donahoe, but nothing compared to the devastating incompetence of Bobby Grier.

    The Patriots had no young core of players (only Seymour) and won the first couple with a lot of retread veterans. We're still building the young core of the next generation.

    I think Buffalo has some good young talent, but they're a couple years away. Why spend a fortune on players that won't get you to the playoffs, or don't want to play there? (MacGahee).

    If they're filling in with affordable vets while letting the kids mature, I think they're smart. They'll spend the money when it leads to playoff success, because that's all that matters.

    Levy's pretty old, but i think he's proven he knows how to compete consistently.
  7. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    Hard to respond to an article whose premise is totally wrong.

    What big salaried players did the Pats heartlessly cut to win three super bowls?

    Bledsoe? He got injured then beat out for the job. Not Ty Law. they were quite happy to pay that huge contract for a while.

    Milloy? It was a good move.

    Like every other team doesn't cut players. why not check our retention of players next to the Redskins. Now who treats players as expendable?

    Don't get me wrong, there are teams that hang on to players who can't play and acquire "name" free agents who can't play anymore.

    The only thing we do differently is judging when a player can still play and when his dollars outweigh his abilities.

    The actual Buffalo situation is that the young core, is not going to mature until the present stars retire. Yes, you can acquire leadership for cheap if you're smart.

    The Patriots never had a young core and aging vets, they always had a blend. They did have vets they would have liked to keep whose value got bid up.
  8. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    Bingo.

    The Patriots have never been about not paying guys big money. They have been about not paying big money to guys that weren't worth big money.

    It seems that both the media and other teams have misinterpreted this.
  9. NE39

    NE39 Rookie

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    They may be trying, but they are doing a crappy job of it.

    I also doubt they are thinking too long-term. Ralph Wilson is no spring chicken and isn't going to wait around forever for results. Marv Levy is the oldest GM in the NFL (older than Al Davis).

    The Pats have always been a value organization when it comes to players. They value a player at a certain amount, and let the player go if they don't meet that value. They bring in veterans who can still play roles because they are good values for the money. They figure they can coach those players up.

    It is true the Bills are letting some players go in FA, but they overpay for FA (although they may have to to get them to Buffalo considering they haven't won in a while). Last year they overpaid players like Josh Reed, Peerless Price, Robert Royal and Melvin Fowler. This year they overpaid for guys like Derrick Dockery, Chris Kelsay and Langston Walker. Those players were paid over what their previous production warranted, something the Pats would never do.

    The Bills are a very young team with a lot of draft picks from the last couple years playing. They have some talented young players, but they lack depth in a lot of areas (especially on defense). They are hoping their young players develop quickly with playing time and are willing to play them. Their defense doesn't look real good. Their offense should be better if J.P. Losman continues to improve and establishes himself (no sure thing).

    They are nothing like the Patriots.
  10. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    I think your point is correct, but I don't lke the phrasing. Welker, for instance, had not earned as much as NE gave him. But it looks like a near sure thing that he will. Future production is the key factor, not past, which is a key ingrediant that seperates NE's FO - and other good FOs - from the poor.

    You are correct, though. Buffalo jettisoned some higher priced guys, and then they just gave that lot of money to guys that don't appear to be woth it.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2007
  11. patfanken

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    The only Patriot-like thing the Bills did this off season was to invest there money in the the true infrastructure of a team and invest heavily in their OL. Teams are built from the lines out. While I understand their reluctance to overpay skill player, they felt no such compunction to over pay the OLmen they brought in, and depending on who you listen to....overpay by a LOT.

    Another thing that the Pats have that the Bills don't is Tom Brady. His ability to make the most out of the least, allows the Pats FO much more flexibility. I don't think we appreciate the impact he has had on this franchise, and probably won't until he is gone and replaced by a very good QB, but NOT...Tom Brady

    That being said, however, when the day comes and he is replaced, and the next QB, who ever he is, comes close to duplicating his success, then we will know for certain that the true genius in the Pats success HAS been the "SYSTEM"

    Hopefully it will be close to another decade before we have that observation to look forward to.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2007
  12. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    duplicate post
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2007
  13. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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    I hear a lot about how NE invested "in their lines' but in reality they only put much of anything into their DL. The OL, with the exception of one second rounder, was a collection of UDFAs, low tier FAs or low round picks until Mankins came along. They cultivated an OL, they did not invest much at all.
  14. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    Not at first, Oswlek, but if you notice that since 2004 they have drafted Mankins and resigned Koppen, Light, AND Neal to new and more expensive deals. BTW- because they were proactive with their OL and resigned everyone BEFORE their contracts ran out, the got their OL for a reasonable price, but still, it is NO LONGER a bargain basement OL. Clearly solidifying their OL by making a significant investment was a major priority for the FO
  15. Pat_the_Patriot

    Pat_the_Patriot Rookie

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    This is what I've been harping about... I disagree that the Bills are tyring to emulate the Patriots... I think that the Bills are trying to become a successful football team. To me, what they are attempting to do is some sort of cross between the Pats, the Steelers, and the Broncos.

    They understand that they were put in a bad position (much like we were) with prior coaches and GMs... they further understand that they have to play a VERY competitive division every year... and the way to combat that is through the draft, through your trenches, and through your long term perspective.

    Leaving aside the obvious pitfall that is their ownerships decision to spend less than cap... along with their inability to front the same type of money as the large market teams with signing bonuses... the Bills have been rebuilding for a few years now.... yes, Mularkey didn't get it done on the field... but his draft classes were pretty good.... and Juaron seems to be just the type of guy to bring them to the next level.

    With their core players.... the season really comes down to JP Losman... I believe that he can/will play well enough (even with their sched.) for them to be "in the hunt" for the last playoff spot in week 12/13. I also think that they have the best shot at coming in second in the AFC East this year.

    Does that mean that they are "good"... no... but, I believe that they are on the right path and are moving UP... they could be a problem for us in the years to come... more so than than the Jets and the Fins anyways.

    Just my opinion... but they are better than the 2-14 team folks think that they are.
  16. PatsFan37

    PatsFan37 Rookie

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    The problem is that so much comes down to the ability of a team to scout players. Both in terms of self-scouting -- who they can allow to walk -- and external scouting, how much to pay or how high to draft new players.

    Buffalo won't have a chance until they get that under control. It may be early to know about Losman, but they have recently seemed to draft poorly with their early and expensive picks. They seemed to overpay for the FA's.

    The Patriots have made their share of mistakes, but their first-rounder draft picks have been superb and their big-money FA's are generally good as well. They have had a workable plan when letting key veterans leave (lucky with Gostkowski or smart, I don't know, and unlucky with Branch or dumb, I don't know).

    Like the Patriots, the Colts, the Eagles, and the Chargers seem to know what they're doing. The Bills are not in that class and it shows in the W-L column.
  17. NE39

    NE39 Rookie

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    I don't think they are a 2-14 team, but they aren't better than .500. They are a young team with potential offensively (if Losman and Lynch can live up to their talent).

    They aren't real good anywhere on defense. I like Donte Whitner, but the rest of their secondary is suspect. They have a couple decnet young LB, but no depth to speak of there. They have a good, effort-type pass rusher in Schobel, but nobody up front who really scares teams into paying extra attention to them.

    The Bills have drafted pretty well the last couple seasons. However, they have overpaid for middle-tier FA. Their FO made a couple questionable moves by first agreeing to not franchise Clements this year if he played last year (thus not being able to trade him, which is what they should have done) and then trading for Darwin Walker after he told them he wanted a contract extension. Now, he will head back to Philly.

    The Jets are in better shape than the Bills or Dolphins, and the only team that possibly can challenge the Pats right now in the Division. Neither the Bills or Dolphins are ready to compete at that level.
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2007
  18. Pat_the_Patriot

    Pat_the_Patriot Rookie

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    Well... like the man said "That's why the play the games"

    It's all talk until they take the field anyways... we all have our own opinions... I've been wrong before, and I'm sure that I'll be wrong again! I just hope that I'm not wrong about the Pats this year.
  19. Jacky Roberts

    Jacky Roberts Rookie

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    The Bills are an awful franchise and should relocate. Buffalo is just an armpit and their fans are pathetic. Remember when they beat up a Pats fan and his pregnant wife? I'm glad they suck.
  20. Asante4prez

    Asante4prez Rookie

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    You forgot McGahee, overrated as he may be he's definitely at least a "good" player
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