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Approved new alcohol and television taxes in MA

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by NEPatriot, Jun 20, 2009.

  1. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    New taxes panned by the critics - The Boston Globe
    Welcome to democratic people party. What a way to help your supporters! If Obama has his way, we will be double taxed in alcohol at state and federal level.

    USA is broke and so are we. We will be the slaves of King Obama communist and socialist nation.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  2. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Oh, wow, the conservatives are freaking over an extra few dollars in taxes to help us in a time of a national economic crisis. Some patriots they are!

    I wonder how much I spend in MA per year. Maybe $200/week on taxable goods? Let's play it safe, and say $400/week -- food, entertainment, clothes, books, etc. That's $20,800/year x 1.25%=$260. I think if I go with Starbucks Americano rather than Lattes, it will cover it. At any rate, it's only $5/week. Not bad for living in a state that is so rich in history, sports, and culture, not to mention natural beauty, great hospitals, some of the world's best universities, and some courageous leaders who put us throughout our history on the vanguard of change.
  3. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    When you add all the taxes that you have to PAY in addition to any new taxes, you don't have any money left. If you want to pay, please go head and do it but don't ask me to do it because i didn't sign up for your BS changes and hopes.

    I don't buy in 'the more taxes you are willing to pay, the more patriot you are' crap because it's frankly stupid.

    When Obama asks you to pay more taxes, you will see what kind of beautiful life you are going to have. Please don't come back and complain about it when it happens.

    Please explain to me why I continue paying for all idiots' mistakes. Why can't I have a break? I don't work for the government. They work for me. When did we become their 'slaves'?
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  4. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's not it. We're in a crisis now, and we have bills to pay, and it's probably not a great idea to conduct massive layoffs right now. I'm not sure what you're talking about when you imply that the state is spending money on new programs. I think they're just trying to sensibly manage this crisis.

    Look, I'm all for paying taxes because taxes fund our schools, pave our roads, provide us with clean water, give us police and firefighting, protect our money and the legitimacy of our currency, provide us with courts, keep our air clean, ensure our medicines are safe, make sure our hospitals are clean, our restaurants don't spread disease, our sewers work reliably, our airlines are safe, our airwaves are properly shared, our telephone services are reliable, we get deliveries of oil, we protect ourselves from attack, we secure effective trade arrangements to get us the goods we crave, our mentally ill are taken care of, our poor are given basic provisions, our prisoners are locked up securely, etc. etc. Those things cost a lot of money, and they're part of living in a modern society. Sure, we will pay for idiotic mistakes (and certainly Bush made some), but you have no evidence yet that the MA tax hike or Obama's plans are idiotic. It's too early to tell.
  5. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rookie

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    Ahh, here we go. The failed policies of tax and spend. The state's at a point where the more they tax, the less revenue they will generate. When citizens are taxed more, well, they spend less - thus slowing economic growth. This all shows a lack of economic common sense.

    ~ Thomas Sowell
  6. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    They sure aren't temporary, which means either this recession will be permanent, the government knows they will not recind the taxes when (if) we recover, or the government is lying about being unable to cut spending.

    Do you think these taxes are permanent? I do. Therefor, they have nothing to do with the recession. They're more about using this "opportunity" to extent the authority of the state and get the incumbents re-elected.
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    If Patters wants to pay another $260 good for him; I'm guessing that MA, just like CA for me, has a spending problem not a revenue problem. Don't keep feeding the beast, it has an infinite appetite.
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Tax and spend hasn't failed. We had great years in the 1940s, even under Eisenhower when tax rates were as high as 90% and under JFK when tax rates were still as high as 70%. Ronald Reagan cut taxes, but not nearly as much as he increased deficit spending, so he bought us a few years of a good economy. It's true that when people are taxed they have less to spend, but it's only true if the economy doesn't grow. If the economy grows even a little, the increased taxes will be easily covered. If you don't get a raise to cover a $260 or so/year sales tax, then you're probably not valuable enough to your employer.
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It's interesting what's going on in CA. The state is in its current fix because of it's laws allowing the citizens to pass costly ballot propositions and to restrict taxes. Between anti-tax law and order conservatives and social spending liberals, the state has found a lethal combination:

    TheStar.com | Business | California nightmare

    Since a successful 1994 ballot measure calling for a "three-strikes" sentencing policy, California's $13 billion tab for prisons has come to exceed what the state spends on higher education.A voter-approved ballot initiative expanded state health-care eligibility to children and low-income women, accounting for $2.9 billion of the current shortfall. Voters have secured limits on university tuition hikes; approved bond issues for scores of new highways, parks, zoos, beaches and community swimming pools; and insisted on high minimum spending on everything from roads to environmental protection.

    But Californians have also resisted funding these expenditures except through mounting debt. A fierce anti-tax tradition dates back to the infamous Proposition 13 of 1978, which not only capped property taxes, but imposed a permanent requirement of a two-thirds supermajority of legislative votes to approve any tax increase. California is the only state with such a gridlock-inducing measure. It currently holds a heavily Democratic-controlled legislature hostage to a small but determined anti-tax GOP minority.
  10. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    And the biggest problem is the non productive society is growing while the productive society is moving out. I don't know what will happen but I'll just keep voting against more taxes. I don't reap the benefits nor feel the pain of the up and down as I live in the desert so we don't have the massive property inflation or deflation. I can retire in 14 years then we'll likely get the hell out of here.
  11. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    If you actually think RAISING taxes across the board and making gov't even bigger, then you're not as smart as I thought you were.

    Do you even care at all what percent of your income you pay in taxes each year Patters?
  12. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I have lived in several European countries, some where I paid higher taxes and some where I paid lower taxes. I think we get a lot of value for our tax dollars here. I think those who complain about taxes take all the benefits this country offers for granted. That does not mean there's no waste. I'm all for making programs more efficient and more effective, and even getting rid of programs we don't need.

    But, really, what services that the government provides are you willing to give up?
  13. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Common sense...that's "COMMON SENSE"... tells us that when you're in trouble financially, you C-U-T spending first. You look at areas where you can STOP spending, others where you can reduce it and then if you really, REALLY must, you attempt to raise revenues.

    ANY country that taxes at a 90% level is idiotic. Can you tell us what kind of tax you're referring to with this 90% crap. Who on earth would even work if they had to give 90% of what they earned to the gov't?

    Remember Patters, by an over-whelming majority, Americans do NOT want to change to a socialistic system. We do NOT want MORE give-aways or programs to help "the less fortunate".
  14. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    I would LOVE to see a list of the 100's of thousands of programs to receive federal $$ and then I'll tell you which ones we don't NEED. That would be easy!
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's a hypothesis on your part. While I'm sure there's waste and corruption in government, there's no reason to believe it's any greater than waste and corruption in private enterprise, especially given the fact that government is vastly more transparent than private enterprise. This blind belief that government employees are somehow more dishonest than private sector employees is absurd. It makes no rational sense, IMO.
  16. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Do you pay your income tax at the voluntary higher rate? Maybe if more of the ultra liberal, Kennnedy voting tax payers did that they wouldn't have to raise our taxes to pay for the governor's new Cadillac or new signs with his name on it. Or the 1000s of other things they waste our tax dollars on. I'm so glad I live on Live Free or Die state border. As a matter of fact [errr someone I know] spent close to a grand up there this weekend. And Taxachussets gets 0.0% and no deposits on the cans :D These bone heads just made it more attractive for people even further into the state to travel up there. Well done.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  17. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I could care less if the governor gets a new Cadillac. Being governor is an important job and comes with rather low pay given the responsibilities, but at least it comes up with nice perks. On the other hand, those private companies entrusted with the money of millions of people, but who also depend on government to assure the stability of that money, pay exorbitant salaries that should be regulated through progressive income taxes. If Duval Patrick gets $50k in perks, that's nothing compared to the tens of millions of dollars some CEOs get for running failed companies. I don't hold private enterprise or public institutions sacrosanct, and believe that taxes, spending, deficits, etc. are simply tools to manage the economy, since capitalism occasionally takes us on a bumpy ride.
  18. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    If you ever saw the details of the federal budget you'd drop dead. Wouldn't matter if you are 25 years old and a marathon runner. Your heart wouldn't be able to withstand it. Even the "watch dog" of the National Budget "doesn't know" how much money is being given out, or to whom. We're getting real close to "re-set" time, folks.



    //
  19. Michael

    Michael Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Of course you don't. Again feel free to pay as much as you want. I want to pay less. Since I get very little for my tax dollars as is. They'll steal more from us at the registers, the pumps, right from our income and the roads will still be a disaster.
  20. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    .


    How 'bout them toll roads!! The Mass Pike. "Going to paid it off in 20 years, no problems." -- Mass Dem government, 1968



    //
  21. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You get the same things as I get for our tax dollars, but apparently take it for granted. Next time you take a prescription drug, go out to eat, do some cooking, turn on your heat, buy gas, go for a drive, visit a beach, go hiking, take a drink of water, go to the bank, etc., think about the role that your taxes play in those things. I could easily add dozens of items to the list.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2009
  22. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Rookie

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    Some people forget this country is supposed to run in accordance with the will of the majority. That's what "Democratic" means. Those who desire bigger gov't and more taxes are far from being a majority.

    Obama has to be very, very careful moving forward.
  23. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, overwhelming majorities favor national health care and other polls basically show that people would like lower taxes but not fewer services. I'd like that too.
  24. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    No they don't. Majorities favor UNIVERSAL health care, not NATIONAL health care.
  25. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually, I think national health care is the correct phrase, at least according to Wikipedia.

    National health insurance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    "National health insurance is health insurance that insures a national population for the costs of health care and usually is instituted as a program of healthcare reform. It may be administered by the public sector, the private sector, or a combination of both."
  26. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I don't care what Wikipedia says or a better source - coverage of everyone is generally thought of as "Universal Health Care". Using the word National brings the connotation of it being nationalized/socialized/single payer.

    FWIW I'm against Nationalized and Universal. Just because you can breath doesn't give you the right to top medicine anymore than it gives you the right to a car or a house.
  27. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Hey Patters, GF....nevermind.

    I honestly hope gubmits of all kind go bankrupt in my lifetime. Nickel and dimed to death is what we are. Then mentally challenged souls like Patters....nevermind. Meanwhile workers at the T still enjoy a 23 years of service full pension, and cops are raking in $150-200k a year. Nice! Wait till all the illegals are rubber stamped boys and girls, cuz you ain't seen nothing yet.

    A 5% tax on satelite TV? What a joke. This country is in serious trouble. At some point the taxpayers, the back bone of this country, are going to take action. I sure as hell hope that's soon.
  28. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You base your view on a handful of people who managed to beat the system. Of course, the government needs to prevent such abuses, but those kinds of abuses exist in the private sector as well. At least in government, it's doesn't take a financial crisis to find those abuses, since the records are fairly open, unlike in the private sector.

    They should just raise the income tax. That's the fairest way.

    Most taxpayers like this country and don't take for granted all the services the government provides. You perhaps think that God laid down the roads himself, cleans your water, gives the dollar its value, and protects our nation. But, actually we pay for those things with taxes.
  29. NEPatriot

    NEPatriot Banned

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    We don't work for the government because it works for us. Which part of "we,the people'....." constitution the liberals don't understand?

    Have you ever wanted to take a vacation or buy a house at the beach or send your kids to college or help your beloved one? Of course, you have. Guess what?

    You will never have an America dream or your dream if all you do is to accomplish Obama's dream.

    I'd rather be rich than broke and I'd rather be smart than stupid. It's sad that liberals use the 'patriot' game to denounce people who don't want to be Obama's slaves for the rest of their life.

    If being 'patriot' means that i'll support Obama for his socialism and communism, i don't want to be patriot. If you are willing to pay a 'small' new tax, why don't you pay for me too because i don't want to share your 'change' bills?

    In America, it's not about 'patriotism' but stupidity.
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2009
  30. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    we are in a crisis because the government is inept.......they need more money because they can't get it done with the ridiculous amount of $$ they are already screwing the general public out of

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