Arbitrator: Goodell Can't Delegate on "Conduct Detrimental to the League"

[Ivan]

"Yep."
But, what's your point? That's the way the game is played. Clement played it well. Kessler came across like a deer in the headlights.
If your point is that that is "wrong," I agree, but unfortunately that fact is almost irrelevant.

The fact that arguing to the 2nd highest Court in the land is considered "the game" shows just how low the justice system in this country has sunk. The fact that a former Solicitor General is willing to lie to the 2nd Court of Appeals makes it even worse. It's one thing for a defense attorney to mislead a jury in defense of their client it's another altogether when attorneys are allowed to actually lie to appeals courts. Imo they should be disbarred for it. It isn't "a game" when someone's reputation and large amounts of money are on the line, it's real life with real repercussions. If it's a game and Brady loses then F.ck it, Brady should go waste the Supreme Court's time.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

The fact that arguing to the 2nd highest Court in the land is considered "the game" shows just how low the justice system in this country has sunk. The fact that a former Solicitor General is willing to lie to the 2nd Court of Appeals makes it even worse. It's one thing for a defense attorney to mislead a jury in defense of their client it's another altogether when attorneys are allowed to actually lie to appeals courts. Imo they should be disbarred for it. It isn't "a game" when someone's reputation and large amounts of money are on the line, it's real life with real repercussions. If it's a game and Brady loses then F.ck it, Brady should go waste the Supreme Court's time.

I gave that an "Agree."

But, unfortunately people who are familiar with the judicial process in most major cities and at the federal level can all tell us stories that will make us sick, especially if we are on the wrong side of them. Brady was fortunate and Goodell/Wells/Vincent/Pash were unpleasantly surprised when they drew a Judge in Judge Berman who is one of the exceptions to the rule. If they had drawn the kind of "corporatist," ambitious Judge looking to make a name for him/herself that Goodell had expected to draw in New York, this likely would have turned out very differently.

I still think that Berman's ruling is fairly bulletproof, despite the questions that seemed to flummox an apparently inadequately prepared Kessler during the Appeal. I think the worst that happens is that the case gets remanded to Berman with instructions to consider the aspects on which the Appellate Judges focused in their questions and to which they possibly didn't feel Berman gave enough attention. In that event, a very annoyed Judge Berman would take several months to set a Hearing date and another few months to issue a ruling in favor of Brady and the whole mess will return to the Court of Appeals. But I think Berman will be upheld, with perhaps a snarky dissent.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

But that's why most lawyers can and do go to hell.

There's no denying that most lawyers "can" go to hell. Whether they actually "do" go to hell is a matter of one's own religious beliefs.

So, and Engineer dies and Meets St Peter at the Gates of Heaven
Peter looks in his book and says "According to Transaction # 294658263 you're not supposed to be here and sends him right down to Hell.
Time passes.
The engineer, bored with Hell, installs an air conditioning system. Next project up is escalators between the different levels of Hell. Project after project. Place is wicked improved.
Eventually God looks down and says What The....? stoping himself just in time.
Perplexed, he phones up the Devil and asks "What the Hell is going on?"
(This is OK to say because it actually IS Hell that he's talking about here)
The Devil, pleased as punch, rattles off the long list of the Engineer's accomplishments telling God that the Engineer has made things really nice and is very popular down here.
God is not amused and says, "It's a mistake an Engineer is down there in the first place. Send him back up here right away!"
The Devil, being of course you know, THE DEVIL says, "No!"
God is, we won't say wicked pissed, but he's NOT happy. Says "Send him up RIGHT NOW or I'll sue!"
The Devil laughs hysterically.
While hanging up says, "Good luck finding a Lawyer up there!"

 

[PatsFanSince74]

So, and Engineer dies and Meets St Peter at the Gates of Heaven
Peter looks in his book and says "According to Transaction # 294658263 you're not supposed to be here and sends him right down to Hell.
Time passes.
The engineer, bored with Hell, installs an air conditioning system. Next project up is escalators between the different levels of Hell. Project after project. Place is wicked improved.
Eventually God looks down and says What The....? stoping himself just in time.
Perplexed, he phones up the Devil and asks "What the Hell is going on?"
(This is OK to say because it actually IS Hell that he's talking about here)
The Devil, pleased as punch, rattles off the long list of the Engineer's accomplishments telling God that the Engineer has made things really nice and is very popular down here.
God is not amused and says, "It's a mistake an Engineer is down there in the first place. Send him back up here right away!"
The Devil, being of course you know, THE DEVIL says, "No!"
God is, we won't say wicked pissed, but he's NOT happy. Says "Send him up RIGHT NOW or I'll sue!"
The Devil laughs hysterically.
While hanging up says, "Good luck finding a Lawyer up there!"

Thanks! I'll steal that!

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Guy walks into a bar muttering, assholes, assholes all lawyers are assholes. Guy yells, hey I resent that, other guy says "are you a lawyer", the guy says " no, I'm an ***hole".

 

[Ivan]

I gave that an "Agree."

But, unfortunately people who are familiar with the judicial process in most major cities and at the federal level can all tell us stories that will make us sick, especially if we are on the wrong side of them. Brady was fortunate and Goodell/Wells/Vincent/Pash were unpleasantly surprised when they drew a Judge in Judge Berman who is one of the exceptions to the rule. If they had drawn the kind of "corporatist," ambitious Judge looking to make a name for him/herself that Goodell had expected to draw in New York, this likely would have turned out very differently.

I still think that Berman's ruling is fairly bulletproof, despite the questions that seemed to flummox an apparently inadequately prepared Kessler during the Appeal. I think the worst that happens is that the case gets remanded to Berman with instructions to consider the aspects on which the Appellate Judges focused in their questions and to which they possibly didn't feel Berman gave enough attention. In that event, a very annoyed Judge Berman would take several months to set a Hearing date and another few months to issue a ruling in favor of Brady and the whole mess will return to the Court of Appeals. But I think Berman will be upheld, with perhaps a snarky dissent.

Great post, appreciate your take on it 74'. I think they are going to uphold Berman despite the tenor of the questioning, but I honestly don't know how much credence they will put in the briefs, which was a series of bold faced lies from the League.

I still don't get how the Brady Team could have been surprised by the tactics Clement employed when they hired Steffan Johnson to make sure they were covered for that level of appeal.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Great post, appreciate your take on it 74'. I think they are going to uphold Berman despite the tenor of the questioning, but I honestly don't know how much credence they will put in the briefs, which was a series of bold faced lies from the League.

I still don't get how the Brady Team could have been surprised by the tactics Clement employed when they hired Steffan Johnson to make sure they were covered for that level of appeal.

Agree on all fronts. I was dumbfounded that Johnson didn't argue the Appeal himself. I don't think he would have been caught as flatfooted as Kessler, who apparently came prepared to rehash the original Hearing, when he should have anticipated that the Judges would regard those arguments as having been covered and devote their questions to the territory that they felt was left uncovered during the Berman proceedings.

 

[PatsFanSince74]

Great post, appreciate your take on it 74'. I think they are going to uphold Berman despite the tenor of the questioning, but I honestly don't know how much credence they will put in the briefs, which was a series of bold faced lies from the League.

I still don't get how the Brady Team could have been surprised by the tactics Clement employed when they hired Steffan Johnson to make sure they were covered for that level of appeal.

Thanks for the "Agree" on my prior post.

One other thought. I was amazed at how many people out here were infuriated by the lines of questioning of Chin and Parker during the Appeal. They were just doing what Appeals' judges do. They ignored what had been covered during the SDNY proceedings and went after those areas that they thought hadn't been covered and looked to Kessler to address them and put them to rest; it's not uncommon for Appeals judges to be abrasive and in Counsel's face when they do that. Instead of calmly addressing the issues it appears that Kessler lost his cool and suggested that the Judges had a "predetermined" view on the case (or words to that effect). But, I don't think that that will be enough to lead two of the three judges to overturn Berman.

 

[zipster9]

Can either side still submit information at this time? pertaining to the deflate-gate appeal to the 3 judges (moe, curley, larry)?
I mean even if the 3 judges decide Mr. Brady is guilty, it should be dismissed due to the breach of protocol.

Also, anyone hear when the date for their decision?

 

[zydecochris]

So, and Engineer dies and Meets St Peter at the Gates of Heaven
Peter looks in his book and says "According to Transaction # 294658263 you're not supposed to be here and sends him right down to Hell.
Time passes.
The engineer, bored with Hell, installs an air conditioning system. Next project up is escalators between the different levels of Hell. Project after project. Place is wicked improved.
Eventually God looks down and says What The....? stoping himself just in time.
Perplexed, he phones up the Devil and asks "What the Hell is going on?"
(This is OK to say because it actually IS Hell that he's talking about here)
The Devil, pleased as punch, rattles off the long list of the Engineer's accomplishments telling God that the Engineer has made things really nice and is very popular down here.
God is not amused and says, "It's a mistake an Engineer is down there in the first place. Send him back up here right away!"
The Devil, being of course you know, THE DEVIL says, "No!"
God is, we won't say wicked pissed, but he's NOT happy. Says "Send him up RIGHT NOW or I'll sue!"
The Devil laughs hysterically.
While hanging up says, "Good luck finding a Lawyer up there!"

One of my favorite jokes, thanks! Plus, it is interesting to see this variation of it, in the one I'm used to when God sees the improvements he says that "there shouldn't be any engineers in Hell" (kind of like all dogs go to heaven, and I'm close enough to an engineer to like that part) and the first renovation was the installation of flush toilets.

 

[XLIX]

Can either side still submit information at this time? pertaining to the deflate-gate appeal to the 3 judges (moe, curley, larry)?
I mean even if the 3 judges decide Mr. Brady is guilty, it should be dismissed due to the breach of protocol.

Also, anyone hear when the date for their decision?

We won't know the date for the decision until we have the decision in hand. 6 to 12 months is common, but these guys promised they would do it quickly, so I'm expecting it will liven up the dog days of summer, certainly before the start of the season.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

One of my favorite jokes, thanks! Plus, it is interesting to see this variation of it, in the one I'm used to when God sees the improvements he says that "there shouldn't be any engineers in Hell" (kind of like all dogs go to heaven, and I'm close enough to an engineer to like that part) and the first renovation was the installation of flush toilets.

Since I have zero wetware storage for jokes, I simply remembered the basic concept and "made **** up."
Wish I'd remembered God's statement & the flush toilets part.