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Are people like the Pope in a special category?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Patters, Jan 7, 2007.

  1. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In this forum, we have often saved our harshest language for people like Bush, Kennedy, Sheehan, Cheney, Osama bin Laden, the Pope, etc. But, now, at least two people have implied that insulting the Pope is akin to insulting Catholicism, so to call the Pope a name -- and I have called him a Nazi, given his past membership in the Hitler Youth -- is an act of prejudice against Catholics, and thus against the rules of the forum.

    We can say that people like the Pope are in a special category, but would that also include people like Ayatollah Ali Khamenei of Iran? Is he in a special category too? What about Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell or Martin Luther King, who some believe the Lord communicates through? What about past Popes, such as those Popes who incited the Inquisition? I think it would be difficult to put Popes off limits from harsh criticism.

    Although I don't think the Pope should be off limits, it's worth discussing the question and finding out what people in the forum think. If we did have a rule, what would it say?
  2. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    The pope is NOT off limits. As you said, if he is, then every politician is. At the very least, anyone who claims to have a special relationship with God is, and that would include Bush, not to mention someone who was in the Hitler Youth and has power (monetary as well as psychological) over many more people than the POTUS. You might as well close the political forum if you put on such a restriction.

    Those who believe that the pope is "god's representative on Earth" have a right to that belief, just as anyone else is entitled to their belief that he is just another politician.
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The Pope Is Fair Game

    And So Is Allah
  4. BruschiOnTap

    BruschiOnTap Rookie

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    Anybody who formerly held the post of Grand Inquisitor is fair game
  5. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    NO ONE expects the Spanish Inquisition!
    :rocker:
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Guys, and gals, make fun of, criticize, and support whomever you want. Just understand that what you say will have a backlash. If someone in here wants to say that homosexuals are X, or catholics are Y, or Blacks are Z, etc...go ahead. So long as you remember that your actions will draw responses. Don't go offending people, or offending something you know they hold dear, and then expect them to be happy about it. Worse off, don't go criticize a figure of such importance, and then close the thread like a wussy when people call you out on it.

    Just my 2 cents. :D
  7. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I think my thoughts on this subject have already been well established but, for some reason, you seemed interested in having me reply directly to this thread so I shall restate my opinions...

    1) Firstly, I maintain my opinion that moderators should not post on contentious subjects. Patters has demonstrated his own hypocrisy and bias against conservatives in this forum, and given much more leeway to liberals. I would much more respect the opinion of a moderator who was above the fray much more than one who is a willing participant in the fray.

    2) The political forum should have (and, I believe, does have) more leeway than the football forums. If you enter a poltical forum you should expect to see a lot of contentious arguing from both sides. It's all part of the game of posting here.

    3) There should be consistency applied across the board. If someone can insult Catholics, then others can insult the gays. If someone can insult white people, then others can insult hispanics. My biggest issue isn't when someone insults the Pope, but rather with the double standard being applied.

    4) An individual has every right to respond to someone who criticizes the Pope or Hispanics or gays or whatever and call that person a bigot, a hypocrite, a racist, whatever. Patters, I know you think you're a good liberal who is tolerant and open minded and accepting of diversity but fact is you are the leading bigot and most closed minded individual in this forum.

    Does that answer the question..?
  8. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There is a difference here, essentially this is a private board, and Ian should weigh in on what he believes the limits should be. We can suggest whatever we want, however he has final say. There are other venues, i.e. white supremist boards.. that you can pretty much say what you want to say, this is a different place and has fairly high standards.
  9. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I think people need to lighten up, wake up, and and be more realistic. If you insult Mohamed, a muslim may take offense. If you insult the pope, a catholic may take offense. If you insult homosexuals, a homosexual may take offense. If you insult Massachusetts, Seymour in Texas might take offense, and of course, if you insult his inflatable doll, Agenda Boy might take offense.


    Kidding! :D
  10. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A couple other people have expressed similar sentiments, but most people seem at least reasonably content with the way things are. Ian certainly is. I have challenged people time and again to look through the threads and posts I censored and prove to me that I apply an uneven hand. I don't deny I make mistakes, but I try to only get involved when things get obviously out of hand.

    It does have much more leeway. I rarely censor things, but if you look at the posts of yours that I censored, and I'll be glad to pull one up, you delivered a long list of insults with very little substance. I have censored others who did the same thing.

    There is consistency across the board. I censor general attacks on Christians, gays, Hispanics, blacks, though its very rare that someone does that. As far as the Pope goes, he's an individual, and there are a great many Catholics who do not regard him the same way you do. At any rate, censoring criticism of the Pope would require us to also censor criticism of other religious leaders, such as the Ayatollah of Iran.

    In this forum, because of rules requested by Ian, we don't allow stereotyping or personal attacks. Insulting the Pope, Bush, Kerry, bin Laden, Hillary, Cheney, Michael Moore, Cindy Sheehan, Gene Robinson (the gay Episcopal bishop), or any other prominent individual is not an act of stereotyping. If I called Catholics Nazis that would be against the rules of the forum, but I did not do that. Do you understand the issue here?

    Even with stereotypes, I simply ask that people qualify generalizations by saying "some" or "most" gays, women, blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, Catholics, Arabs, etc.
  11. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Putting On My Moderator's Hat

    Based on the input here, we will not put the Pope in a special category. In this forum, the rules remain as they are--you cannot launch personal attacks against other members of Patsfans.Com and you cannot stereotype people based on their race, religion, gender, ethnicity, and sexual preference.

    But you can insult the Pope, the Ayatollah, Kennedy, Bush, and any other public figure and you can insult people of a particular political persuasion, e.g., Republicans, Democrats, liberals, and conservatives.

    When you think about it, we're paralleling libel, hate, and anti-discrimination laws. Hate and anti-discrimination laws make it illegal to discriminate against a group and libel laws largely protect the right of the public to insult public figures.
  12. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Re: Putting On My Moderator's Hat

    Despite your and sdaniels' attempts to deliberately misrepresent everything I have said, no one is asking the Pope (or any other public figure) be placed in a separate category. All I have ever requested is that you stop being such a hypocrite with regards to censoring only certain political points of view. You've demonstrated your anti-Catholic bigotry, and that's perfectly fine because this is America and you have a Constitutional right to be a bigot. But then you turn around and gladly censor those with opposing points of view.

    This is another reason I don't think you, as a moderator, should be allowed to participate in the often rancorous debates in this forum. If you want to moderate, you shouldn't participate.
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Putting On My Moderator's Hat

    I think you're the only one who doesn't understand the issue at this point. Insulting the Pope is not the same as insulting Catholics. Furthermore, this discussion only came up because I deleted your vulgar personal attacks. I wish you were honest enough to admit that.

    The last time I closed a thread because it attacked a group, the group it attacked was "Christians." I have not deleted any posts, except those that contain PERSONAL ATTACKS. I have had to close only a handful of threads because they attacked a group. So, really, QuiGon, the only example you have of what you're accusing me of is the example for which I apologized. What the F are you talking about? Offer some proof of what you're saying.

    As far as your theory of moderators, thank you for sharing.
  14. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Re: Putting On My Moderator's Hat

    Bullsht. Calling a man that Catholics see as Christ's representative here on Earth a Nazi is an insult to the entire religion. Stop trying to weasel your way out of your own bigotry.

    Just as soon as you admit you're too biased to serve impartially as a moderator in a political forum.

    It's my pleasure. Since you apparently disagree with that statement, I am sure it is on the short list of posts that may potentially and conveniently disappear with nary a trace.
  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Putting On My Moderator's Hat

    Can we insult Obama (big ears, arrogant, looks like a jerk in a bathing suit, spoiled brat, uppity, ect)

    Hillary (Hollywood dumped the Clintons :singing: )
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Re: Putting On My Moderator's Hat

    Try calling Martin Luther King a "Nazi" and watch how fast the shotguns come out.
  17. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Re: Putting On My Moderator's Hat

    No, we may not. Barrack Hussein Obama is a liberal and therefore off limits for insult or ridicule.
  18. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Why has Hollywood "dumped" the Clintons, they were all like family, Sharon Stone said she used to have Orgasms just looking at Billy Blue Dress bite his lip, what has the little boy Obama done to win over the hearts of all the "Show Biz Wife Swappers".

    Will Obama now "lose votes" after all, your known by the company you keep but maybe he won't the country is going to hell anyway Hollywood has done more than it's share in the dumbing down of the country.

    We are in big trouble if this kid should ever get elected, can you just imagine what will happen in America if Obama becomes The Commander In Chief Of The Armed Services :singing: :singing:

    You f-cking liberals will all be dead, bombs will going off all across the country, the Sex Fiend Movie Stars will be running around trying to get out of the country yelling "don't kill us we love you Mohammad"
    :singing:

    I see trees of green
    Red Roses Too
    I see them bloom
    For me and for you
    And I say to myself
    What a wonderful world.
  19. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    All minorities are off limits too, aren't they ?
  20. 3 to be 4

    3 to be 4 Rookie

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    I think you have to use common sense and a touch of sensitivity on these issues. I, myself, am not a Catholic, but to Catholics, the Pope is revered. to Catholics, it is not akin to Bush, Clinton etc etc.
    Each group have certain things and people it holds dear. For Jewish people. going after Ann Frank would be beyond good taste. For Christians, Jesus Christ. For Muslims, Allah.
    Maybe making light or making rude comments about Matthew Shepard would bother Homosexuals. Taking on Martin Luther King or Rosa Parks would be insensitive to Blacks.

    What im saying is, this should be common sense and common decency. To start the thread was inflammatory I believe, but not surprising considering the source.
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2007

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