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Arab Specialist on French Television speaks on Iraq situation

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Oct 29, 2006.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    As many of you know the War in Iraq isn't/wasn't popular in France. These comments were made on French TV. Hopefully this guy is correct in his assesment. IF he is correct then shame on the MSM and the cowardly pols who undermine our efforts and the sacrifices of our soldiers in Iraq.

    http://www.france5.fr/cdanslair/008322/0/138269.cfm



    Hopefully we don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.If we lose Iraq we will extend the WOT for another generation beyond the long struggle against the Islamist extremist.


    From Amir Taheri:

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/1029200...y_fails_opedcolumnists_amir_taheri.htm?page=1


    There is also some evidence emerging that Sadr is beginning to back down. IF he does it will be a very positive sign, and would derail a possible civil war.

    From the Kuwaiti News agency:
    http://www.kuna.net.kw/home/story.aspx?Language=en&DSNO=916222
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    There are still a handful of experts out there who believe that the war is going well, and that change is truly underfoot in Iraq. Let's hope they're right, but I think in the best case we have planted the seeds of democracy, and they may bloom over the next few decades. In the meantime, our current contribution is creating a cause celebre for anti-American feelings worldwide. At any rate, as your bold face type implies, his comments may serve those Republicans who will never admit to Bush's Iraqi mistake.

    Where is the quote and translation from? I'm not great in French, but I could not find either at the link you provided?
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The people that say the war is lost are the Haters, they don't give a sh!t about the war it's Bush their after, they want him to fail, they pray that we lose, most all of the American Liberal Media want us to fail, CBS & The NY Times top the list.

    If we lose, if we cut and run, if we surrender, there will be dancing in the streets in the middle east, if we lose, there will also be dancing in the streets of San Francisco, Cambridge Ma, and Hollywood.
    :bricks:
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Harry, tell me a war that you were opposed to? Were you opposed because you hated our President or opposed because you thought the war was wrong? Or was there never a war you opposed?

    If we leave Iraq, there will be dancing in the streets. Is that what you oppose? What would you prefer?
  5. patsfan13

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    It's reassuring to know that you (NEM) and the MSM know more about the Arabs than the Arabs....
  6. IcyPatriot

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    #87 Jersey

    I agree with your point here Patters. While the Bush admin should have been fertilizing they continued to water the grass and now have too much rot and mold.
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2006
  7. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Very well put!
  8. Turk

    Turk Rookie

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    Well said, FBN.
  9. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    An allusion to the movie Being There?

    Cool
  10. IcyPatriot

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    Last edited: Oct 29, 2006
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't think enough of you are capable of truly understanding what is at stake in Iraq. The war shouldn't be about a party or a president, it should be about what is at stake, and how important it is for us to succeed. I was not in favor of the invasion in 2003. I understood it, but didn't like it. That aside, once we broke it, we owned it. The outcome in Iraq will shape the next 50-100 years of humanity. It's too bad more of you are incapable of understanding that.
  12. patsfan13

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  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Quite arrogant of you RealWorld to think that you can understand something that people of all political and philosophical persuasions have been struggling to understand.

    I think what you're missing is that we all agree pretty much on the overall goal of bringing democracy, human rights, and peace to the Middle East. The difference is that many people don't think war is the solution. Many people think that war creates more enemies and more instability then existed the first place. Many people, myself included, are more interested in preventing the conditions that cause crime and feed anger; while the conservative simply react after the problem becomes too serious -- thus, the word reactionary. You're right that we own Iraq, but I truly believe that $400 billion spent helping people will yield a greater return than $400 billion spent killing people.
  14. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Like I said, it's too bad so many of you are incapable of understanding what is at stake in Iraq.
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes, at stake is our reputation and relationship with much of the world. Now that we've turned more of the world against us than anytime since the Cold War, our stakes have certainly increased, and staying in Iraq will simply ensure that we remain a primary target of terrorists around the world for years to come. Imagine if we used some of that $400 billion for peaceful purposes, we might have created more friends than enemies. But, hey, your view of the situation is a common one -- and perhaps the prevalent one up until the 1940s, when the world began to realize that war begets more hate and violence.
  16. patsfan13

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    So what specifically would you do with the 400B, frankly in the ME with their oil wealth money isn't the problem.

    Our reputation IS at stake. If we throw the new democracy in Iraq under the bus as the dems would have us do, no potential allies in the ME will EVER trust us again.

    read the full article linked to understand their perspective.

    Pacifism didn't defeat Hitler or the Communism, it won't defeat Islamist extremist.
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, it's my feeling that many people are driven to irrational acts of terrorism or other criminal doing because they are in desperate situations. To the extent we can use our money to address issues of world hunger, disease, and so on, I think it would be a good investment that would yield a good return. We also need to do what we can to press oppressive governments into reform. Unfortunately, because we depend on the Arab states oil, they have considerable leverage, so perhaps some of the money could be used to develop alternative sources of energy.

    I don't think we should just cut and run. We obviously need to pull out in a logical way, working with the Arab states and the UN to provide some level of security. The betting is that if we pull outin a rational way, , we'll also pull out the rug from under the feet of the terrorists. While there will always be some terrorists, right now I think we are the cause they are using to recruit people, and people who lost love ones are very angry at us.

    I did read the article, and respect the alternative point of view, but I think there's a growing consensus that the situation in Iraq is becoming more dangerous and less stable. Again, pulling out has to be done a rational and carefully coordinated manner. No one wants the troops to pack up and leave tomorrow. That would be a disaster. A phased pull out, with Arab and a UN contingent (which we might help in some ways) would be the best way.

    I don't favor pacifism, but the evidence is lacking that Iraq was a real threat to the United States. As I've said before, I don't think a war on terrorism should be fought like a war on Nazi Germany. Terrorists are criminals who blend in wherever they are.
  18. patsfan13

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  19. Holy Diver

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  20. Real World

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    Are we there Patters? Forget for a second how we got there, and whether or not the action was justified. All of that is now irrelevent under the circumstances. I, for one, prefered we were not there. The problem in using that as a basis for current thought is that we are. Therefore, we have two choices really. Stay, and move to ensure that we succeed, or withdraw, and suffer the consequences. My point, which to no surprise you are incapable of understanding, is that the consequences of failure are far worse than the sentiment of our peers. If, by your logic, we've already pissed everyone off by starting the war, then how would failure move to correct that? Failure, or withdrawl, would not only do nothing to satisfy your concern, but it would worsen the one region in the world that accounts for 80% of the worlds problems. Now, I know what your going to say, "we're the ones that made it worse", to which I would like to reply, the shiithole was already bad, and after decades of attempts at reform, was in no way getting better. Which brings me back to my original point. It's too bad so many do not understand what is at stake in Iraq.

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